The Mark of the Beast Begins


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9 minutes ago, Backroads said:

One became very upset in our virtual room when there were kids of different races and later told me the a church leader once talked about keeping to your own kind and how it was like avoiding the Gentiles

Lovely. 

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10 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Lovely. 

There was definitely a bit of mental confusion with this. 

I suppose my end point is that with so many families fleeing from the potentially bad influences of traditional school, Satan has upped his game.  I don't think anything is thoughtlessly safe these days. Saying, "I left traditional school, my kids are safe and my work is done" is a dangerous mindset.

I have a few good buddies who homeschool. They have told horror stories of some of the truly awful misguided people they'll see in co-ops and play groups. 

Not knocking homeschooling or other options. Just saying not all is well even in that educational Zion.

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1 minute ago, Backroads said:

l. They have told horror stories of some of the truly awful misguided people they'll see in co-ops and play groups. 

 

Before I became LDS the only home schooler I knew had an absolutely horrific story of sexual abuse than I still cringe at. It spoiled my view of homeschoolers for years. Now, my views are much more nuanced-But I’m still uncomfortable with it. I feel that teaching is a skill that not everyone has. 

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31 minutes ago, Backroads said:

One became very upset in our virtual room when there were kids of different races and later told me the a church leader once talked about keeping to your own kind and how it was like avoiding the Gentiles.

My, they sound like simply charming people. For what it's worth, I serve in the temple, and the most humble and reverent people I have seen so far have been Latino. Also, I don't think the word gentile means what they think it means. It makes no sense anyway since we have been told to take the gospel to the gentiles.

31 minutes ago, Backroads said:

One was upset over kids who couldn't sit still on camera (I tend to turn off their cameras after so long if they can't get it together, but Mom said it the kid was a bad example and influence and this is what she wanted to avoid).

All kids...everywhere. Do they not remember being a kid? Are their kids statues at home all day? If so, I feel bad for those kids.

32 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Another was uncomfortable with all "city kids" as corrupt influences.

I would ask them to define "city". Most people in Utah don't know what a city is...they have never left the state. Downtown Ogden or Riverdale aren't cities. The only city we really have is SLC, and it is a very small city. Drop those folks in the middle of Houston or Atlanta and they would have a panic attack.

I have seen some good ol' country boys cause more mayhem than city kids ever could. Again, along the lines of race, it goes back to culture/family, not location.

37 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Multiple admitted they were hoping virtual school would keep them immune from child abuse charges.

Unless I am grossly misunderstanding this, those people sound extremely odd, or just need help.

38 minutes ago, Backroads said:

All of these claimed church teachings somewhere along the line.

People love to cherry pick one or two sentences from old apostles (usually out of context) and cite it as modern doctrine, and the basis for their "holier than thou" attitude.

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51 minutes ago, Backroads said:

when there were kids of different races and later told me the a church leader once talked about keeping to your own kind and how it was like avoiding the Gentile

I hope you weren't wondering if you were the one who was wrong on this one.

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5 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I hope you weren't wondering if you were the one who was wrong on this one.

Not on this one, but stuff about behaviors gave me mental disequilibrium. 

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11 minutes ago, Backroads said:

Not on this one, but stuff about behaviors gave me mental disequilibrium. 

Teachers can only do so much. From where I'm standing, those parents need to model better behaviors for their children.

I was a pediatric nurse for 5 years, and can't tell you how many children I saw with mental health problems that were a direct reflection of their parent's attitudes and behavior. Children truly learn to deal with problems by watching how their parents do it.

Edited by scottyg
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32 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I have a few good buddies who homeschool. They have told horror stories of some of the truly awful misguided people they'll see in co-ops and play groups.

The problem with some who homeschool is the same as the problem with some who use public schools, which is the same as the problem with every human being: Taking responsibility. To take responsibility for your children's education does not mean simply disenrolling them from public school. That may be a first step, but there are ten thousand more steps after that. People want to check something off their checklist and have it done with. For many things, that works. For educating your child, it does not.

Homeschooling is not a discrete activity. Homeschooling is best described as a lifestyle. Life itself becomes the school. Topics are not taught individually, divorced from their application in life; rather, the child is introduced to life's tasks and wonders in the context of the skills being taught, e.g. math.

There are those who listen to people (like me, perhaps) who decry the state of public education and suggest that homeschooling might be the best possible alternative. Those people, in a fit of pique, might then pull their children from the public schools. This in itself is not bad, and could be the first step to something good. But again, steps 2 through 10,001 must be taken, or the children are little better off than they were, and in at least some cases are actually worse off.

Homeschooling is not an event. Homeschooling is a lifestyle choice. You don't have to be perfect at it, just as you don't have to be perfect at any life choice you make, at least to begin with. You simply need to be dedicated to the tasks before you and humble enough to see when you're wrong or don't know what you're doing and get help. In my view, what we call "homeschooling" is really just family and friends taking care of each other, the way God intended us to live. If you give honest effort, you will very probably be okay and your children will benefit greatly from your sacrifices. If you think you can simply hand the kids a book and the TV remote, your children will get few if any benefits from your efforts.

I'm an advocate and perhaps an evangelist for homeschooling. But implicit in that advocacy is the idea that you actually homeschool your children.

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12 minutes ago, Vort said:

The problem with some who homeschool is the same as the problem with some who use public schools, which is the same as the problem with every human being: Taking responsibility. To take responsibility for your children's education does not mean simply disenrolling them from public school. That may be a first step, but there are ten thousand more steps after that. People want to check something off their checklist and have it done with. For many things, that works. For educating your child, it does not.

Homeschooling is not a discrete activity. Homeschooling is best described as a lifestyle. Life itself becomes the school. Topics are not taught individually, divorced from their application in life; rather, the child is introduced to life's tasks and wonders in the context of the skills being taught, e.g. math.

There are those who listen to people (like me, perhaps) who decry the state of public education and suggest that homeschooling might be the best possible alternative. Those people, in a fit of pique, might then pull their children from the public schools. This in itself is not bad, and could be the first step to something good. But again, steps 2 through 10,001 must be taken, or the children are little better off than they were, and in at least some cases are actually worse off.

Homeschooling is not an event. Homeschooling is a lifestyle choice. You don't have to be perfect at it, just as you don't have to be perfect at any life choice you make, at least to begin with. You simply need to be dedicated to the tasks before you and humble enough to see when you're wrong or don't know what you're doing and get help. In my view, what we call "homeschooling" is really just family and friends taking care of each other, the way God intended us to live. If you give honest effort, you will very probably be okay and your children will benefit greatly from your sacrifices. If you think you can simply hand the kids a book and the TV remote, your children will get few if any benefits from your efforts.

I'm an advocate and perhaps an evangelist for homeschooling. But implicit in that advocacy is the idea that you actually homeschool your children.

I think this might be the best description of what home schooling should be that I’ve ever read.

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1 hour ago, Backroads said:

There was definitely a bit of mental confusion with this. 

I suppose my end point is that with so many families fleeing from the potentially bad influences of traditional school, Satan has upped his game.  I don't think anything is thoughtlessly safe these days. Saying, "I left traditional school, my kids are safe and my work is done" is a dangerous mindset.

I have a few good buddies who homeschool. They have told horror stories of some of the truly awful misguided people they'll see in co-ops and play groups. 

Not knocking homeschooling or other options. Just saying not all is well even in that educational Zion.

We've been told that there will come a time when we cannot tell whither is truth except by listening to the Holy Ghost.  We cannot depend on those around us.  No borrowed oil anymore.

Most of our private school is pretty good as far as ideology.  It was based on an LDS homeschooling philosophy.  But there are those who buy into worldly ways.

No, nowhere is perfectly safe.  Even our instructors at church are not safe.  The manuals the Church has made are more about following the Spirit than about actual gospel "factoids" or doctrinal knowledge.

We do the best we can, and we hope things will get better.  But only vigilance will keep us on the path.

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

The problem with some who homeschool is the same as the problem with some who use public schools, which is the same as the problem with every human being: Taking responsibility. To take responsibility for your children's education does not mean simply disenrolling them from public school. That may be a first step, but there are ten thousand more steps after that. People want to check something off their checklist and have it done with. For many things, that works. For educating your child, it does not.

Homeschooling is not a discrete activity. Homeschooling is best described as a lifestyle. Life itself becomes the school. Topics are not taught individually, divorced from their application in life; rather, the child is introduced to life's tasks and wonders in the context of the skills being taught, e.g. math.

There are those who listen to people (like me, perhaps) who decry the state of public education and suggest that homeschooling might be the best possible alternative. Those people, in a fit of pique, might then pull their children from the public schools. This in itself is not bad, and could be the first step to something good. But again, steps 2 through 10,001 must be taken, or the children are little better off than they were, and in at least some cases are actually worse off.

Homeschooling is not an event. Homeschooling is a lifestyle choice. You don't have to be perfect at it, just as you don't have to be perfect at any life choice you make, at least to begin with. You simply need to be dedicated to the tasks before you and humble enough to see when you're wrong or don't know what you're doing and get help. In my view, what we call "homeschooling" is really just family and friends taking care of each other, the way God intended us to live. If you give honest effort, you will very probably be okay and your children will benefit greatly from your sacrifices. If you think you can simply hand the kids a book and the TV remote, your children will get few if any benefits from your efforts.

I'm an advocate and perhaps an evangelist for homeschooling. But implicit in that advocacy is the idea that you actually homeschool your children.

You totally get it.

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On 7/6/2022 at 10:57 AM, LDSGator said:

I think the mark will be literal-though I’m sympathetic to those who think it’s symbolic.

My issue is that this is the same as the boy who cried wolf. Christians (and I’m one of them) have said that many, many things are “the mark of the beast” so I take their thoughts on this with a massive grain of salt. 

If it is literal then it is something that those that take it will know what they are doing.

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48 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

If it is literal then it is something that those that take it will know what they are doing.

I actually agree, and that’s one of the reasons why I think the conspiracy theorists who claim that Covid vaccines and UPC codes are the “mark of the beast” are more amusing than outright dangerous. 

Edited by LDSGator
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On 7/8/2022 at 12:03 PM, LDSGator said:

I actually agree, and that’s one of the reasons why I think the conspiracy theorists who claim that Covid vaccines and UPC codes are the “mark of the beast” are more amusing than outright dangerous. 

exactly, God would not condemn people for taking a mark of satan without knowing what it was.

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10 minutes ago, Emmanuel Goldstein said:

exactly, God would not condemn people for taking a mark of satan without knowing what it was.

Not sure that's true. God's condemnation consists of God allowing people to experience the consequences of their choices. If a woman electively aborts her child for selfish purposes, that murder affects her. It changes who she is. It alters her relationship with Deity and with her fellow man. She has literally become a different person. Is that not a mark of Satan? And will the woman not experience the condemnation she has brought upon herself? I think the answer to both questions is no. (Or maybe yes. Darn that negative phraseology!)

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2 hours ago, Vort said:

Not sure that's true. God's condemnation consists of God allowing people to experience the consequences of their choices. If a woman electively aborts her child for selfish purposes, that murder affects her. It changes who she is. It alters her relationship with Deity and with her fellow man. She has literally become a different person. Is that not a mark of Satan? And will the woman not experience the condemnation she has brought upon herself? I think the answer to both questions is no. (Or maybe yes. Darn that negative phraseology!)

This is interesting to consider.

The Greek word "Charagma" (the mark) can mean:

  • A stamp, or imprinted mark (sounds like a "brand" to me -- as in slaves).
  • Something carved or a graven work.

I wonder if this dual meaning is intentional. 

It seems interesting to me that man creates idolatrous gods to mold them into whatever they want, so they can do whatever they want.  But in the end it turns out that the reward is according to the Lord's plan, not ours.

Quote

For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold, ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he doth seal you his; therefore, the Spirit of the Lord hath withdrawn from you, and hath no place in you, and the devil hath all power over you; and this is the final state of the wicked.

 -- Alma 34:35

Quote

Therefore, I would that ye should be steadfast and immovable, always abounding in good works, that Christ, the Lord God Omnipotent, may seal you his, that you may be brought to heaven, that ye may have everlasting salvation and eternal life, through the wisdom, and power, and justice, and mercy of him who created all things, in heaven and in earth, who is God above all. Amen.

When I read these opposing uses of the word "seal", I see two very different pictures.

  • We procrastinate the day of our repentance.
  • We are branded as a slave to the devil. 
  • We inherit all that Satan has.

OR

  • We humble ourselves before the Lord, we repent, and continue in "good works".
  • We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise.
  • We inherit all that the Father hath.

Why, oh, why are we so quick to choose the former rather than the latter?

I remember a quote from Joseph (help me with the reference if someone can) saying something like "The devil only has such power over us as we allow him."  And I do believe this also covers possession.  Although, I'm not too certain on the details.

I can conceive of a person who is considered your "basically good guy" that even does a lot of "good works" as perceived by man, but continues to procrastinate repentance.  In fact, he figures, he's doing enough good works that he just doesn't bother with repentance.  Cain sacrificed to the Lord, but it was counted unto him for naught because he never humbled himself before the Lord.  He never repented.

Repentance is the first fruits of faith in the Lord.  Without repentance, nothing else even matters.

I am being moved to believe that in the past, the "Mark" may have very well been figurative.  But I see history and realize there is a pattern.

  • We begin with cycles of wondering from the Lord, and we take on figurative marks.
  • The society degenerates slowly with each successive generation.
  • Eventually, they take upon themselves a real/literal mark.
Quote

13 Now we will return again to the Amlicites, for they also had a mark set upon them; yea, they set the mark upon themselves, yea, even a mark of red upon their foreheads.

14 Thus the word of God is fulfilled, for these are the words which he said to Nephi: Behold, the Lamanites have I cursed, and I will set a mark on them that they and their seed may be separated from thee and thy seed, from this time henceforth and forever, except they repent of their wickedness and turn to me that I may have mercy upon them.

 -- Alma 3:13-14

I find it interesting that the Lord said He would set the mark on them.  But the fulfilment was that they set it upon themselves. 

In the US, we have always seen changes in fashion and culture that indicate a desire to separate one group of people from another group of people.  It is as if we create and adopt "cultural uniforms".  In many ways, we do this because we want to "identify" with a certain group.  It is our way of saying "We're this category of person, so treat us accordingly."  But for some reason, people don't really like it when we treat them like that category that they have chosen.

It is entirely possible that a similar cultural tendency will drive John's "mark".  Thus it could be a literal seal or brand (or tattoo???).  And it seems that they will tend to set it on themselves.  But that seems less important than the reason the mark even exists. 

  • Rebellion
  • Pride
  • Procrastinate/ignore repentance
  • Be true to man (or ourselves) rather than true to the Lord.
  • Mockery from the great and spacious building against those who want to hold fast to the iron rod and partake of the fruit.
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  • 2 months later...

So, the news about Visa and the categorizing of gun sales should be a red flag for everyone.

Yes, for now it is only about infringing on our 2nd Amendment rights. But this is just the beginning.  It is only a dry run. It is to work out all the kinks and streamline the process so that people are used to it to the point that we will not be able to do anything without their system.

The power of the banking industry is going to be used to ENFORCE moral authority without the protection of the government, but rather with it's blessing.  IOW, it will be used to infringe on the 1st Amendment.

  • Religion
  • Speech
  • Press
  • Assembly
  • Petition the government for grievances

And it will be legal because it is all private industry doing it, not the government.  Private industry puts their hands in the cookie jar, then hands over all the information to the government without a warrant.  Perfectly legal.  Doesn't violate the Constitutional rights of the individual. 

The government doesn't have their hands in the cookie jar.  Private industry does (with our permission) and then the government magically receives the cookie from a cookie fairy.  Their hands are not in the cookie jar.

THAT is the Mark of the Beast.

Forget name tags.  Forget credit cards.  Forget tattoos.  Forget anything that you believe is a physical mark or token of any type.  The MECHANISM being used to control financial transactions based on the morality of the person in charge of the global financial source is the Mark of the Beast.

At first it will only be about "don't do things that might make people think you're a terrorist.  But as we all know, power never stops at such obvious conditions.  This is just the beginning.  Eventually, if you don't address a teller by their preferred pronouns, you will not be allowed to bank with ANYONE.

Unless this turns around, I am terrified by this, folks.  It may not even take a full generation.  I thought it would be more gradual.  But this is moving a whole lot faster because we live in the digital age. 

  • There is a will
  • There is the power
  • There is the technology
  • There is the social and political ideology that has been preached to prepare the people to receive this new doctrine to the point it will not be stopped by government or society.
  • And the public is asleep having heard too many cry wolf about the Mark of the Beast.  "It's just figurative! Chill out! Don't have a cow!"
  • This recession is going to make many more people kneeling before the unemployment or welfare office than kneeling before an altar of the Lord.  (Hierarchy of Needs).

Please, start praying for Superman.  (I hope I don't have to define what that means again).

Edited by Carborendum
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On 7/7/2022 at 11:50 AM, LDSGator said:

I think this might be the best description of what home schooling should be that I’ve ever read.

That's because you never saw my bumper sticker:

 

warning_unsocialized_homeschool_kids_on_board_bumper_sticker-r6b7d2719aed14e7cb25115b1b535a6f7_v9wht_8byvr_512.jpg

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On 9/17/2022 at 4:44 PM, Carborendum said:

And it will be legal because it is all private industry doing it, not the government.  Private industry puts their hands in the cookie jar, then hands over all the information to the government without a warrant.  Perfectly legal.  Doesn't violate the Constitutional rights of the individual. 
 

We already see this with Big Tech (Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc...). Facebook, you can only hold any view "Facebook" esteems as right. If not, flagged, suspended, etc...

Google, no more talking about the ineffectiveness of mask wearing, and many other things. Even if you are presenting logical facts from research that shows otherwise. Nope, you can't talk, you can't share, we control the narrative of what is right.

Facebook in cahoots the FBI that Zuckerberg revealed regarding potential misinformation. Wasn't it the government, Biden's entourage who said they are working privately with Facebook and getting information -- or something to that nature.

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4 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

We already see this with Big Tech (Facebook, Twitter, Google, etc...). Facebook, you can only hold any view "Facebook" esteems as right. If not, flagged, suspended, etc...

Google, no more talking about the ineffectiveness of mask wearing, and many other things. Even if you are presenting logical facts from research that shows otherwise. Nope, you can't talk, you can't share, we control the narrative of what is right.

Facebook in cahoots the FBI that Zuckerberg revealed regarding potential misinformation. Wasn't it the government, Biden's entourage who said they are working privately with Facebook and getting information -- or something to that nature.

Correct.  My point here is that social media doing this was just a baby-step.  If push came to shove, we would all easily leave social media.  We could find alternatives.

But to take away our ability to engage in legal commerce?  That's the very definition of the Mark of the Beast.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Quote

You must not... 

Provide false, inaccurate or misleading information...

...

If you are a seller and receive funds for transactions that violate the Acceptable Use Policy, then in addition to being subject to the above actions you will be liable to PayPal for the amount of PayPal’s damages caused by your violation of the Acceptable Use Policy. You acknowledge and agree that $2,500.00 U.S. dollars per violation of the Acceptable Use Policy is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPal’s actual damages

  -- Paypal User Agreement

With the state of big tech nowadays, do you really trust them to make a reasonable judgment about what is false? inaccurate? or misleading?

Nothing to see here.  There is no Mark of the Beast.

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