Why do you vote the way you do?

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

That's a wish list that never comes true.  So, the best I can get.  

Yup.

I used to stick to my guns and refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils.  But the more I learn and consider about life, scriptures, and history, the more I realize that we almost always choose between the lesser of two evils (and I'm not just talking about elections).  Very little in this life that is considered good has no bad consequences.  Why do you think so many of the Lord's commandments get criticized by people who insist their judgment is better than God?  There's always something to complain about.

I remember a general authority was asked (IIRC -- Elder Faust) why he would be a Democrat when they support abortion.  He said,"If you're going to hold out for a political party that is on the right side of every issue, you'll be waiting a very long time.  IOW, yes, we do have to choose among those whom we have to work with.

The Lord himself chose Nebuchadnezzar to be the ruler over the Jews and the region of the world.  The Lord chose him to be the king of the nation that some consider the earth's first superpower.  He chose Darius to be king over the nation that almost all other historians consider the earth's first superpower.  And he chose a pagan faith even after witnessing Daniel's miracle in the Lion's Den.

How many other flawed -- highly flawed men has the Lord Chosen to lead the kingdom of his choice?

If the Lord chooses the lesser of two evils to be heads of state, then can we really sit on a high horse and refuse to vote for the one who is most likely to do the most good?  And I'm finally coming to admit to myself that the answer to this question has to at least consider the idea of electability.

I was against Trump because of many different reasons.  Most of which are still correct.  And knowing what I knew then with my current philosophy, I may have still cast my vote for third party.  But also knowing what he has actually accomplished, I believe I'd be able to overlook those in a public official considering what we are likely to be able to choose from.

[Guest Scott]

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I vote for the party/candidate that I dislike the least. 

Definitely this.  

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4. Party affiliation --

Never this.  Personally I feel that partisanship is ruining the county.  I'd rather vote on individual issues than on a party.

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1. Religious Liberty -- As an example, a humanist group is fighting to have a war memorial torn down because it includes a cross. The memorial has been up for decades. Why tear it down? Does it hurt the beliefs of humanists? I doubt it. However, it certainly hurts the feelings of those family and loved ones who honor those fallen soldiers. I want candidates who will elect judges with respect for spiritual heritage. Likewise for Christian bakers/florists etc. No one should be forced to participate in religious/political messaging that goes against their faith.

I agree, but this one works both ways.  There are cities, towns, and even states where it is illegal for atheists to run for office or be on juries.  This is definitely against the Constitution and isn't right.

My brother is married to the daughter of the late Senator Chris Buttars.  The senator tried to pass several laws saying that school clubs cannot include gay-straight alliances groups; while at the same time saying the Christian (LDS) groups should be encouraged to meet in the public schools.  This isn't right either. 

It doesn't matter if you don't approve of the club.  When it comes to the Separation of Church and State, the government must adhere to that.

Anyway,  having served in the military, I believe that we all should follow this quote:

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

When it comes to government, anyone should be allowed to refrain from anything they wish if it violated your religion.  However, you can't tell someone else they have to refrain from doing something because it is against your religion.  This doesn't mean that you can't stand up for your beliefs; you just shouldn't force them on someone else.  

I realize that others here may (and certainly do) disagree, but that's my own viewpoint. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Scott

[prisonchaplain]

46 minutes ago, Scott said:

It doesn't matter if you don't approve of the club.  When it comes to the Separation of Church and State, the government must adhere to that.
 

I will give credit to President Clinton on this matter. His administration brought us the Equal Access doctrine. Basically, if a school can have a chess club, a Bible club, or LDS club, or GSA club should be allowed under the same parameters. "Separation of Church & state" means government cannot favor one religion over another. However, as Clinton so wisely enforced, neither should government favor non-religion over religion.

Edited November 4, 2018 by prisonchaplain

[Guest Scott]

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I will give credit to President Clinton on this matter. His administration brought us the Equal Access doctrine. Basically, if a school can have a chess club, a Bible club, or LDS club, or GSA club should be allowed under the same parameters. "Separation of Church & state" means government cannot favor one religion over another. However, as Clinton so wisely enforced, neither should government favor non-religion over religion.

I agree.

===========================================================

Off topic, but Bill Clinton got at least a little close to joining our Church as a youth.  Elvis Presley attended early morning seminary and received missionary discussions as well.  Having Elder Clinton and Elder Presley in our Church would be interesting for sure and may have changed history. One can wonder.  

[prisonchaplain]

It's my string, so I'll allow the "off topic" topic. Elvis may have almost and kinda investigated, but, according to beliefnet:

 

... He was first caught by music as young person in Mississippi growing up in an Assembly of God church. Through his career Elvis would reference his faith, noting that he didn't like to be called the king as to him, Jesus Christ was king. His gospel records may be influenced by the secular sound he helped to make famous, but they are as touching as any similar recordings coming out at the time.
 

 

His roots with with me. 😜

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

You're from Australia.  I don't see how going through any sort of effort in researching candidates results in any dividends.

It makes me feel good

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I remember a general authority was asked (IIRC -- Elder Faust) why he would be a Democrat when they support abortion.  He said,"If you're going to hold out for a political party that is on the right side of every issue, you'll be waiting a very long time. 

I didn't know he said that, but I appreciate this reference.  Although I don't consider myself a Democrat, I often find myself voting for them as the lesser of two evils.  I have voted third party as well particularly in Presidential elections. 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I didn't know he said that, but I appreciate this reference.  Although I don't consider myself a Democrat, I often find myself voting for them as the lesser of two evils.  I have voted third party as well particularly in Presidential elections. 

Just as a disclaimer, I can't be certain it was him.  But it was one of the apostles.  His name is that which comes to mind when I recall the quote.

[Sunday21]

I would like to thank George W Bush for saving the banks. He bailed out the US banks at a critical point. If he had not done so, it would have been a disaster.http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26987291/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/bush-signs-billion-financial-bailout-bill/#.W97qGBpyahA

The Canadian banks are highly regulated with the plus side that they are very stable. At this point in history, Canada looked like a financial genius. But still a US banking crisis would have affected everyone. 

Edited November 4, 2018 by Sunday21

[anatess2]

I vote for the guy who doesn’t think the government is the answer to all of life’s problems.

[anatess2]

13 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

I would like to thank George W Bush for saving the banks. He bailed out the US banks at a critical point. If he had not done so, it would have been a disaster.http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26987291/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/t/bush-signs-billion-financial-bailout-bill/#.W97qGBpyahA

The Canadian banks are highly regulated with the plus side that they are very stable. At this point in history, Canada looked like a financial genius. But still a US banking crisis would have affected everyone. 

This is like saying... I’d like to thank the guy who saved the baby he threw into the swimming pool..

Edited November 5, 2018 by anatess2

[Traveler]

I was raised in a political family.  My father never held an elected office but was very active in a party.  His lesson to me was to be active in a political party, seek positions of power in that political party and then always vote straight party.  He said (and he is right) if someone does not follow this method - they will not be represented and their vote will be wasted.  Sorry @prisonchaplain your method just does not work - what an elected official (or any party candidate) says they will do is not the same as what they will do.  We all should have learned this lesson by now.

My problem has been that all political parties are too evil and corrupt to be so involved.  For example - Trump is the closest thing I have seen in my lifetime to an non "political" candidate that really intends to follow a declared agenda.  But I would not trust Trump (or anyone with his morals) to clean toilets let alone run the most powerful government in the world.

I do vote - but I do not pretend that I have any real priorities or options.  My faith is not in issues, political party, candidate, country or even in good intentions dispute the fact that I will speak of such.  My hope is that G-d will soon intervene and end the separation of church and state. 

 

The Traveler

Edited November 5, 2018 by Traveler

[Traveler]

13 hours ago, anatess2 said:

This is like saying... I’d like to thank the guy who saved the baby he threw into the swimming pool..

The only problem with this thinking is that George did not do any of this all on his own - he had lots and lots of help.

 

The Traveler

Edited November 5, 2018 by Traveler

[anatess2]

32 minutes ago, Traveler said:

The only problem with this thinking is that George did not do any of this all on his own - he had lots and lots of help.

 

The Traveler

I'm not talking of just Bush.  I'm talking of the whole Cabal - including his father.

[Traveler]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I'm not talking of just Bush.  I'm talking of the whole Cabal - including his father.

And Barney-Frank and every person (political or not) that supported it or did not risk everything opposing it.

 

The Traveler

[anatess2]

6 minutes ago, Traveler said:

And Barney-Frank and every person (political or not) that supported it or did not risk everything opposing it.

 

The Traveler

This goes way beyond Barney-Frank.

[person0]

On 11/3/2018 at 6:11 PM, MormonGator said:

What if the candidate was pro-life but had reservations on rape/incest? 

I know you weren't asking me, but I do not support abortion in circumstance of rape or incest.  The only circumstance I can support would be in the circumstance that the mother would die; in that circumstance it is the decision of a life for a life, and I can't blame anyone for making that call.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, person0 said:

I know you weren't asking me, 

It was an open question my friend. You are free to answer of  course. 

When I was elementary school they had a mock election for Bush/Clinton (I was in elementary school, @Vort was in his 60s). One lady wrote a THREE PAGE essay on how she would only vote for a candidate that was "100% pro life, no exceptions." So she wouldn't vote for either one. My precocious and obnoxious mind asked the teacher "Um, if she doesn't vote for the guy who wants less abortions, isn't she helping the other guy win?" The teacher said "Basically". 

Now, I sort of think that people like her vote third party out of moral superiority. This goes for the green party leftists and the right wing Constitution party crowd. The same reason why people didn't vote for Trump.  And I didn't vote for Trump, for the record. We vote third party to arrogantly wash our hands of any guilt, without realizing that those who accept reality and vote for the lesser evil are the real ones who are furthering the cause. The rest of us wasted our vote in order to feel morally superior to the other dirty people. 

I obviously didn't have any friends in elementary school.  Or high school. Or college. Or now.

Edited November 5, 2018 by MormonGator

[Guest Scott]

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My hope is that G-d will soon intervene and end the separation of church and state. 

Am I understanding this correctly?   You want the separation of Church and State to end?

This would be a very dangerous situation, at least until the second coming.

If the separation of Church and State is ended, which Church should get priority?   I promise you that it won't be ours.  A majority of Americans have a negative view of our church and we are the second least favored church is this country, after Islam.  

Almost all countries in the world today that don't have a separation of Church and State have serious human rights issues.

If you mean after the second coming though, that's a whole different story.

Edited November 5, 2018 by Scott

[person0]

3 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I obviously didn't have any friends in elementary school.  Or high school. Or college. Or now.

Well, If I ever get the chance to move to Florida, I will be happy to . . . remind you of that fact!

I didn't vote for Trump during the 2016 election, although I may have reconsidered if I lived in a swing state (he was all but guaranteed win in KY anyway), however, I am definitely planning to vote for him in 2020, for now.  That said, I am not quite like your friend, I support the way Marco Rubio addressed it during one of the debates.  He said something along the lines of, he does not support it for cases of incest, or rape, but that he would vote to pass legislation that allows for it if it excludes convenience cases.  Anyway, a move in the right direction is better than no movement at all.  Eventually, I imagine our voting options may be between bad and worse.  Daniel served various wicked men, but remained righteous, I don't really take issue with those who vote for the one they think will do least damage.

Edited November 5, 2018 by person0

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, person0 said:

Well, If I ever get the chance to move to Florida, I will be happy to . . . remind you of that fact!
 

LOL! 

And if you ever move to Florida I'll be sure to ignore your texts your phone calls. 

(just playing @person0) 

[person0]

12 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

(just playing @person0) 

No worries; if I ever feel like you are actually legit being mean, I will call you out or pm you 🙂

[Guest MormonGator]

1 minute ago, person0 said:

No worries; if I ever feel like you are actually legit being mean, I will call you out or pm you 🙂

if you really want to see "mean" you should listen to me during Florida-Kentucky basketball games. I could make you cry son. 

And I've hated John Calipari since his days at Umass. Though I think he's a great coach. 

Edited November 5, 2018 by MormonGator

[person0]

5 hours ago, MormonGator said:

if you really want to see "mean" you should listen to me during Florida-Kentucky basketball games. I could make you cry son. 

And I've hated John Calipari since his days at Umass. Though I think he's a great coach. 

I think this say's it all, but equally as interesting, Florida didn't make the top 50!  Even BYU was #12!

[dahlia]

I just got a FB post from a sister in the ward, wanting to know how to research the candidates.  Voting is tomorrow. Personally, if you are that ignorant of the candidates and issues so that you don't bother about them until the day before the election, you shouldn't vote.

I'm just gonna say that I left the plantation. You couldn't pay me to vote Democrat. Yes, I'm one of those who votes a straight ticket. As far as I'm concerned, there are no 'good' Democrats in office. They are out to ruin families, keep blacks as an underclass, ruin the economy and give it over to globalists, and erase American culture. In my mind, there is no 'best person for the job' if that person's party is anti-life and anti-America.

I lived in Seattle for almost 5 years. I know what a government based on liberalism looks like and it ain't pretty.

Also, this 'they need to work with other parties' stuff is a mistake. Work with other parties how - vote for 3rd trimester abortion? Allow all undocumented illegals in? Where do you compromise your principals? It's bad enough when corporate Republicans fail to act on illegal aliens because they need the labor (I'm looking at you G. Bush). I don't have to go looking for places to compromise my beliefs just because some people think it will make me look like a better person.