Church donates to Affirmation

[NeuroTypical]

Interesting stuff like this just keeps on a-coming.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/faith/affirmation-group-receives-first-ever-grant-of-from-lds-foundation/article_4cb4ada0-9b3a-5290-ba17-f17312c9ad60.html

 

Quote

In what is being called historic by leaders with the group Affirmation: LGBTQ Mormons, Families & Friends, the LDS Foundation has approved at $25,000 grant to help with suicide prevention.
...
For the first time, Affirmation leaders representing diverse spiritual perspectives, sexual orientations, gender identities, and cultural backgrounds — including native Spanish and Portuguese speakers — will be trained to become certified suicide prevention trainers by one of the leading suicide prevention training institutes, QPR.
...
In February, Affirmation approached LDS Public Affairs to request funding for the QPR trainings. They asked for $21,000.

At the end of April, the LDS Foundation awarded Affirmation a grant in the amount of $25,000, exceeding the full amount requested.

...

Tuesday night, LDS Public Affairs released the following statement via a church spokesperson, “We are committed to working with community partners to help prevent suicide and hope this contribution will support this important cause. We are mindful of those who are struggling and encourage them to reach out for help.”

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

On 7/11/2018 at 11:14 AM, NeuroTypical said:

“We are committed to working with community partners to help prevent suicide and hope this contribution will support this important cause. We are mindful of those who are struggling and encourage them to reach out for help.”

I love this.  I don't think either side of this issue should read any more into this than exactly what was said above.  I think this is about helping prevent suicides, and that is awesome, however you look at it.  

[estradling75]

16 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I love this.  I don't think either side of this issue should read any more into this than exactly what was said above.  I think this is about helping prevent suicides, and that is awesome, however you look at it.  

Indeed... it should surprise no one that the church is against suicide

[Sunday21]

Yeah! Glad that we are building bridges. A good cause.

[Just_A_Guy]

Ha!

Crazy like a fox, are we.

[Lost Boy]

20 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Ha!

Crazy like a fox, are we.

So the group requests the grant and then when the grant is given and then some, the VP of the group resigns on moral grounds....  Maybe she should have resigned when the group initially made the request.  Tad be crazy I say.

[Just_A_Guy]

5 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

So the group requests the grant and then when the grant is given and then some, the VP of the group resigns on moral grounds....  Maybe she should have resigned when the group initially made the request.  Tad be crazy I say.

I’m betting she was hoping the Church would say “no” and that they could use it for more PR.  And it makes me wonder how many others in the Affirmation gang were thinking the same way.

[NeuroTypical]

Huh.  The church's financial support, and the loud resignation of a very outspoken critic of the church.  Two things that say something when you read between the lines. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

7 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Huh.  The church's financial support, and the loud resignation of a very outspoken critic of the church.  Two things that say something when you read between the lines. 

What do you mean?  Sincere question.

[NeuroTypical]

From where I'm standing from my citadel of skepticism, genuine efforts to bridge gaps and find common ground are rare.  Most of the time, one side or the other is pushing their agenda, and spinning things as "look at us being all noble and bridging the gap and compromising and meeting halfway and stuff".    I don't know anything about the Affirmation org, other than what I read in the news.  And much of that news is spun by Affirmation.

So now there are two data points you don't often see: 1) The church is giving real money to a group that supports, in some ways, lifestyles not in accordance to church wishes and hopes.   2) A more vocal opponent of the church, vocally leaves the group.  Like, ranting on her way out.

I have cautious hope that Affirmation's suicide prevention efforts may indeed be a good and noble thing.  I certainly hope so.

Edited July 19, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

9 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

I’m betting she

You forgot the quotation marks.

[Just_A_Guy]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I  have cautious hope that Affirmation's suicide prevention efforts may indeed be a good and noble thing.  I certainly hope so.

From what I gather, it wasn’t a direct cash grant.  The Church basically said “choose some of your people to get some specialized suicide prevention training, and we’ll foot the bill for the training”.  

This made me feel better about the donation; because frankly—I think a lot of people in Affirmation (not everyone, but a lot) secretly like gay Mormon suicides; because they find them politically useful.  Heaven knows, it’s not the conservatives who are telling gay Mormon kids that the value of their lives is contingent on their ability to have a fulfilling sex life.

[NeuroTypical]

17 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

From what I gather, it wasn’t a direct cash grant.  The Church basically said “choose some of your people to get some specialized suicide prevention training, and we’ll foot the bill for the training”.  

Yep, absolutely.  That's the backbone of the church's fast offerings program also - we don't give people money.  We pay a bill, we cover an expense.  My weekly gig as a finance clerk is reminding people to bring the receipt or the quote - that's how the church writes checks.

We can probably find exceptions where we do a direct cash grant to this disaster aid agency or that nonprofit.  But I'm thinking the norm is to cover specific expenses.

Edited July 20, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

9 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

From where I'm standing from my citadel of skepticism, genuine efforts to bridge gaps and find common ground are rare.  Most of the time, one side or the other is pushing their agenda, and spinning things as "look at us being all noble and bridging the gap and compromising and meeting halfway and stuff".    I don't know anything about the Affirmation org, other than what I read in the news.  And much of that news is spun by Affirmation.

Thanks this is helpful.  

[lostinwater]

11 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This made me feel better about the donation; because frankly—I think a lot of people in Affirmation (not everyone, but a lot) secretly like gay Mormon suicides; because they find them politically useful.  

i really hope, in the early and introspective hours of the day, you don't still actually believe this.  i mean, if one believes this sort of thing about the person who disagrees with them - that they are such a person as that - then i fear for the future of all of us.  

[Just_A_Guy]

21 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

i really hope, in the early and introspective hours of the day, you don't still actually believe this.  i mean, if one believes this sort of thing about the person who disagrees with them - that they are such a person as that - then i fear for the future of all of us.  

I do.  I base it on the way I have seen some Affirmation members deal with gay Mormons who announce their intention to remain celibate:

”Well, it’s your choice, of course.  But gee, that doesn’t sound fulfilling.  Do you think it’d be fulfilling?  I don’t think it would be fulfilling to go through life alone.  Aren’t you afraid of being alone?  I don’t know how I’d find meaning, or even live.  How do you find meaning, or live?  I just couldn’t do it.  Could you do it?  I don’t know how you can do it.  Are you sure you can do it?  Really sure?  I think I’d kill myself.  Don’t you think about killing yourself?  ‘Cause you know your church is saying you have no worth alive.  I don’t know how you do it, you poor, poor dear . . .”

It’s a familiar tactic to those of us who have read Othello.  And the ultimate questions are:  who ghoulishly tries to use these suicides for political gain?  And which side has significant players in a major huff because the LDS Church is now donating resources that are calculated to reduce the number of gay Mormon suicides?

Sorry, @lostinwater; but major subsets of this group are playing for keeps; and they don’t care who they hurt in the process.  The sooner we understand that, the more accurately we can plan for what’s coming.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

It’s a familiar tactic to those of us who have read Othello.  

You always reminded me of Iago. 

[Just_A_Guy]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

You always reminded me of Iago. 

There’s a big surprise!  That’s an incredib—I think I’m gonna have a heart attack and die, of not surprise—

(Oh, you’re referring to a different Iago . . .)

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Just_A_Guy said:

There’s a big surprise!  That’s an incredib—I think I’m gonna have a heart attack and die, of not surprise—

(Oh, you’re referring to a different Iago . . .)

lol! That's awesome. lol 

[lostinwater]

7 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Sorry, @lostinwater; but major subsets of this group are playing for keeps; and they don’t care who they hurt in the process.  The sooner we understand that, the more accurately we can plan for what’s coming.

i know some of these people.  You're wrong about them.

And it's also true that i think they are wrong about you.  i didn't use to think so, but getting to know the people on this forum, i have seen that they are.

[NeuroTypical]

 

51 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

12 hours ago, Just_A_Guy said:

This made me feel better about the donation; because frankly—I think a lot of people in Affirmation (not everyone, but a lot) secretly like gay Mormon suicides; because they find them politically useful.  

i really hope, in the early and introspective hours of the day, you don't still actually believe this.  i mean, if one believes this sort of thing about the person who disagrees with them - that they are such a person as that - then i fear for the future of all of us.  

 

Remember this thread and the poster changed?  I don't know if changed liked hearing news of glbtqxyz mormon suicides, but she sure the heck didn't even wait for the bodies to cool off before using the deaths as fodder for the points she was trying to make.

https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/63999-3rd-hour-meeting-on-fostering-love-with-members-of-the-lgbtq-community/?do=findComment&comment=954140

Edited July 20, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[Just_A_Guy]

22 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

i know some of these people.  You're wrong about them.

Given that you and I have both used the word “some”, I hope we are talking about different subsets of the gay-rights movement.

But to deny that either of those subsets exists, would demand that one or both of us ignore the evidence before our own eyes:

Edited July 20, 2018 by Just_A_Guy

[lostinwater]

1 minute ago, NeuroTypical said:

Remember this thread and the poster changed?  I don't know if changed liked hearing news of gay mormon suicides, but she sure the heck didn't even wait for the bodies to cool off before using the deaths as fodder for the points she was trying to make.

 https://mormonhub.com/forums/topic/63999-3rd-hour-meeting-on-fostering-love-with-members-of-the-lgbtq-community/?do=findComment&comment=954140

Thanks.

That's possible.  Or another way of looking at it might be that they really didn't want any more bodies to have to cool off.

And regardless, to take the motive one assumes gave birth to the actions of one person and then assume that the same motive gives birth to every other similar action.  i just don't know about that one.

And for the record, i don't like weaponized compassion either.  But i'd just make sure you meet and talk with a person before impugning a negative intent.  And even when it is there, i've found that indignation people use to justify anger is a very thin shell that is remarkably easy to crack.

[lostinwater]

3 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

Given that you and I have both used the word “some”, I hope we are talking about different subsets of the gay-rights movement.

But to deny that either of those subsets exists, would demand that one or both of us ignore the evidence before our own eyes:

Someone said once that when you have met one person of a movement, you have met exactly one person of that movement.  i've found this to be true - even though i don't always act like it...  OK, ok.  i almost never act like it.   

i certainly acknowledge that there are bigoted kinds of actions on both sides. 

Though i think underneath those bigoted actions are just people who are looking for the same things, but in different places, and by different means.  And from what i've seen of the people on both sides, a bit of listening and understanding is about the only thing that serves any positive purpose.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, lostinwater said:

Though i think underneath those bigoted actions are just people who are looking for the same things, but in different places, and by different means.  And from what i've seen of the people on both sides, a bit of listening and understanding is about the only thing that serves any positive purpose.

It always makes me smh when I hear this kind of sentiment... I mean, really - listening and understanding is a given.  Nobody with good intentions ever goes into anything saying, "I'm not going to listen nor understand".  This is not the issue.  The issue is that people don't have good intentions - and those are the people who will not listen nor understand and they create movements that attract good intentioned people.

Edited July 20, 2018 by anatess2