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Vort

Elon Musk: Where's the line?

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https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/27/news/companies/elon-musk-sec-tesla/index.html

I have long wondered about the tremendous power of the SEC. (No, not the Southeast Conference. Them, too, but I mean the Securities & Exchange Commission.) Insider trading is a serious matter, one that could potentially destroy or at least weaken the foundational idea of stock trading. So I totally get why harsh sanctions against market manipulation must be in place. And I grant that Musk's tweets might look like a hamfisted attempt at such. But I don't believe that's what actually went on. I believe that Musk was being Musk, tweeting out ideas as they occurred to him.

However that may be, how comfortable are we with the fact that a man can be permanently banned from his own company, or even deprived of liberty (as in imprisoned), because he said something that, outside of the narrow context of potential market manipulation, is obviously protected free speech, and not even particularly remarkable speech? How much are we willing to curtail free speech in order to avoid market manipulation? How much should we curtail it?

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Musk was being Musk. That said, if the SEC can prove intent to drive market share, Musk can be liable and they can take him off his business.

My opinion - Musk needs to be careful especially after expressing political opinion in the current socio-political war zone.  Nobody is safe.  Not even you or me.

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3 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Not so smart for a guy who's supposed to be smart.

Meh. Smart people doing dumb things is as common as the sun rising in the morning.

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Meanwhile, 4chan managed to tank Apple stock by billions a while ago... nobody got in trouble because they can’t identify 4chan.  I’m fairly certain a lot of people got rich off of that.  If I had listened to my kids I’d be rich now.

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1 hour ago, Godless said:

I'm not convinced that they aren't one and the same. 🤔

Ok, just some clarification for those not familiar...

4chan (also 8chan, its sophisticated sibling) is a social media site.  Posters on this site do not get profiles, rather they get auto-generated IDs for every post.  This makes every post anonymous and devoid of post history, hence 4/8chan posters are called Anons.  Computer savvy folks can, of course, identify Anons by tracing IP addresses and such but if you’re that easy to trace you should avoid 4/8chan.  It is the “downtown Detroit” of the internet.  What got 4chan attention is that sometimes, some anon gets an idea, like... “I wonder how long information can travel from my computer to Manhattan?” and so a bunch of anons reply and come up with an idea to measure it... some anon livestreams a traffic cone in front of a pizza parlor in downtown Manhattan and posts a challenge to topple the cone, 24 minutes later, the cone is toppled by some biker with a full mask.  They then conclude 4chan can affect the real world in 24 minutes (this really happened by the way).  Anyway, these missions became popular on the chans because after all is said and done, there are a bunch of anons who live in 4chan because they find it fun to troll, pull pranks, sabotage a Times Magazine poll for person of the year by making Kim Jong Un the highest vote, capture Shia Lebeauf’s “he will not divide us” flag, make a bullied boy feel better by getting his YouTube video over a million likes, find the identity of a masked antifa protester who smacked some people’s heads with a bike lock, etc. etc.  

Q is this Star Trek character or James Bond guy... but he’s not what we’re talking about.

Q is this anon on 4chan, moved to 8chan, who started posting on 4chan /pol/ forum (talks about politics) and identifying himself as Q something patriot (can’t remember anymore) eventually shortened to just Q.  Of course, Q can be one person or a group of people or some 13-year-old pimply homeschooled punk playing war games on his computer.  Anybody replying to Q posts are called Qanons to distinguish them from regular anons.  Q claims to be a White House insider with high level clearance.  Q posts cryptic messages and Qanons go and “follow the white rabbit” researching these messages to come up with the Truth.  Like, Q would post something like, “record number of sealed indictments worldwide, meaning?” and Qanons go research everything they can find about sealed indictments and post their findings, etc etc.

Edited by anatess2

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21 hours ago, Vort said:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/27/news/companies/elon-musk-sec-tesla/index.html

I have long wondered about the tremendous power of the SEC. (No, not the Southeast Conference. Them, too, but I mean the Securities & Exchange Commission.) Insider trading is a serious matter, one that could potentially destroy or at least weaken the foundational idea of stock trading. So I totally get why harsh sanctions against market manipulation must be in place. And I grant that Musk's tweets might look like a hamfisted attempt at such. But I don't believe that's what actually went on. I believe that Musk was being Musk, tweeting out ideas as they occurred to him.

However that may be, how comfortable are we with the fact that a man can be permanently banned from his own company, or even deprived of liberty (as in imprisoned), because he said something that, outside of the narrow context of potential market manipulation, is obviously protected free speech, and not even particularly remarkable speech? How much are we willing to curtail free speech in order to avoid market manipulation? How much should we curtail it?

It’s not his company.  It’s a public company.  The SEC doesn’t care what owners of companies that are not publically traded say (unless, of course they’re in the process of an IPO).

And saying funding is in place when it isn’t is a lie, plain and simple.

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22 hours ago, Vort said:

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/27/news/companies/elon-musk-sec-tesla/index.html

I have long wondered about the tremendous power of the SEC. (No, not the Southeast Conference. Them, too, but I mean the Securities & Exchange Commission.) Insider trading is a serious matter, one that could potentially destroy or at least weaken the foundational idea of stock trading. So I totally get why harsh sanctions against market manipulation must be in place. And I grant that Musk's tweets might look like a hamfisted attempt at such. But I don't believe that's what actually went on. I believe that Musk was being Musk, tweeting out ideas as they occurred to him.

However that may be, how comfortable are we with the fact that a man can be permanently banned from his own company, or even deprived of liberty (as in imprisoned), because he said something that, outside of the narrow context of potential market manipulation, is obviously protected free speech, and not even particularly remarkable speech? How much are we willing to curtail free speech in order to avoid market manipulation? How much should we curtail it?

Free speech is indeed a big concern.  But with cool reflection, those of us in the cheap seats can clearly see how his comment (regardless of intent) was a very stupid thing to say in such a public medium.

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30 minutes ago, Still_Small_Voice said:

Elon Musk is a strange character but I like his cars.  If I had enough money I would buy one of his Model 3 Sedan electric cars.  The Model S with Ludicrous Mode is my favorite sports car now.

One of the weirder things I have heard/read recently is people complaining about the awful styling of the Teslas. Seriously? I mean, I'm sure there are valid complaints about Teslas, but the styling? I think they're beautiful cars whose styling is classic.

But then, I have also learned that my tastes and the tastes of the Cool Kids often don't line up well with each other.

Edited by Vort

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38 minutes ago, Vort said:

One of the weirder things I have heard/read recently is people complaining about the awful styling of the Teslas. Seriously? I mean, I'm sure there are valid complaints about Teslas, but the styling? I think they're beautiful cars whose styling is classic.

But then, I have also learned that my tastes and the tastes of the Cool Kids often don't line up well with each other.

One major problem is that the batteries simply don't function well in cold weather.  That is a weakness of today's battery technology that is difficult to get around.

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On 9/29/2018 at 10:19 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

Is it just me, or does 4chan/8chan sound like a horrible, horrible idea to anyone else as well?

It’s not an idea in the same manner that the Wild West is not an idea.  They’re simply unregulated places where freedom reigns - that is, freedom to be good and bad and everything in between.  The natural tendency of humans to congregate into cultural packs (internet culture is a very interesting thing) as well as the tendency to create chaos is ever present.  So, in the same way that I would advice somebody not to venture out of the tourist areas while visiting the Philippines unless you know what you’re getting into or guided by a trusted local is the same advice applicable to the chans or any other unregulated/non-mod/anonymous areas of the internet.  There are a ton of pretty awesome things to see but you have to know where to find them, how to avoid the dregs around it, and how to protect yourself.  There’s a benefit to the chans especially in today’s Big Tech climate.  After all, Utah and the survival of the Church wouldn’t have been possible if people didn’t venture into the wild to escape oppressive regulations.

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On 9/29/2018 at 4:17 PM, Vort said:

One of the weirder things I have heard/read recently is people complaining about the awful styling of the Teslas. Seriously? I mean, I'm sure there are valid complaints about Teslas, but the styling? I think they're beautiful cars whose styling is classic.

But then, I have also learned that my tastes and the tastes of the Cool Kids often don't line up well with each other.

You and I have the same taste.

I think the Smart Car and even the BMW I3 looks bad.

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Some years ago I use to work in the corporate environment.   It was common with job offers to have stock options that could be granted with 5 year tenure in addition salary was supplemented with stock option benefits.   This sounded well and good but the stock options were not free but were options to buy the stocks (usually with some discount or previously determined price).  What I began to notice was that when my options could be purchased - almost always the stocks were at a year high.  So I decided to do some research.  Most companies that allow employee stock options also have stock options as a benefit for top management (including the board of directors).  It seemed that when management got their stock options the stock was almost always at a year low.

And so I developed a stock strategy to research large corps. and determine when employee and management stock options occurred.  My strategy worked very well for a few years then companies started to change when the options were made available - mostly not announcing when the options would actually take place.  So here is my theory - me and a million others figured out this method which spoiled the management benefit (I believe management bought stock when their option takes place and sells when employee options take place).  Since lots of others were doing the same thing - the advantage was not as pronounced (if at all).   I believe there are loop holes that allow legal stock price fixing and I think it is part of what corps. do to take advantage of others.  But what upsets me the lost are those people that think whatever corporations do - is capitalism. 

I personally do not think we live in a capitalists society any more than if we were a socialized government.  (For all those that fear socialism)  I do not believe the so-called kind of government is as important as the honor of those that run whatever government and their economies (Federal Reserve).

 

The Traveler

Edited by Traveler

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On 9/29/2018 at 8:19 AM, The Folk Prophet said:

Is it just me, or does 4chan/8chan sound like a horrible, horrible idea to anyone else as well?

its the ultimate expression of online anrchy at least within the bounds of US law, but yes, to quote a certain force user; "you won't find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

 

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