Vort

Jesus did not socially distance himself from the lepers.

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I think our entire approach to this so-called pandemic is wrong-headed and based in a 19th-century-level understanding of microbiology. Destroying or seriously altering basic communication skills in our society is penny-wise but pound-foolish. It may delay the immediate spread of Covid-19, but I don't see it doing even a speck of long-term good. I do see a distinct possibility of it doing a lot of long-term harm, however.

Can you imagine Jesus practicing social distancing?

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48 minutes ago, Vort said:

I think our entire approach to this so-called pandemic is wrong-headed and based in a 19th-century-level understanding of microbiology. Destroying or seriously altering basic communication skills in our society is penny-wise but pound-foolish. It may delay the immediate spread of Covid-19, but I don't see it doing even a speck of long-term good. I do see a distinct possibility of it doing a lot of long-term harm, however.

Can you imagine Jesus practicing social distancing?

Note: a leper is someone whom at some point had leprosy.  Such a person may be totally non-contagious (the bacteria itself being gone for years) or only minorly contagious.  Leprosy isn't a very contagious disease at all.   But that's not your real question.

 

Slowing the spread of disease is a being a good steward of ourselves, our society, and especially the elderly.  It's something President Nelson himself and rest of Church leadership have heavily endorsed.  And yes, I see Christ Himself support it too.   Ministering still goes on-- like I actually heard from my ministering brothers for the first time ever, because they checked up on my family via text.  My daughter's primary teacher brought over cookies and a object-lesson.  My ministering sister & husband offered to bring the Sacrament to my house.  

And Pres. Nelson is the #1 trending YouTube video, his message and the power he brings touching people whom have no idea who this is, as well Latter-Day Saints around the world.  

Yes, this whole thing is inconvenient-- a novel disease broke out globally and we are inconvenienced by staying home, living a home-centered Church-supported lifestyle, reminding people the importance God, being prepared, actually spending time with your family at home, and ministering to others.  I'm just picturing some soul whom lived through the Black Death watching us right now, being inconvenienced versus what they lived through.

Edited by Jane_Doe

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16 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

Yes, this whole thing is inconvenient

It's much more than "inconvenient". It could, and already has, cost billions of dollars in lost wages-and has potential to cost people much more. 

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7 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's much more than "inconvenient". It could, and already has, cost billions of dollars in lost wages-and has potential to cost people much more. 

And the potential of millions of folks being sick and overwhelming our ability to treat them?

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1 hour ago, Vort said:

 It may delay the immediate spread of Covid-19, but I don't see it doing even a speck of long-term good. I do see a distinct possibility of it doing a lot of long-term harm, however.

This is my concern also, the long-term effects due to the "panic" that has arisen from media and other outlets explaining what is happening.

48 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

I think it is great when people want to help but in the same breath aren't helping much. When I read through this article here is what I find good and problematic

1) The Covid-19 is not like the Flu. Here are the reasons why people are saying it is like the flu: a) It is harmful to the same age groups. I have two family members with the virus. They are fine, and they only went to the hospital to get diagnosed. No fear of death or anything, b) The symptoms are flu like symptoms, quick research show you that the Flu appears to have more symptoms then the Covid-19 virus does, c) Flu has been around longer we know how to combat it and people don't panic running to the hospital for treatment (like my family members who have it), 4) If media didn't cause panic would people who truly need assistance be receiving that or are other people who would be fine standing in the way?

2) In Italy hospitals are forced to make life and death decisions. I don't find this helpful, but a reason to entice panic. Hospitals have to make life and death decisions that is part of being and working at a hospital. What can help this situation, rather than adding flame to the fire?

3) Agreed. Accurate reporting is necessary. This is one thing bothering family member who has it. He said the reports in California aren't accurate because he knows more people than the number being reported. That is unfortunate.

4) Exponential spread isn't hard to understand. Not helpful to say it is hard to grasp.

5) Is this a time to Panic? NO! says the emphasized title. And then you read a few sentences down, "This is a Pearl Harbor moment for our country." Don't panic, but, but, but...we have another Pearl Harbor on our hands. I think that is what you call double barrelled. This is not a time to panic, BUT you should really be panicking because you are about to be blown up or could be >> death, death, death >> but don't panic? Which one does this article want?

I admit, I would be a lot more in survival mode if an aircraft and bombs started hitting the dirt in Utah. Don't make contradicting statements, as these don't help. Please don't make lame analogies. Isn't helpful!

Edited by Anddenex

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14 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

As physician leaders, we felt it was important to craft a resource you can rely on as being scientifically accurate and one which contains as much actionable information and guidance as possible.

Note: This article is all about truth. Diamond truth. Sterling truth. 24-karat, shiny Scientific Truth. You can count on Dr Luks to be scientifically accurate. Just ask him. So let's take a look at a few of Dr. Luks' priceless Scientific Truths.

Stating that we only have 1600 cases today is absolutely irrelevant in the face of a pandemic virus spreading under exponential conditions.

So here's the upshot: The fact that we currently have only 1600 cases "is absolutely irrelevant". Not merely understating the risk. Not just misleading. No, it's "absolutely irrelevant". There is literally no relevance whatsoever that 1600 people in the US have COVID-19 (as of the time of the writing of this article). It might as well be 16 billion people, or 16 people. It's all exactly the same.

That's Science!

Exponential math is very hard to grasp.

Another very important Scientific Truth. This fact does not vary from person to person. Any human being who claims to understand "exponential math" is lying. They can't understand it, or at least not very well, or at least not without many long decades of intensive study that YOU certainly have not had. Because by its very nature, "Exponential math is very hard to grasp." Not just a little hard, mind you. See for yourself. Go right now to your local community college's math offerings and see if they even OFFER Exponential Math 101.

No? No! Of course not! That's because it's Very Hard to Grasp.

That's Science!

Every person with the COVID-19 virus infects approximately 2 people. Some less, some more.

So, for instance, no one with COVID-19 infects zero people, and no one infects, say, 20 people. Each person infects approximately two others. Period. And neither zero nor 20 is approximately 2.

Don't you just love how science gives such unambiguous, authoritative answers to your pressing questions?

Is it time to panic? NO!

This is a vitally important Scientific Truth. When it's time to panic, the Sciencey People will let you know, and then you should go panic. But not yet! It's not time! Wait another week or so!

This is a Pearl Harbor moment for our country.

Another priceless Scientific Truth. In fact, just yesterday a paper was published that confirmed (p<0.001) that this is indeed a Pearl Harbor moment for the United States of America.

When people decry the seriousness of this moment they are steering our country off a cliff

The same paper referenced above also demonstrated conclusively that naysayers are literally steering the United States of America off a cliff. LITERALLY! Stupid naysayers!

if we work together to slow the spread we will get through this

Ibid. Science, people.

Mitigation is the best current strategy available to us. Mitigation involves very strict social isolation.

Please note that these statements are not mere value judgments or common sense. As per the introductory remarks in the article, these are Scientific Truths. All hail!

Support the #CancelEverything and #SocialDistancingWorks movements.

Scientific Truths, people! Supporting these social movements is just exactly like learning the laws of thermodynamics!

Mitigation measures for immediate implementation:

Each of these measures has been rigorously examined and shown to be a basic, fundamental scientific truth. We expect this list to be required learning in our medical schools for at least the next 300 years.

Science is the best! Good thing social and political activists never use "science" as a cynical smoke screen to drive their holy and well-intentioned agenda.

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19 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It's much more than "inconvenient". It could, and already has, cost billions of dollars in lost wages-and has potential to cost people much more. 

Exactly my concern. This is already shaping up to be a situation where the cure is much worse than the disease. And what does this condition us to do for the next outbreak or social panic? People are losing their minds. It's unbelievable.

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20 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said:

And the potential of millions of folks being sick and overwhelming our ability to treat them?

That was part of what I said when I said it could cost them "much more". 

Edited by MormonGator

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39 minutes ago, dprh said:

 

This is a friend of mine.  She put these together to help explain things, including why social isolating can help.  Short version, we need to lengthen out the time people get it, so that hospitals and health workers don't get overwhelmed all at once.

Well, I have one child who hasn't stopped picking nose and eating it. I know now who is the culprit if any of us are infected.

<sarcasm> I am about to put a shock collar on this kid and push the button multiple times to help him to stop. Now, I am more convinced to do so since picking nose is a good way to become infected. And now I know he has doubled his chance of becoming infected because the nose and mouth. </sarcasm> 😫

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32 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

No to spread any rumors, but I have heard that Mountain Dew helps prevent Covid-19 >>> just saying. 🤣

I'm on it! Daddy to the rescue! Won't my family be grateful to me when I save them all!

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32 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

No to spread any rumors, but I have heard that Mountain Dew helps prevent Covid-19 >>> just saying. 🤣

@Midwest LDS told me that 10 pounds of M&M's do the trick. So if I die of diabetes or morbid obesity before Corona gets me, blame him. 

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26 minutes ago, mikbone said:

Since Jesus can cure any disease / resurrect anyone.  I doubt than and bacteria or virus would frighten him.

I believe this is a naive, flawed, even dangerous way of considering the mortal ministry of Jesus. Jesus was not magic. He went among the lepers, not because he had magical resistance powers to leprosy, but because he always did what was right. And ministering to lepers was the right thing to do. He risked getting leprosy just like anyone else would have, but it didn't stop him from doing what was right. That's the point. And I believe the same applies to us.

How does this apply to COVID-19? I do not believe we should quit socializing with people because we see them as filthy, horrid biobags of infectious agents.

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1 minute ago, Vort said:

I do not believe we should quit socializing with people because we see them as filthy, horrid biobags of infectious agents.

Very noble of you @Vort

But I'd appreciate it if you kept socializing to a minimum so you didn't spread the disease to my 85 year old grandmother. Or my friend who has a weakened immune system. Or, a newborn baby. Or, my entire ward. Which has a median age of 73 (not pejorative, honest statement) and would rather not die. 

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4 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Very noble of you @Vort

Noble is my middle name.

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

But I'd appreciate it if you kept socializing to a minimum so you didn't spread the disease to my 85 year old grandmother. Or my friend who has a weakened immune system. Or, a newborn baby. Or, my entire ward. Which has a median age of 73 (not pejorative, honest statement) and would rather not die.

I will steer clear of your 85-year-old grandma and your sick friend, though honestly it's their duty, not mine, to limit their exposure. The newborn baby has nothing to fear; from what I have heard, there have been no deaths of anyone under the age of about 18.

And if your ward members would rather not die, I have tragic news for them.

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I just don't understand, @Vort. When the church dissolves high priests, reduces meeting times, introduces ministering, its applauded as being progress; great steps in improving the welfare of members worldwide.

But when the church takes more steps to ensure the welfare of members worldwide, it's "wrong-headed and based in a 19th-century-level understanding of microbiology." So, what, is the council any less inspired today than they were 2 years ago?

I live with my mother who's in the risk category. 3% may seem small to you, but when family members are involved, it's a huge number. If I don't do my part to control the virus, then treatment centers may be strained too thin to help her if she gets infected.

You're right that there's no need to panic, and people with the Spirit of Truth will not. But I'm not going to disregard professional and spiritual counsel just because it casts a bad light on the president.

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8 minutes ago, Vort said:

I will steer clear of your 85-year-old grandma and your sick friend, though honestly it's their duty, not mine, to limit their exposure. 

If someone said something so cold blooded about your grandmother or sick friend, I'd be mortified. That, and even if they took every step possible, they are still at a higher risk than you or I.

We're Christians. The least we can do is "love one another" and take their health into account. 

 

Edited by MormonGator

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8 minutes ago, Moonbeast32 said:

But when the church takes more steps to ensure the welfare of members worldwide, it's "wrong-headed and based in a 19th-century-level understanding of microbiology." So, what, is the council any less inspired today than they were 2 years ago?

What are you talking about? What have I said about the Church?

9 minutes ago, Moonbeast32 said:

I live with my mother who's in the risk category. 3% may seem small to you, but when family members are involved, it's a huge number.

You are not the only person with at-risk family. I have several. That doesn't mean I therefore set aside all rationality and join in the general panic.

10 minutes ago, Moonbeast32 said:

But I'm not going to disregard professional and spiritual counsel just because it casts a bad light on the president.

Who, exactly, do you think is "disregard[ing] professional and spiritual counsel...because it casts a bad light on the president"? Sounds like a baseless accusation, but if someone here has suggested such a thing, I'm willing to be corrected.

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