Russia-Ukraine conflict

[Carborendum]

I just learned about Jack Ma.  He was the CEO of Alibaba.  He had a net worth of almost $40B.  He made one public statement criticizing the Chinese Government and disappeared for three months to announce that he was in the process of selling his company.  No real explanation why he disappeared.  No explanation about why he's giving it all up.

Does any of this sound familiar?

[NeuroTypical]

Oh wow.  So US navy seals did it, authorized by Biden?
 

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream?r=5mz1&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

This is one of those “the less you hear about it, the more likely it’s real” moments.

[Carborendum]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Oh wow.  So US navy seals did it, authorized by Biden?

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream?r=5mz1&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web

This is one of those “the less you hear about it, the more likely it’s real” moments.

I find it humorous that with all this secrecy, a reporter from a European nation (I don't remember which nation) wrote a piece with a headline:

Quote

Thanks, USA!

the day the news broke about the sabotage.

Keeping a real tight lid on it, I see.

I'll give Biden (or rather his puppet-masters) a point for this one.  I like it.

[NeuroTypical]

Whelp, into the 2nd year.

I'm grateful that I was able to connect briefly with my random Russian online artist acquaintances.  They're still creating content and releasing it on YouTube.   They're also 'hiding' blue and yellow and their vids, in honor of the Ukrainian folks they used to be able to associate with freely.   Their opinion on the war is just a bunch of "you don't know the truth it's just the oligarchs making the war because capitalism is bad".  

[zil2]

7 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

 Their opinion on the war is just a bunch of "you don't know the truth it's just the oligarchs making the war because capitalism is bad".  

Am I the only one who thinks those oligarchs (on both sides) are getting rich off the war?

[LDSGator]

I remember when people laughed at Mitt Romney for calling Russia a threat back in 2012. 
 

😞 

[mirkwood]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I remember when people laughed at Mitt Romney for calling Russia a threat back in 2012. 
 

😞 

One of the few things he has gotten right.

[LDSGator]

9 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

One of the few things he has gotten right.

Obama owes him an apology. 

[NeuroTypical]

Obama owes everybody an apology. It’s not like Ukraine was the first place that Russia invaded in the last decade or so…

[Vort]

8 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Obama owes him an apology. 

Fundamental tenet of the Left: Never, never, never admit you were wrong. (Corollary: Never, never, never apologize. Because that would be tantamount to admitting you're wrong. Also, even if you're wrong, you're not sorry. Not that truth has any value per se, but as a general rule it's better to leave the lying to times when it proves advantageous.)

[Carborendum]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

Fundamental tenet of the Left: Never, never, never admit you were wrong. (Corollary: Never, never, never apologize. Because that would be tantamount to admitting you're wrong. Also, even if you're wrong, you're not sorry. Not that truth has any value per se, but as a general rule it's better to leave the lying to times when it proves advantageous.)

In fairness, today's public life in general has forced all sides to adopt this doctrine of "never apologize, never admit you were wrong."

People from all sides will pounce.  And when it is political, we rarely see any apology accepted with forgiveness given.  And that's true for both right and left.

I say "rarely" with full intent.  I've seen it happen in highly unusual circumstances.  I have been pleasantly surprised.

One instance was when Van Jones accepted an invitation to attend a CPAC conference to speak about Trump's prison reforms that seemed to be much more merciful to minorities (especially blacks).  Van Jones recognized that this was something that he could support even though it came from a political enemy.  And he addressed the CPAC crowd to praise the effort.

The crowd responded to his speech by chanting "JOIN US!  JOIN US!"

He smiled and chuckled in response, but politely declined.

Put whatever political feelings you have about any of the laws and policies here.  What I got out of it was a very warm and cherishable moment of peace and good will between extreme political enemies.

[LDSGator]

12 hours ago, Vort said:

Fundamental tenet of the Left: Never, never, never admit you were wrong

That’s true, but I have yet to see a true believer of any political/religious stripe who can engage in self-critique. It’s like asking a cat to explain the nuances of Paradise Lost. 

[LDSGator]

But, to be fair, leftists wrote this book. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_that_Failed

About how they were wrong about communism. So obviously some on the left can do this. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by LDSGator

[mirkwood]

6 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

But, to be fair, leftists wrote this book. 
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_that_Failed

 

About how they were wrong about communism. 

 

Also important to note...those essays were not written by Americans, nor was the editor an American.  

 

Much of the American left embraces communist and socialist philosophies.

Edited May 10, 2023 by mirkwood

[LDSGator]

5 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Much of the American left embraces communist and socialist philosophies.

The left EVERYWHERE embraces socialism or “socialist light” policies. 

[Carborendum]

26 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Much of the American left embraces communist and socialist philosophies.

What disappoints me more is how much of the American right does the same thing.

[LDSGator]

3 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

What disappoints me more is how much of the American right does the same thing.

Correct.
 

All you need to so is look down here. Conservatives, generally skeptical of government force, love how DeSantis is using…government force….against Disney. 

[Just_A_Guy]

29 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Correct.
 

All you need to so is look down here. Conservatives, generally skeptical of government force, love how DeSantis is using…government force….against Disney. 

Tangent:  

To be fair, DeSantis is merely revoking a corporatist-government alliance that a free-market conservative would argue never should have existed in the first place and that became intolerable when the apolitical private-sector partner became nakedly political.

Though I suspect you’re right that many conservatives are approaching the situation from primarily an emotional, not an intellectual worldview.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Just_A_Guy

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

To be fair, DeSantis is merely revoking a corporatist-government alliance that a free-market conservative would argue never should have existed in the first place and that became intolerable when the apolitical private-sector partner became nakedly political.

Though I suspect you’re right that many conservatives are approaching the situation from primarily an emotional, not an intellectual worldview.

Agree.

[Traveler]

23 hours ago, mirkwood said:

 

Also important to note...those essays were not written by Americans, nor was the editor an American.  

 

Much of the American left embraces communist and socialist philosophies.

More and more I am inclined to think and strongly believe that the “Kingdom” of G-d is the only possible legitimate form of government.  Sadly, many (some for sure) conservatives oppose G-d’s thinking and approach as socialistic.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

Sadly, many (some for sure) conservatives oppose G-d’s thinking and approach as socialistic.

I get the impression that it is you who actually believes in socialism and that God's approach is socialism or communism.

I'm guessing that you don't really understand the difference.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Carborendum

[Traveler]

4 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I get the impression that it is you who actually believes in socialism and that God's approach is socialism or communism.

I'm guessing that you don't really understand the difference.

The difference as I understand is that in the kingdom of G-d there are no economic classes (neither rich nor poor).  And there is individual agency (freedom and liberty).  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what I have missed.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

12 minutes ago, Traveler said:

The difference as I understand is that in the kingdom of G-d there are no economic classes (neither rich nor poor).  And there is individual agency (freedom and liberty).  Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what I have missed.

That depends.  

What do you think socialism is?

[Traveler]

16 hours ago, Carborendum said:

That depends.  

What do you think socialism is?

My understanding is that the term socialism covers a wide range of possible economic systems where some portion or all of the means of production, distribution and exchanges necessary for a community is overseen and /or controlled by that community rather than individual private ownership and operations.

How do you define socialism?

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

43 minutes ago, Traveler said:

How do you define socialism?

I'll answer that question. But I need to point out that the definition of how it is supposed to work is very different than the philosophy behind it and the actual results it generates.

Understand that the "wide range" you speak of is not the overall system.  It is the level of implementation of said system.  Most developed nations today have some hybrid between capitalism and socialism.

I'm going to slightly summarize your definition to align with what the dictionary says (for proper comparison).

"And economic system where some or all of the property and natural resources are publicly owned."  (By "publicly" we understand it to mean the government.)

Definition of Socialism per Encyclopedia Britannica:

Quote

The social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources.

Let's extrapolate definitions of the other economic system which we tend to discuss:

Quote

Communism: A social and economic doctrine which defines all property and resources to be owned communally.

Capitalism: A social and economic doctrine which defines all property and resources to be owned privately.

Law of Consecration: A social, economic, and religious doctrine which defines all property and resources to be owned by God.

I'm going to assume that you and I agree that if we all lived the Law of Consecration, then we'd all be better off.  So, let's see how we can come closest to achieving that prior to the Millennium.

• Do we achieve it by having the government force it upon us?  Nope.
• Do we achieve it by having everyone give up all property and not be able to control any natural resources?  Nope.
• Do we achieve it by being systematically motivated to give of our talents and abilities so that others may benefit from it?  Yes.

Socialism forces it upon us.  That is not the Law of Consecration.

Communism achieves it by completely destroying everything.  That is not the Law of Consecration.

Capitalism doesn't have anything to do with God.  But it doesn't have anything against God either.  It is neutral.  It is just a tool that we have the freedom to use as we will for good or for evil. 

Some men use their talents and abilities to oppress and gain worldly wealth.  That is not the Law of Consecration.

And if we give of our time, talents, and abilities to the benefit of others, we will reap rewards for which we can give glory to the Lord.  He was the one who provided our talents & abilities.  We need only choose to spend our time using those abilities.

And unlike the other systems, only capitalism gives us the choice to consecrate all things to the Lord.

Edited May 12, 2023 by Carborendum