The spirit body

[Greg]

The prophet Joseph Smith taught that the spirit body is made of matter, more fine than our mortal body can see.  How then can more than one spirit inhabit a mortal body if the spirit is made of matter?  In Luke 8:30 we read of the Savior casting out a "legion" of spirits that had possessed one mortal body.  Are spirit bodies compressed against each other to fit in a confined space such as our mortal body?

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, Greg said:

The prophet Joseph Smith taught that the spirit body is made of matter, more fine than our mortal body can see.  How then can more than one spirit inhabit a mortal body if the spirit is made of matter?  In Luke 8:30 we read of the Savior casting out a "legion" of spirits that had possessed one mortal body.  Are spirit bodies compressed against each other to fit in a confined space such as our mortal body?

Welcome Greg!

We don’t know what this finer matter is.

Its certainly not matter as our scientist currently understand.

So many options.

Dark Matter, Organized photons, something we cannot detect or comprehend.

God is not confined to our current understanding of physics.

There are some scientist that propose we are living in a computer simulation.  God is probably pretty good with code.

Edited March 29, 2023 by mikbone

[zil2]

Welcome to ThirdHour, @Greg!  I would only add that we also don't really know the mechanics of "being possessed".  Were they occupying the same physical space?  Were they following him around in a crowd?  Is there a fourth dimension?  We just don't really know anything more than what the scriptures say, and they're silent on the mechanics of it...

[laronius]

If a spirit can occupy the same space as a physical body which is less "fine" I don't see why it couldn't occupy the same space as another more fine body. Obviously we don't know the science behind it but if fineness is the reason behind one it would seem plausible for being the reason behind the other.

[Just_A_Guy]

One analogy may be the idea of a box that seems “full” of bowling balls, but then it is still perfectly capable of accommodating large quantities of a “finer” material such as sand.  

[zil2]

30 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

One analogy may be the idea of a box that seems “full” of bowling balls, but then it is still perfectly capable of accommodating large quantities of a “finer” material such as sand.  

I'm not sure I like the suggestion that I'm full of bowling balls...  But then, I guess there are worse things to be full of...  And I actually enjoy bowling, so...  Nevermind.  Nothing to see here.  Moving on.

[askandanswer]

On 3/30/2023 at 5:35 AM, Greg said:

The prophet Joseph Smith taught that the spirit body is made of matter, more fine than our mortal body can see.  How then can more than one spirit inhabit a mortal body if the spirit is made of matter?  In Luke 8:30 we read of the Savior casting out a "legion" of spirits that had possessed one mortal body.  Are spirit bodies compressed against each other to fit in a confined space such as our mortal body?

This incident gives reason to suppose that when more than one spirit inhabits a body, there is an increased likelihood that the functioning of that body and mind will somehow be affected. Maybe as a result of overcrowding, and maybe not. We know nothing about the compressability of spirits. It may be that our body can easily handle at least two spirits - our own spirit, and the Holy Ghost, although I believe that Joseph Smith taught that the notion that the Holy Ghost inhabits our bodies is an old sectarian notion.

And they were all filled with the ^aHoly Ghost, and began to speak with other ^btongues, as the ^cSpirit gave them utterance.

Edited March 30, 2023 by askandanswer

[Traveler]

On 3/29/2023 at 2:05 PM, Greg said:

The prophet Joseph Smith taught that the spirit body is made of matter, more fine than our mortal body can see.  How then can more than one spirit inhabit a mortal body if the spirit is made of matter?  In Luke 8:30 we read of the Savior casting out a "legion" of spirits that had possessed one mortal body.  Are spirit bodies compressed against each other to fit in a confined space such as our mortal body?

Thank you for posting your question on this forum – Welcome.  As a scientist, I tend to look at matter as defined by science.  Often, I have pondered what spirit matter might or could be.  One of the possibilities I have considered, and favor is that spirit matter may be matter of differing dimensions.  My concept of differing dimensions (though similar) are quite different than the notions of a multiverse expressed in comic book philosophy.  It is possible that objects of differing dimensions can intersect or interact.  In such cases (depending on the orders of dimensions) such interactions can be “invisible” or undetected by objects natural to one or either of the dimensions. 

Perhaps if I give the example of the intersection of two-dimensional space with 3-dimensional space.   The two dimensional space could be represented by a sheet of paper with objects in 2 dimensions appearing on the sheet of paper.  As an observer in 3 dimensional space it would be easy to observe all that takes place in the two dimensional space but for someone in two dimensions would observe very little of the 3 dimensional space – just on occasions when  a part of an object from 3 dimensions touches the paper.  But the observer in 2-dimensional space would only see limited occasions of touches in their dimensions. 

As I have pondered these notions I have pondered if dark matter and dark energy are indications in our 3 dimensional universe of other dimensions intersecting our space time universe. 

 

The Traveler

[romans8]

21 hours ago, Traveler said:

Perhaps if I give the example of the intersection of two-dimensional space with 3-dimensional space.   The two dimensional space could be represented by a sheet of paper with objects in 2 dimensions appearing on the sheet of paper.  As an observer in 3 dimensional space it would be easy to observe all that takes place in the two dimensional space but for someone in two dimensions would observe very little of the 3 dimensional space – just on occasions when  a part of an object from 3 dimensions touches the paper.  But the observer in 2-dimensional space would only see limited occasions of touches in their dimensions. 

As I have pondered these notions I have pondered if dark matter and dark energy are indications in our 3 dimensional universe of other dimensions intersecting our space time universe.

Could spirit children of heavenly parents (as taught in this church) be created in the image of 3-dimensional
beings or be okay as 2-dimensional offspring that later became 3-dimensional on earth?

When I read the following from Gospel Principles, I would say 3 dimensions.

All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after
death, even if they die as infants or children.

[Traveler]

On 4/1/2023 at 7:54 AM, romans8 said:

Could spirit children of heavenly parents (as taught in this church) be created in the image of 3-dimensional
beings or be okay as 2-dimensional offspring that later became 3-dimensional on earth?

When I read the following from Gospel Principles, I would say 3 dimensions.

All spirits are in adult form. They were adults before their mortal existence, and they are in adult form after
death, even if they die as infants or children.

I used the concept of 2 dimensional space intersecting with 3 dimensional space to demonstrate a possible disadvantage of someone in a lower dimensional space.  It is interesting that in the creation epoch explained in scripture that man was made in the image and likeness of G-d.  We use pictures created in 2 dimensions to provide an image and likeness of many things – trees, landscapes, even maps of things that exist in 3 dimensions. 

But there is more for consideration.  It is possible that there are dimensions that intersect with our space that are beyond our 3 dimensions.  It is also possible that there are more than one collection of dimensions that intersect with our space.  What is interesting to me is that many spirits seem to be able to occupy the same 3 dimensional space that a physical body occupies in this universe.  In quantum physics there are seemingly physical entities called bosons that are different from fermions which cannot occupy the same space as other fermions.  But bosons have no problem occupying the same space with any number of other bosons. 

There are also what is called quantum coupling of particles – both fermions and bosons that defy dimensions and transfer information, seemingly beyond the speed of light – which could be explained by intersecting dimensions.  LDS theology has long supported the notions of variations of time which has affects also on dimensional space.  Theoretical Trinitarian Christianity, on the other hand has fought science since the days of Galileo and has lost every argument that they thought would disprove G-d and as a result have created a class of atheists that are mostly just tired of arguing with those that refuse to acknowledge things that can be seen.

 

The Traveler

[romans8]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:02 PM, Traveler said:

What is interesting to me is that many spirits seem to be able to occupy the same 3 dimensional space that a physical body occupies in this universe. 

Do you have an example of how many is "many"?

[zil2]

50 minutes ago, romans8 said:

Do you have an example of how many is "many"?

My name is Legion: for we are many, Mark 5:9 (Luke 8:30).

[mikbone]

1 hour ago, romans8 said:

Do you have an example of how many is "many"?

From wikipedia

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

is a phrase that, when used in modern contexts, can be used as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value, or on questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence, while more urgent concerns accumulate.