More drama from June Hughes/Mckenna Denson

[MarginOfError]

3 hours ago, AlbanyNYLDS said:

This whole Mckenna thing smacks of dishonesty to me.  If what she said happened truly did happen, then she would have reported it straightaway.  The fact that she waited decades says a lot, at least to me.  I'm tired of these women coming forward decades later and making claims that can ruin a man's life, and they can do so with NO evidence.  Just their say-so.  Silly me, I thought people were entitled to a trial before being found guilty.  But no, now it's all about "believe her."  That cannot stand when a man's life hangs in the balance.

I can understand that sometimes, some men will exercise unrighteous dominion over a woman, but if abuse happens, then if a "victim" is truly a victim, then she will come forward immediately.   Simple as that.

There is a large body of evidence that shows that women don't come forward when the abuse happens because of a variety of reasons. These range from fear of being blamed, blaming themselves for being in a situation to be assaulted, not wanting to admit that it happened, and even fear of being blamed. 

You don't have to like the situation, you don't have to believe her. But to claim, "if it really happened, then they would have reported it right away" is dead wrong. Anyone who believes and perpetuates that idea is insufficiently educated in matters of abuse to have an opinion worth listening to.

[SpiritDragon]

3 hours ago, AlbanyNYLDS said:

This whole Mckenna thing smacks of dishonesty to me.  If what she said happened truly did happen, then she would have reported it straightaway.  The fact that she waited decades says a lot, at least to me.  I'm tired of these women coming forward decades later and making claims that can ruin a man's life, and they can do so with NO evidence.  Just their say-so.  Silly me, I thought people were entitled to a trial before being found guilty.  But no, now it's all about "believe her."  That cannot stand when a man's life hangs in the balance.

I can understand that sometimes, some men will exercise unrighteous dominion over a woman, but if abuse happens, then if a "victim" is truly a victim, then she will come forward immediately.   Simple as that.

13 minutes ago, MarginOfError said:

There is a large body of evidence that shows that women don't come forward when the abuse happens because of a variety of reasons. These range from fear of being blamed, blaming themselves for being in a situation to be assaulted, not wanting to admit that it happened, and even fear of being blamed. 

You don't have to like the situation, you don't have to believe her. But to claim, "if it really happened, then they would have reported it right away" is dead wrong. Anyone who believes and perpetuates that idea is insufficiently educated in matters of abuse to have an opinion worth listening to.

 

It's true that not all victims of this type of crime will come forward quickly or even at all. I personally know one young lady who was raped while in high school, She does not know that I know, but someone close to both of us that she disclosed the incident to confided in me at a later date. The victim was insistent that especially her parents could never know because they would never her let go out and do anything again. To my knowledge nearly 20 years later her parents still don't know and no legal charges have ever come forward. I doubt they ever will.

That being said, I can appreciate the frustration of sexual misconduct allegations that certainly appear to have been weaponized in recent years more than I ever recall in the past. Maybe it's simply because all white males with a Christian or Conservative/Republican background are just scummy, but having know many such men personally I find that conclusion hard to believe. In that, I absolutely agree, it gets more than a little tiring to hear allegations thrown out at such men when it seems the motives are disingenuous to seeking justice and all about pushing an agenda. The Mckenna case seems much more believable to me than others that have taken place in the political theatre over the last couple of years with the Kavanaugh allegations being suspect at this time. I just wish it didn't seem like her motive is to attack the church. Other allegations seem so suspect because of the timing always lining up with political campaigns and so on. In fact, I find it even more so suspect in these cases when suddenly multiple women start coming forward for the simple reason that I can appreciate how one of them might not have said anything, but for multiple women to suddenly start coming forward with the same serious but tired story every time a political or ideological opponent is gaining ground is just getting to be too much and it bothers me because it makes true victims less likely to be believed and less likely to come forward.

This is not to say that all of the allegations are false either, simply that our current environment around it makes it low hanging fruit to attack with and these men seem to automatically be guilty in the court of public opinion which when it comes to politics is the court that possibly matters the most.

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, AlbanyNYLDS said:

I can understand that sometimes, some men will exercise unrighteous dominion over a woman, but if abuse happens, then if a "victim" is truly a victim, then she will come forward immediately.   Simple as that.

Yeah, this opinion belongs in the trash bin of history, not darkening the light of the 21st century.  You might want to do some reading up on things, AlbanyYLDS.  Here's a good place to start, complete with links to sources.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180926-myths-about-sexual-assault-and-rape-debunked

Edited September 30, 2018 by NeuroTypical

[ztodd]

That artcle says that in England, Wales, and Australia, "about one in every five women has experienced sexual violence at least once in their lifetime", and that in the U.S., it's estimated that "one in five women" have been raped... but something that's kind of funny (given that this is a very serious subject) is that right after that, they show a picture of women holding signs that say "My mentor stuck his hand down my shirt", and "my boss asked me to put on a bikini". 

I want to assume that picture has nothing to do with the definition of "rape" that the previous statistic is referencing.  Sure hope that's a safe assumption.

But the label of the picture talks about "sexual assault"-- so it appears they're trying to say those things have to do with the definition of "assault" at least.  In the case of the boss asking an employee to put on a bikini- not sure I'd agree with that.  Maybe if he threatened to fire her if she didn't? and it's a credible threat? perhaps, but still might should only reach the level of "harassment".

Anyway, I was just looking for something to pick on in the article, to play devil's advocate.  Heh

I better go on record at this point to say, all forms of harassment or assault are very wrong.  All are evil acts.

Edited October 1, 2018 by ztodd

[pwrfrk]

On 9/26/2018 at 11:23 AM, NeuroTypical said:

I see Vort and I were basically typing the same answer.  Here's mine: 

Here are ways I see it could be:

Denson has mental issues and is troubled and wrong, and Bishop did something horrible and wrong.
Denson is lying and untrustworthy, and Bishop did something horrible and wrong.
Denson was a predator herself back in those days, and Bishop did something horrible and wrong.
Denson was troubled but trying really hard to turn over a new leaf and live a good life, and Bishop did something horrible and wrong.

No matter what Denson's story, no matter who she was back then and who she is now, I honestly don't see any scenario where Bishop didn't do something horrible and wrong.  We've got enough to reach that as a reasonable conclusion.  Now, what that horrible thing is, is very much in dispute. We peanut gallery people may never know for sure. Nobody may ever know.  Bishop is aging and possibly in the early stages of dementia.  Denson seems bent on never missing an opportunity to damage her own credibility.  She has changed her story so many times, it has so many holes in it, that she just isn't believable any more.  It's not like there were hidden cameras back then recording the event. 

But yeah, we need to come to grips with one of our leaders did something horrible and wrong, while he was one of our leaders.  It happens with us humans sometimes.  If we can't admit that, we need to figure out why not, and fix ourselves.

Let's say a prostitute goes to church.  Is it ok to do anything improper to her because she's a prostitute?  Is it ok to sexually assault her?  Is it ok to rape her?  After all, she IS a prostitute, right? 

With that inquiry aside, this is a perfect example of why I refuse to apologize for anything I might be accused of.  I have been told before to just apologize and let it go, even if I did nothing.  But, this case, as I said, is a perfect example.  If you apologize, no matter how you word it, it still comes out as you apologizing for something you did, even if you didn't do it.  As just_a_guy said "...The essence of penitence is accountability."  If you show penitence, you accept responsibility. 

[MarginOfError]

3 hours ago, pwrfrk said:

Let's say a prostitute goes to church.  Is it ok to do anything improper to her because she's a prostitute?  Is it ok to sexually assault her?  Is it ok to rape her?  After all, she IS a prostitute, right? 

With that inquiry aside, this is a perfect example of why I refuse to apologize for anything I might be accused of.  I have been told before to just apologize and let it go, even if I did nothing.  But, this case, as I said, is a perfect example.  If you apologize, no matter how you word it, it still comes out as you apologizing for something you did, even if you didn't do it.  As just_a_guy said "...The essence of penitence is accountability."  If you show penitence, you accept responsibility. 

Haeh? This seems like an unhinged rant.  Seriously, I can't figure out how those two paragraphs are supposed to fit together.

[Searching]

 

Interesting trend on who is claiming to be victims...

Edited October 5, 2018 by Searching

[Vort]

On 10/1/2018 at 1:52 AM, pwrfrk said:

If you apologize, no matter how you word it, it still comes out as you apologizing for something you did, even if you didn't do it.  As just_a_guy said "...The essence of penitence is accountability."  If you show penitence, you accept responsibility.

Your post was not really coherent. Something about raping a prostitute. So I did not understand what you were saying or why you were saying it, or what the ultimate point was. But the three sentences above I did understand, and I agree with them. Can you imagine Jesus Christ apologizing for something he didn't do? I'm all for taking responsibility for what you do, but I'm also all for refusing to accept responsibility for what you didn't do. That's one reason I have not the least little shred of White Guilt. (Another reason is that I possess an IQ in excess of 90.)

[Guest MormonGator]

12 minutes ago, Vort said:

 (Another reason is that I possess an IQ in excess of 40.)

Fixed it for you. 

[Vort]

17 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Fixed it for you. 

(...news flash...90>40, so if X>90, it's axiomatic that X>40...but thanks for the effort...)

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, Vort said:

(...news flash...90>40, so if X>90, it's axiomatic that X>40...but thanks for the effort...)

breaking news: @Vort is stupid. 
(just playing bud) 

Edited October 5, 2018 by MormonGator

[Vort]

1 minute ago, MormonGator said:

breaking news: @Vort is stupid. 

I think you need to look up the definition of "news"...

[zil]

Just now, MormonGator said:

just playing bud

For Halloween:

 

[The Folk Prophet]

@zil got a lot punier since I was last super active in the forums.

[zil]

16 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

@zil got a lot punier since I was last super active in the forums.

No, no, that's how @MormonGator is "just playing (a) bud (aka flower)".

[Vort]

29 minutes ago, zil said:

No, no, that's how @MormonGator is "just playing (a) bud (aka flower)".

Specifically, Maui Wowie.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Vort said:

Specifically, Maui Wowie.

Actually, when @zil talks about "bud" I thought she was talking about our private stash of "special" plants that we got from @NeuroTypical as a treat in honor of his home state. 

But anyway...

[zil]

Just now, MormonGator said:

Actually, when @zil talks about "bud" I thought she was talking about our private stash of "special" plants that we got from @NeuroTypical as a treat in honor of his home state. 

But anyway...

You're not supposed to talk about that publicly, dude. :SMH:

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, zil said:

You're not supposed to talk about that publicly, dude. :SMH:

Good thing I didn't mention those magazines you keep in your room young lady. 

No more secrets! It's all coming out! 

[zil]

3 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Good thing I didn't mention those magazines you keep in your room young lady. 

No more secrets! It's all coming out! 

Have you been talking to the bishop's wife?

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, zil said:

Have you been talking to the bishop's wife?

yes, but I told her the compound is full at the moment. She seemed devastated. 

[zil]

7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Good thing I didn't mention those magazines you keep in your room young lady. 

I have nothing to hide:

[Vort]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

yes, but I told her the compound is full at the moment. She seemed devastated. 

That one was pretty good.

[JohnsonJones]

2 hours ago, Searching said:

 

Interesting trend on who is claiming to be victims...

What I find interesting is how US citizens allow foreign individuals on talk shows influence our political process.  In fact, I'd say these individuals from Foreign nations have a FAR greater impact on our politics and political thoughts than Russian ads on facebook EVER did.  If we are going after the Russians as we have been, why in the world do we give these guys a pass.

It is OBVIOUS that they are politically inclined and are trying to influence our politics.  Is it because Liberals control the narrative in the media today and thus they may attack Russian ads on the one hand, but ignore the even GREATER and LARGER influence these foreign nations have on our political process simply because these foreign influences are pushing a liberal narrative?

Just my initial thoughts at watching the clip...which really has nothing to do with the topic...just what came out of me watching this.

[Guest MormonGator]

Just now, Vort said:

That one was pretty good.

Thanks bud. Glad someone appreciates me. 
 

1 minute ago, zil said:

I have nothing to hide:

You are being very selective here.