Coincidences and our nation’s borders

[Traveler]

I have been fascinated by history had how things that seemed so bad in history, yet have ended up changing things in the future for the good and have been means for “doors” to have opened up to bring about the restoration of Zion in the last days.  One such example could be the reign of King Henry the Eighth.   He was perhaps one of the worst kings ever in the history of Englund.  When he finely died many changes came about because of the fear of such tyrannical despotism.  It opened the door for the protestant reformation that led to the English translation of the scriptures and the eventual effort for those seeking religious freedom to brave the rigors of settling in the Americas and establishing a nation based upon the liberty of the citizens and not just a select nobility.  All of which made it possible for the restoration of lost scriptures and the laws, ordinances and covenants of Christ.

This bring me to a particular scripture in 2Nephi 1:6-8

Quote

6 Wherefore, I, Lehi, prophesy according to the workings of the Spirit which is in me, that there shall none come into this land save they shall be brought by the hand of the Lord.

7 Wherefore, this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity; if so, it shall be because of iniquity; for if iniquity shall abound cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever.

8 And behold, it is wisdom that this land should be kept as yet from the knowledge of other nations; for behold, many nations would overrun the land, that there would be no place for an inheritance.

What I would put forth to the forum is the seemingly paradox of verses 6 and 8.  As I have pondered this scripture I speculate that it is both a warning and a prophesy about our current situation of our border (mostly our southern border).   Would anyone be interested in discussing this matter?  Does this scripture alter anyone’s political thinking concerning our borders here in the USA?

 

The Traveler

[mikbone]

[laronius]

10 hours ago, Traveler said:

I have been fascinated by history had how things that seemed so bad in history, yet have ended up changing things in the future for the good and have been means for “doors” to have opened up to bring about the restoration of Zion in the last days.  One such example could be the reign of King Henry the Eighth.   He was perhaps one of the worst kings ever in the history of Englund.  When he finely died many changes came about because of the fear of such tyrannical despotism.  It opened the door for the protestant reformation that led to the English translation of the scriptures and the eventual effort for those seeking religious freedom to brave the rigors of settling in the Americas and establishing a nation based upon the liberty of the citizens and not just a select nobility.  All of which made it possible for the restoration of lost scriptures and the laws, ordinances and covenants of Christ.

This bring me to a particular scripture in 2Nephi 1:6-8

What I would put forth to the forum is the seemingly paradox of verses 6 and 8.  As I have pondered this scripture I speculate that it is both a warning and a prophesy about our current situation of our border (mostly our southern border).   Would anyone be interested in discussing this matter?  Does this scripture alter anyone’s political thinking concerning our borders here in the USA?

 

The Traveler

Those verses look like they could be a chiasmus with "it shall be a land of liberty unto them; wherefore, they shall never be brought down into captivity" at the center. As such I don't see a paradox in verses 6&8 but rather one explaining the why and how of the other.

Are you equating the "this land" to the USA? I've always wondered about what specifically the Lord had in mind concerning these promises in the latter-day. While all of the Americas may constitute the promised land it's clear that the USA alone has lived up to those promises. So I'm curious what your take on that is.

One thing that hasn't changed is the Lord has reserved these lands for his own purposes. Now what those purposes are is a bit murky, especially in relation to our neighbors. But the Lord will do as he pleases. We have no claim on this land beyond what He wills.

[askandanswer]

I've sometime wondered whether verse 6 implies the possibility of God having a hand in shaping US immigration policy. But then, as Iaronius has pointed out, the phrase "this land" is a bit vague.

I think its highly likely that there is no country in any of the American continents of which it could be said that the only people who migrate there are those who have been brought up by the hand of God. 

[Ironhold]

10 hours ago, mikbone said:

Spain - Original European power to colonize the region

France - A French colony ship headed for Louisiana got lost in a storm and landed in the area now known as Matagorda Bay. Even though they knew they were in the wrong place they decided to set up a colony anyway and were eventually evicted. 

Mexico - The nation that came after the local settlers threw off Spain. 

Republic of Texas - The nation that came after the local settlers threw off Mexico.

United States - The Republic of Texas was unable to survive due to debts incurred and joined up.

Confederacy - Texas sided with the Confederacy

[Vort]

4 hours ago, Ironhold said:

Spain - Original European power to colonize the region

France - A French colony ship headed for Louisiana got lost in a storm and landed in the area now known as Matagorda Bay. Even though they knew they were in the wrong place they decided to set up a colony anyway and were eventually evicted. 

Mexico - The nation that came after the local settlers threw off Spain. 

Republic of Texas - The nation that came after the local settlers threw off Mexico.

United States - The Republic of Texas was unable to survive due to debts incurred and joined up.

Confederacy - Texas sided with the Confederacy

The six flags:

• Red: RUN! NOW!
• Green: What are you waiting for, you fool? Marry this girl!
• Yellow: Careful, Buckaroo. She may not be ready. Or maybe it's you.
• Blu/blanc/rouge: French femme dead ahead.
• Rainbow: Sleep while you can, because you'll spend the rest of your life woke. (This is a flashing neon variation of red.)
• Black: Use for roach infestation.

[Just_A_Guy]

I tend to get leery about trying to adapt ancient prophecy to modern political circumstances; especially for the purpose of developing and implementing civic policy.

That said:  3 Nephi 20:14-17 seems to indicate that at some point during the last days the seed of the Lehites will be in (probable military) conflict with the seed of the “Gentiles” (Europeans?) who colonized the land; and that the seed of the Lehites will prevail at least over that portion of the Gentiles who will have rejected the Gospel.

*Even if* we assume that this does indeed foretell some kind of ethnic or race war within the borders of the modern USA—why on earth would we, as Latter-day Saints, take political steps to identify ourselves with the side that a) the prophecy describes as being (more) wicked, and b) the prophecy strongly implies will lose?

[The Folk Prophet]

22 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

(probable military)

This strikes me as a pretty big guess -- akin to the Jews presuming The Messiah would be a military leader come to free them from Rome.