The United States House just made history

[Phoenix_person]

For the first time in history, the Speaker of the House has been removed from his seat. 

👀

https://thirdhour.org/forums/topic/60241-who-won-the-debate/?do=findComment&comment=886561

[JohnsonJones]

So, Matt Gaetz allied with the Democrats to vote McCarthy out.

Great...just Great.

Only 8 Republicans voted to oust the Speaker.  Gaetz had more support from the Democrats than the Republicans.  What a Hypocrit.  And he decided to get the Speaker out because the Speaker made a deal with the Democrats? 

Someone remind me why they haven't kicked him out of congress yet...isn't the investigation ready to be prosecuted yet (didn't it start before Trump's...why is Trump in court before Gaetz??)

 

PS: Just want to add, the Democrats took the bait.  Because of this I expect chaos to reign in the house even more than it was.  Good Luck on stopping a Government shutdown...at this rate they'll be fighting all the way past the shutdown date!  If we get a shutdown, because the Democrats fully supported this mess, I expect they cannot get out of the blame now if it gets to that point.  Before this, they could largely be seen as blameless.  With this, it can be seen that they are only trying to continue the discord in Republicans and promote an internal strife amongst the Republican party to the loss of all. 

Hopefully some good comes out of it, but right now I just see a LOT of division in Congress to the point that it's not functioning. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by JohnsonJones

[prisonchaplain]

2016 I was holding my nose to vote. 2020 I cut off my nose to vote.  2024 Please, please let NO LABELS succeed! 

[Traveler]

I have believed for a long time that the difference between the Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats say the wrong things and do the wrong things.  The Republicans say the right things and do the wrong things.  It is possible that a change is taking place among the republicans or some republicans in the House?

If a change in Washington takes place – then a lot of career creatures (both elected and unelected) of the swamp need be upset.  Will congress actually fulfill promises to pass separate budgets for separate parts of the government?  Instead of one budget for all the pork hidden everywhere? – could we have a separate budget for the military, another budget for education, another for homeland security and another for welfare and so on?

I seriously doubt it – I believe that the Republican leadership will eat their own first (with the help of the swamp of course) – especially the 5 (or what-ever the number was) republicans that risked everything they get from being elected to fulfill their campaign promises.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

11 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

2016 I was holding my nose to vote. 2020 I cut off my nose to vote.  2024 Please, please let NO LABELS succeed! 

One of the prophesies in the Book of Mormon warns of secret criminal organizations in the government of this land in the last days.  I know some very wonderful people that consider themselves liberals – especially with ideas that we ought to have compassion for the sick and poor among us (many of whom are in our prisons and jails).  I am not concerned with liberals in government – I am concerned with criminals that say they are helping the poor and when in reality they are stealing from the sick and the poor to make themselves and their criminal corporate (and other) friends rich.

 

The Traveler

[Phoenix_person]

5 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

PS: Just want to add, the Democrats took the bait.  Because of this I expect chaos to reign in the house even more than it was.  Good Luck on stopping a Government shutdown...at this rate they'll be fighting all the way past the shutdown date!  If we get a shutdown, because the Democrats fully supported this mess, I expect they cannot get out of the blame now if it gets to that point.  Before this, they could largely be seen as blameless.  With this, it can be seen that they are only trying to continue the discord in Republicans and promote an internal strife amongst the Republican party to the loss of all. 

The Democrats didn't owe McCarthy anything. They did the politically expedient thing, which was to let the GOP eat itself. And make no mistake, the GOP would have done the same if the roles were reversed. I have no confidence that McCarthy could have avoided a government shutdown, and he would have blamed Dems for it. Now if the shutdown happens, all fingers will be pointing at the House GOP, and just in time for election season.

[LDSGator]

10 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The Democrats didn't owe McCarthy anything. They did the politically expedient thing, which was to let the GOP eat itself. And make no mistake, the GOP would have done the same if the roles were reversed. I have no confidence that McCarthy could have avoided a government shutdown, and he would have blamed Dems for it. Now if the shutdown happens, all fingers will be pointing at the House GOP, and just in time for election season.

Everything you said here is exactly right. 

[Traveler]

13 hours ago, Phoenix_person said:

The Democrats didn't owe McCarthy anything. They did the politically expedient thing, which was to let the GOP eat itself. And make no mistake, the GOP would have done the same if the roles were reversed. I have no confidence that McCarthy could have avoided a government shutdown, and he would have blamed Dems for it. Now if the shutdown happens, all fingers will be pointing at the House GOP, and just in time for election season.

What this proves is that the Democrats are more concerned with their party than they are about the country.  We are a house divided and do not need any enemies other than ourselves – obviously it is more fun to vilify and blame than to solve anything.  The real question is if we will have a shutdown to save or destroy our country.  Finger pointing in the long term is irrelevant.

If anyone in politics is going to drain the swamp – they will have to begin with their own political party.  Which is why they will never win even a primary of any significance.  

 

The Traveler

Edited October 4, 2023 by Traveler

[LDSGator]

21 hours ago, Traveler said:

obviously it is more fun to vilify and blame than to solve anything.

Didn’t you just do this to the democrats: 

21 hours ago, Traveler said:

What this proves is that the Democrats are more concerned with their party than they are about the country.  

 

[NeuroTypical]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd put this here.  Keeping with the just-made-history atmosphere of the thread, and not-vilifying folks, I'd like to praise the Biden administration and his DHS secretary for building a bunch more wall on the southern border, despite Biden's "not another foot" campaign pledge.  It's nice to see the Biden administration stepping up to continue the important work of the Trump administration, and Obama administration before that, and probably further back than that.  And all it took was a hundred screams of anguish from Democrat Governors and Mayors across the country.

Build baby build!

And just look at all those restrictive acts getting brushed aside!

https://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/BidenBorderBarriers.pdf
 

Quote

SUMMARY: The Secretary of Homeland Security has determined, pursuant to law, that it is necessary to waive certain laws, regulations, and other legal requirements in order to ensure the expeditious construction of barriers and roads in the vicinity of the international land border in Starr County, Texas.
...
The United States Border Patrol's (Border Patrol) Rio Grande Valley Sector is an area of "high illegal entry." As of early August 2023, Border Patrol had encountered over 245,000 such entrants attempting to enter the United States between ports of entry in the Rio Grande Valley Sector in Fiscal Year 2023.

Therefore, I must use my authority under section 102 of IIRIRA to install additional physical barriers and roads in the Rio Grande Valley Sector. Therefore, DHS will take immediate action to construct barriers and roads.
...
I hereby waive in their entirety, [...] the following statutes, as amended:

The National Environmental Policy Act
the Endangered Species Act
the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (commonly referred to as the Clean Water Act
the Migratory Bird Treaty Act
the Migratory Bird Conservation Act
the Clean Air Act
the Archeological Resources Protection Act
the Paleontological Resources Preservation Act
the Safe Drinking Water Act
the Noise Control Act
the Solid Waste Disposal Act, as amended by the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act
the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act
the Archaeological and Historic Preservation Act
the Antiquities Act
the Historic Sites, Buildings, and Antiquities Act
the Farmland Protection Policy Act
the National Wildlife Refuge System Administration Act
National Fish and Wildlife Act of 1956
the Fish and Wildlife Coordination Act
the National Trails System Act
the Administrative Procedure Act
the Eagle Protection Act
the Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act
the American Indian Religious Freedom Act
and the Federal Land Policy and Management Act

Alejandro N. Mayorkas,
Secretary.
U.S. Department of Homeland Security.
[FR Doc. 2023-22176 Filed: 10/4/2023 8:45 am; Publication Date: 10/5/2023]

[zil2]

I'm all in favor of better border security, but if someone can just declare various laws null and void (even temporarily), without congress or anything, just as a head of department, then either those laws ought to be revoked in their entirety, because they aren't really needed, or something is very very wrong.  (And I ought to be able to declare various speed limits null and void, for me, at least... )

[mirkwood]

54 minutes ago, zil2 said:

something is very very wrong. 

Yep.

 

 

Quote

(And I ought to be able to declare various speed limits null and void, for me, at least... )

[zil2]

2 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Lets face it, most speed limits are what they are because of those who drive stupidly (or because cities want speeding-ticket money).  If all people drove intelligently, many (not all) of our speed limits could be safely raised.  Personally, I think driver education should be much more extensive, but that would also make it expensive, and no one would tolerate that in this country.

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Didn’t you just do this to the democrats: 

 

Two things concern me.  First is that all the elected Democratic representatives voted to remove the speaker.  This despite that if the “rouge” Republicans get their way or can move the house even a little to the right, the new speaker will be more difficult for the Democrats to work with, and this goes far beyond what happens in just in the House of representatives.   The second thing is what is being said by the media (including Fox) about the Republicans – mainly that the Republicans are falling apart and are incapable of operating their role in running the government. 

If there is one thing I have learned about politics – if all the representatives (especially in a politically divided country) vote together without any decent – the people are not being represented.  Likely not even being considered.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

46 minutes ago, zil2 said:

Lets face it, most speed limits are what they are because of those who drive stupidly (or because cities want speeding-ticket money).  If all people drove intelligently, many (not all) of our speed limits could be safely raised.  Personally, I think driver education should be much more extensive, but that would also make it expensive, and no one would tolerate that in this country.

I believe that much more goes into the “science” of public safety on our roads. Beginning with the design and layout of roadways.  Even the density of use and intersections can affect speed limit designs.  Sadly, we have learned that despite research and laws based on the design and use – we have learned that without enforcement (Thanks to  @mirkwood) of the law, most citizens that use the roads will break the law and endanger everybody and think they are intelligent enough to suffice and that everybody else that inconveniences them is stupid and foolish.

I would also note that this comes from someone that if driving at off hours (night for example) and comes upon a red traffic light – is unlikely to wait in zero traffic for the light to change.

 

The Traveler

Edited October 5, 2023 by Traveler

[askandanswer]

5 hours ago, zil2 said:

(And I ought to be able to declare various speed limits null and void, for me, at least..

I hereby declare all speed limits below 60 mph null and void for Zil2 between the hours of 2:59 am – 3:00 am between the locations of Emigration Canyon and Point of the Mountain

Always happy to help a friend. Show this to @mirkwood next time he pulls you over.  

[JohnsonJones]

On 10/3/2023 at 10:46 PM, Phoenix_person said:

The Democrats didn't owe McCarthy anything. They did the politically expedient thing, which was to let the GOP eat itself. And make no mistake, the GOP would have done the same if the roles were reversed. I have no confidence that McCarthy could have avoided a government shutdown, and he would have blamed Dems for it. Now if the shutdown happens, all fingers will be pointing at the House GOP, and just in time for election season.

 

I think some of the Democrats recently criticized the Republicans about being more concerned about Party then governing.  IT would appear correct to some measure.  It also has four fingers pointing back to Democrats with this.

They are hypocrites as well.  If they were actually concerned about governing rather than trying to make political points they would not have voted out the Speaker.  We have less than 45 days now to have them to stop a government shutdown.  They couldn't do it with 9 months with a SPEAKER...and now they have even less time.  At least the Speaker worked with them (even at the last minute). 

Now...no one can actually govern with the House until a new Speaker is chosen.  With the Disarray of the Republicans, we don't know when that will be.  With each day the time get's closer to a shutdown.  If the Democrats were so concerned with governing instead of putting their party first (just like they accused the Republicans) they would have been more concerned with that.

They seem to have this fantasy about having a Democrat elected speaker and that this is the way to do it.  Even if that fantasy were to happen, it would probably ONLY happen if there was a time crunch before the government shut down.  In that instance, the time left to work out a way to prevent a government shutdown would probably be extremely short.  The chances of a government shutdown increase dramatically more each day.

To me, it appears they are no more concerned with Governing than the Republicans in this instance.  It's ALL ABOUT THE PARTY rather than what is good for the United States and it's citizens.  They want to blame the Republicans...well...the US public has news for them.  The problem isn't Republicans or Democrats...but almost EVERYONE in House because EVERYONE seems to be putting their OWN interests ahead of the nation and it's people for which they are supposed to be actually concerned about.

[JohnsonJones]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:45 AM, mirkwood said:

Yep.

On 10/5/2023 at 9:50 AM, zil2 said:

I'm all in favor of better border security, but if someone can just declare various laws null and void (even temporarily), without congress or anything, just as a head of department, then either those laws ought to be revoked in their entirety, because they aren't really needed, or something is very very wrong.  (And I ought to be able to declare various speed limits null and void, for me, at least... )

 

 

So, having vistied Utah awhile ago (and I may have mentioned this before somewhere) while those North of Salt Lake seemed to follow speed limits, it seemed almost NO one followed speed limits South of Salt Lake.  I would say they already declared the speed limits null and void in the area from Salt Lake City to Spanish Fork in Utah.  I've never seen a place where they so flagrantly ignored the speed limit.  I was driving the speed limit and was the slowest person on the Road!

I've never see any place as bad as that for ignoring speed limits (and I've been to a lot of places...some have problems, but not as flagrantly as SLC)!

To me it appears as if the speed laws are already null and void in SLC!

I will say humorously though that in the Middle East, especially on the Arabian Peninsula many of the family (you have those who are actually citizens, they are normally part of a tribe and many of them are extremely rich and own very expensive cars) will drive no where close to the speed limit, driving as fast as they can.  At the same time the majority of the populace (who are normally foreigners...being either TPNs [which many would say are the equivalent of slaves there] or those visiting on business drive under the speed limit (the fines are extremely harsh).  Citizenship wise, they probably equal South SLC for speedsters, but populace wise, no where close. 

[LDSGator]

On 10/7/2023 at 2:11 PM, JohnsonJones said:

was driving the speed limit and was the slowest person on the Road!

@JohnsonJones, I got love for you bro. But I’ve heard this about Utah, Florida, Boston, Atlanta, California, Texas, Illinois, Virginia, Montana…

 

[Vort]

On 10/5/2023 at 10:22 AM, Traveler said:

“rouge” Republicans

All part of the great media conspiracy, labelling Republicans with commie red and Democrats with patriot blue.

PS This is very much truth in jest.

[LDSGator]

@Vort-would you say Seattle traffic is (generally speaking) as bad as LA, SF and SLC? 

[Vort]

Just now, LDSGator said:

@Vort-would you say Seattle traffic is (generally speaking) as bad as LA, SF and SLC? 

I'd say it's worse than SLC but not as bad as LA. Don't know about SF. That's a pretty area, but one I would not want to live in.

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Vort said:

I'd say it's worse than SLC but not as bad as LA. Don't know about SF. That's a pretty area, but one I would not want to live in.

Thanks. From my own experience Baltimore-DC-Fredericksburg-Richmond has the worst traffic in the world.  It’s like one giant mess from Boston down to southern Virginia!!

[Phoenix_person]

34 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Thanks. From my own experience Baltimore-DC-Fredericksburg-Richmond has the worst traffic in the world.  It’s like one giant mess from Boston down to southern Virginia!!

Having grown up in the DMV area, I agree. MD drivers are the actual worst. Texans complain about their drivers, but they're really quite tame. 

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, Phoenix_person said:

Having grown up in the DMV area, I agree. MD drivers are the actual worst. Texans complain about their drivers, but they're really quite tame. 

Dude I tried to tag you but couldn’t spell “Phoenix”, got distracted and forgot. Glad you posted!!!!!