Endure to the end

[askandanswer]

The phrase "endure to the end" occurs 18 times in the scriptures, including at least once by Christ in Matthew 10. Today I found myself wondering, what is the end beyond which we no longer have to endure?

[mikbone]

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/library/hymns/if-you-could-hie-to-kolob?lang=eng

[laronius]

The command to endure to the end is specifically tied in the scriptures to being saved and as such is referring to this mortal probation:

2 Nephi 33:9 ...enter into the narrow gate, and walk in the strait path which leads to life, and continue in the path until the end of the day of probation.

But in a more general sense, as @mikbone implies in his post, there really is no end to the need to lead a godly existence. But once a person is exalted how much "enduring" is really required? When Satan is locked away and the natural man is brought into complete submission to the spirit (if the natural man even exists anymore) and the temporal challenges of this life are behind us what is there left to endure? Yes the choice to do or not do good will always exist but if there is nothing enticing me or pressuring me to choose the bad I don't know if I would label that as enduring.

Edited July 11, 2021 by laronius

[CV75]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

The phrase "endure to the end" occurs 18 times in the scriptures, including at least once by Christ in Matthew 10. Today I found myself wondering, what is the end beyond which we no longer have to endure?

I often take "end" to mean aim, purpose, cause or objective (as in means to an end). That would render "endure to the end" as "remain faithful and consecrated to the cause, which is the immortality and eternal life of man..

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I often take "end" to mean aim, purpose, cause or objective (as in means to an end). That would render "endure to the end" as "remain faithful and consecrated to the cause, which is the immortality and eternal life of man..

That's an interesting take I hadn't considered before. 

I hope that isn't the meaning.  Having endured all sorts of traumatic, harmful, and unpleasant things, and having to continually endure more of the same, I'm sort of looking forward to a release of those burdens and an eternity without having to deal with them any more.  I don't want to spend eternity enduring never-ending traumatic, harmful, or unpleasant things.  

I'm much more of a fan of the Brigham-Young-trying-to-keep-the-spirits-of-the-pioneers-up-esque traditional meaning of the term.  I'm a far bigger fan of Come, come ye Saints, with it's promises of an eventual ending of the burdens. 

Quote

Come, come, ye Saints, no toil nor labor fear, But with joy wend your way
Though hard to you this journey may appear, Grace shall be as your day

'Tis better far for us to strive, Our useless cares from us to drive
Do this, and joy your hearts will swell! All is well! All is well!

 

Why should we mourn or think our lot is hard? 'Tis not so, all is right
Why should we think to earn a great reward? If we now shun the fight?

Gird up your loins, fresh courage take. Our God will never us forsake.
And soon we'll have this tale to tell: All is well! All is well!

 

We'll find the place which God for us prepared, Far away in the West

Where none shall come to hurt or make afraid.  There the Saints will be blessed

We'll make the air with music ring, Shout praises to our God and King
Above the rest these words we'll tell, All is well! All is well!

 

And should we die before our journey's through, Happy day! All is well!
We then are free from toil and sorrow, too With the just we shall dwell!

But if our lives are spared again, To see the Saints their rest obtain
Oh, how we'll make this chorus swell! All is well! All is well!

I'm all for finding ways to rejoice in sorrow, I've done it before, in some ways I'm doing it now.  The prospect of having to do it for all eternity may be more than I can bear.

 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

That's an interesting take I hadn't considered before. 

I hope that isn't the meaning.  Having endured all sorts of traumatic, harmful, and unpleasant things, and having to continually endure more of the same, I'm sort of looking forward to a release of those burdens and an eternity without having to deal with them any more.  I don't want to spend eternity enduring never-ending traumatic, harmful, or unpleasant things.  

I'm much more of a fan of the Brigham-Young-trying-to-keep-the-spirits-of-the-pioneers-up-esque traditional meaning of the term.  I'm a far bigger fan of Come, come ye Saints, with it's promises of an eventual ending of the burdens. 

I'm all for finding ways to rejoice in sorrow, I've done it before, in some ways I'm doing it now.  The prospect of having to do it for all eternity may be more than I can bear.

 

I can understand that, and why you would interpret my comment as rejoicing in sorrow (which I hadn't intended to convey).

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, mikbone said:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/library/hymns/if-you-could-hie-to-kolob?lang=eng

So would endure to the end and endure forever have basically the same meanings?

Edited July 11, 2021 by askandanswer

[mikbone]

2 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

So would endure to the end and endure forever have basically the same meanings?

I can't see Heavenly Father giving up any time soon...

[askandanswer]

8 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I can't see Heavenly Father giving up any time soon...

I'm thinking more about us. Is there no point at which we will no longer have to endure or is it effort and struggle forever? 

[mikbone]

7 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

I'm thinking more about us. Is there no point at which we will no longer have to endure or is it effort and struggle forever? 

He and we are the same.  He has just progressed further.

Heavenly Father has a different perspective.  Right now, to us it appears like enduring forever.  To him it's probably just eternal progress and fun.  

Edited July 11, 2021 by mikbone

[laronius]

1 hour ago, askandanswer said:

I'm thinking more about us. Is there no point at which we will no longer have to endure or is it effort and struggle forever? 

That thought does sound gloomy indeed. But I don't think that will be the case. 

D&C 121:29 All thrones and dominions, principalities and powers, shall be revealed and set forth upon all who have endured valiantly for the gospel of Jesus Christ...
32 According to that which was ordained in the midst of the Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was, that should be reserved unto the finishing and the end thereof, when every man shall enter into his eternal presence and into his immortal rest.

I think most of what we view as having to be endured is tied to this mortal and fallen existence and is geared towards producing a specific result, namely an exalted being. Once exalted there will still always be work to do but I think the struggle part goes away. Can we rightfully say that God struggles in his work? I don't think we can because he has all power and knowledge and though he still feels sorrow because of some of his children what he doesn't feel is doubt, fear, despair, insecure, unsure, worried, fretful, impatient, tired, or any of the other negative things we deal with while enduring. He knows, always, what needs to be done and he is able, always, to do it. A far different experience from ours in this life.

[Vort]

4 hours ago, askandanswer said:

I'm thinking more about us. Is there no point at which we will no longer have to endure or is it effort and struggle forever? 

We are promised rest, even eternal rest. I think much of the anxiety we experience is a result, not of our experiences, but of our mortal state.

[dprh]

4 minutes ago, Vort said:

We are promised rest, even eternal rest. I think much of the anxiety we experience is a result, not of our experiences, but of our mortal state.

I've heard that "rest" in this sense might not be like laying on a couch, but as in the remaining amount.  Inheriting the "rest of the Lord" could be whatever we have not yet inherited, or the difference between what we have now (or at that moment) and everything else.

[NeuroTypical]

44 minutes ago, Vort said:

We are promised rest, even eternal rest. I think much of the anxiety we experience is a result, not of our experiences, but of our mortal state.

Yes, that's certainly my hope.  Just the mere notion that there may not be an end to enduring had me so spun up today, that it fueled a burst of creativity.  Here are the missing verses of If You Could Hie To Kolob, which encapsulate the notion.

Quote

 

There is no end to trauma, or pain or grief or strife.
No end to stress or sorrow, or fighting with your wife.

There is no end to stupid, or the clamor of angry shouts.
Flat tires and taxes?  Endless. Your kids will never move out.

 

Pick your favorite remix run in the background as you sing them.

Hie To Kolob Tango
Catholic congregation with different words
Irish/Celtic mix

 

[mikbone]

John 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.  

Alma 13 6, 16  "that they might enter into the rest of the Lord" 

Moroni 7:3 "by which ye can enter into the rest of the Lord, from this time henceforth until ye shall rest with him in heaven."

[NeuroTypical]

I don't mind working hard.  I'm hoping there's lots of jargle from which I may rest, burdens which I may lay down, while I'm working hard.

Edited July 12, 2021 by NeuroTypical

[Vort]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I'm hoping there's lots of jargle from which I may rest

jargle (v.i.) To emit a harsh or discordant sound.

I assume the nounification of this verb therefore means "the emission of a harsh or discordant sound". Fun new word!

[Traveler]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:13 AM, askandanswer said:

The phrase "endure to the end" occurs 18 times in the scriptures, including at least once by Christ in Matthew 10. Today I found myself wondering, what is the end beyond which we no longer have to endure?

Whenever I see or hear these thoughts - I think of the divine covenant of marriage and what it would mean to "endure to the end".  If we apply the modern understanding of "endure" we are not going to enjoy marriage very much.  I believe the proper understanding to be applied to scripture is the concept of learning to enjoy doing all that will make our covenant with G-d an act of joy.  I am of the idea that anything that we do not enjoy we will not endure for very long.  Thus I believe that the ancient concept of "endure to the end" simply means that we learn to love and enjoy our covenants with G-d.

I would also add the thought that the ancient idea of sacrifice was not so much to give up as it was to make sacred.  If we love and enjoy sacred things what then what is our sacrifice?  or what is the reward of sacrifice?  Perhaps we only learn such things when we learn to love and enjoy enduring to the end.  So here is an example - if we endure paying our tithing while thinking about all the things we are giving up that we could have bought with our tithing monies - we are not enduring according to the commandment.  But if we pay our tithing with joy and gladness for the blessings of tithing then indeed we will think to offer more that we would be more filled with joy.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:14 AM, Vort said:

jargle (v.i.) To emit a harsh or discordant sound.

I assume the nounification of this verb therefore means "the emission of a harsh or discordant sound". Fun new word!

It means I hope (should I make it to heaven) to have fewer things about which to grumble and gripe.