Sunday21 Posted August 28, 2017 Report Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) A website that provides answers to scholarly questions about the lds faith Once you have looked over the website, https://www.fairmormon.org/ You can post questions https://www.fairmormon.org/contact Edited August 28, 2017 by Sunday21 Happy Hiker, Snigmorder and NeedleinA 3 Quote
Snigmorder Posted August 28, 2017 Report Posted August 28, 2017 One of my favorite FAIR conference presentations recently re-posted. Sunday21 and Happy Hiker 2 Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 9 hours ago, Sunday21 said: A website that provides answers to scholarly questions about the lds faith Once you have looked over the website, https://www.fairmormon.org/ You can post questions https://www.fairmormon.org/contact Just as long as we remember they are no different than this very forum- a collection of ideas, opinions, and biased interpretations that doesnt really honestly coincide or agree with actual LDS official doctrine on all topics. Quote
Snigmorder Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 10 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: Just as long as we remember they are no different than this very forum- a collection of ideas, opinions, and biased interpretations that doesnt really honestly coincide or agree with actual LDS official doctrine on all topics. Official church doctrine has nothing to do with the research of FARMS and FAIR. Official church doctrine does not explain the Kinderhook plates, for example. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Snigmorder said: Official church doctrine has nothing to do with the research of FARMS and FAIR. Official church doctrine does not explain the Kinderhook plates, for example. Im just saying that some people tend to think that places like FAIR is some kind of standard for defining LDS doctrine. FAIR is no different than the opinions and beliefs on this forum. Quote
Snigmorder Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said: Im just saying that some people tend to think that places like FAIR is some kind of standard for defining LDS doctrine. FAIR is no different than the opinions and beliefs on this forum. Definitely, I agree. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Snigmorder said: Definitely, I agree. Its kind of interesting that even on the FAIR blog I get censored if they dont like my comments. At least in here I have never been censored. So, in reality, this forum is more balanced for dialoguing and finding truth than FAIR! Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said: Its kind of interesting that even on the FAIR blog I get censored if they dont like my comments. At least in here I have never been censored. So, in reality, this forum is more balanced for dialoguing and finding truth than FAIR! I forget where I heard this, but I remember reading someone in the internet world that FAIR is sort of censorious. . Sorry that happened to you bud. Quote
Snigmorder Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said: Its kind of interesting that even on the FAIR blog I get censored if they dont like my comments. At least in here I have never been censored. So, in reality, this forum is more balanced for dialoguing and finding truth than FAIR! Do you have anything to say about FAIR's apologetic work? Because that's how I see FAIR, they're about apologetics, not doctrine. If I were to come across your comment, I would conclude that you find their apologetic arguments "unbalanced and untruthful." Sunday21 1 Quote
anatess2 Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 58 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said: Its kind of interesting that even on the FAIR blog I get censored if they dont like my comments. At least in here I have never been censored. So, in reality, this forum is more balanced for dialoguing and finding truth than FAIR! I don't think it's a matter of liking your comments but more like your comments don't align with revealed truths. We've said that here about some of your beliefs too. FAIR censors those. Basically, they can opine and extrapolate but these still can't conflict with revealed truths as taught by the LDS Church. Jane_Doe and Sunday21 2 Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 1 hour ago, anatess2 said: I don't think it's a matter of liking your comments but more like your comments don't align with revealed truths. We've said that here about some of your beliefs too. FAIR censors those. Basically, they can opine and extrapolate but these still can't conflict with revealed truths as taught by the LDS Church. Nice conjecture on your part but the areas I was censored dealt with one opinion verses my opinion. Thanks anyway, I dont really like FAIR. Im not a big fan of places that try to establish some kind of heirarchy on establishing or defending truth. If they were truly unbiased it would be one thing but with their biases just forget it. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Snigmorder said: Do you have anything to say about FAIR's apologetic work? Because that's how I see FAIR, they're about apologetics, not doctrine. If I were to come across your comment, I would conclude that you find their apologetic arguments "unbalanced and untruthful." You will find more truth searching these forums than FAIR. Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said: Nice conjecture on your part but the areas I was censored dealt with one opinion verses my opinion. Thanks anyway, I dont really like FAIR. Im not a big fan of places that try to establish some kind of heirarchy on establishing or defending truth. If they were truly unbiased it would be one thing but with their biases just forget it. Just curious, are you "not a fan of FAIR" because they dared to censor you? Quote
Snigmorder Posted August 29, 2017 Report Posted August 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said: You will find more truth searching these forums than FAIR. What's FAIR's most untruthful argument or claim? Quote
Sunday21 Posted August 29, 2017 Author Report Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Hi @NeedleinA! How are you? Edited August 29, 2017 by Sunday21 Quote
anatess2 Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: Nice conjecture on your part but the areas I was censored dealt with one opinion verses my opinion. Thanks anyway, I dont really like FAIR. Im not a big fan of places that try to establish some kind of heirarchy on establishing or defending truth. If they were truly unbiased it would be one thing but with their biases just forget it. Biases? In what way? Because if it's an LDS bias that would be a, well duh. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, MormonGator said: Just curious, are you "not a fan of FAIR" because they dared to censor you? I really dont like forums and blogs that censor folks when it doesnt work in their favor. When I ran my own blog I didnt censor anyone unless they started swearing or linking to bad sites. FAIR have a particular writing style that I do not like. I feel they are misleading and when you try to point it out to them to clarify a point they just censor you or ignore you. Or worse- they throw out an opinion or piece and turn off comments intentionally. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 7 hours ago, Snigmorder said: What's FAIR's most untruthful argument or claim? Well, I have tried to dialogue with them about Book of Mormon claims such as the geography to no avail. But the place for me where the rubber meets the road is this series of events- the creation, the fall, the flood in that order. FAIR is in opposition to what the church teaches and its critisism is directed at the church. There is no apologetics of defending official church doctrine because they refuse to acknowledge that the church really does have an official position. FAIR, is too caught up in secular understanding to properly and truly defend LDS doctrine. Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 1 hour ago, anatess2 said: Biases? In what way? Because if it's an LDS bias that would be a, well duh. They do not defend the true stance of the church in many areas. For example, its a well recognized fact that the church officially recognizes the Hill Cumorah in New York as the same Hill Cumorah from the Book of Mormon where great and final wars occured. FAIR does not recognize this and instead try to argue it is not the same hill. Quote
NeedleinA Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 20 hours ago, Sunday21 said: Hi @NeedleinA! How are you? Doing spectacular Sunday! Swamped with work, but doing great. Thanks for asking. Hopefully the same for you! Sunday21, zil and Vort 3 Quote
Guest MormonGator Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: I really dont like forums and blogs that censor folks when it doesnt work in their favor. When I ran my own blog I didnt censor anyone unless they started swearing or linking to bad sites. FAIR have a particular writing style that I do not like. I feel they are misleading and when you try to point it out to them to clarify a point they just censor you or ignore you. Or worse- they throw out an opinion or piece and turn off comments intentionally. You sound like a 5th grader who is mad at the teacher because she doesn't let him do whatever he wants to in class. Edited August 30, 2017 by MormonGator Quote
Grunt Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 Their site, their rules. Backroads and Sunday21 2 Quote
Rob Osborn Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MormonGator said: You sound like a 5th grader who is mad at the teacher because she doesn't let him do whatever he wants to in class. No, one would think that a place of such esteem and substance would be more in harmony with God and not secularism. Edited August 30, 2017 by Rob Osborn Quote
prisonchaplain Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 On 8/29/2017 at 11:11 AM, Rob Osborn said: Im just saying that some people tend to think that places like FAIR is some kind of standard for defining LDS doctrine. FAIR is no different than the opinions and beliefs on this forum. Outsider perspective: LDS.net is a gathering site for mostly well-educated LDS who want to bounce around ideas, scenarios, and general opinions--with an eye towards a greater audience that include non-LDS, like myself. It can be a good starting place for the curious-to-investigator, who wants a "feel" for what many LDS think. FAIR is an apologetics organization, with some strong academic backing. As such, I would hold their answers with a "fair" amount of trust. Some of their members/representatives are faculty and LDS institutions. In the same manner, if I wanted to find out about Catholicism, without actually going to a parish or official Catholic source, groups like Catholic Answers gives some pretty clear responses (plus they speak Evangelical--as do some at FAIR). Of course--1000X of course! -- LDS.org has the official answers. Mormon.org can get me into chat with actual missionaries. The local bishop is an easy find. BUT, I tend to give apologists high regard. Hey, Ravi Zacharias is an Evangelical apologist, and he even spoke at the LDS Tabernacle. Sunday21 1 Quote
Vort Posted August 30, 2017 Report Posted August 30, 2017 16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: Well, I have tried to dialogue with them about Book of Mormon claims such as the geography to no avail. But the place for me where the rubber meets the road is this series of events- the creation, the fall, the flood in that order. FAIR is in opposition to what the church teaches and its critisism is directed at the church. There is no apologetics of defending official church doctrine because they refuse to acknowledge that the church really does have an official position. I disbelieve this, but am willing to be educated. Please provide the details on the Church's "official position" regarding the Creation, the Fall, and the Atonement that is rejected by FAIR. 16 hours ago, Rob Osborn said: They do not defend the true stance of the church in many areas. For example, its a well recognized fact that the church officially recognizes the Hill Cumorah in New York as the same Hill Cumorah from the Book of Mormon where great and final wars occured. This is false. There is no such "official recognition", any more than the Church "officially recognizes" that Jesus was born April 6, 1 BC. zil and MrShorty 2 Quote
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