"Protestant Mormons"

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Ben Shapiro posted this on social media.  I think it is 100% accurate.

 

I think it has application to this as well:

 

 

 

Since I specifically said this: 

 

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

. Two, I’m not advocating a change in teaching.

I’m not sure why you quoted me. 

[prisonchaplain]

Witch hunts are always destructive. Buzz words can be just as damaging. For example, when I taught 7th graders history last year we touched on the poor treatment of enslaved Africans. We also covered the forced treaties Native Americans had to sign--which were then broken by U.S. and state governments. Was I guilty of teaching CRT. Of course not, but THAT is how witch hunts sometimes go. Being aware of actual injustice is labeled as woke. Citing a legitimate case of racial bias or injustice is labeled CRT. Citing anything left of Glen Beck makes one a bleeding heart Democrat (or Communist). :::Sigh:::  Cancel culture is terrible--unless we're doing it--in the name of our faith, of course. 

[LDSGator]

34 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Witch hunts are always destructive. Buzz words can be just as damaging. For example, when I taught 7th graders history last year we touched on the poor treatment of enslaved Africans. We also covered the forced treaties Native Americans had to sign--which were then broken by U.S. and state governments. Was I guilty of teaching CRT. Of course not, but THAT is how witch hunts sometimes go. Being aware of actual injustice is labeled as woke. Citing a legitimate case of racial bias or injustice is labeled CRT. Citing anything left of Glen Beck makes one a bleeding heart Democrat (or Communist). :::Sigh:::  Cancel culture is terrible--unless we're doing it--in the name of our faith, of course. 

I agree with every word you said here. Of course this isn’t CRT. 
 

And welcome to the club. Unless you agree with MAGA 110% of the time you’ll be accused of being a commie. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by LDSGator

[LDSGator]

My sympathies here are with two people: the leadership of the church and the liberal/moderate/agnostic on politics in the pews who just want to feel the spirit, go to the temple and not have their beliefs or voting actions questioned. The church leadership-bishops, stake president-(I am convinced of this) probably just sit there exasperated and say “Can’t we all just get along?!”

 

It puzzles me that LDS/Christians ask why their church is struggling in attendance and then insist on making divisions, playing the True Scotsman card, blaming “liberals”…you don’t need to be a communist to see how silly it is. If they do this to those groups and look for reasons to exclude people, they’ll do it to me too eventually. Even if I agree with them on everything and look the same!!!

Edited October 30, 2023 by LDSGator

[Vort]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

It puzzles me that LDS/Christians ask why their church is struggling in attendance and then insist on making divisions, playing the True Scotsman card, blaming “liberals”…you don’t need to be a communist to see how silly it is.

Let me point out that what we say in this forum is not necessarily representative of what we say at Church or among Saints in the flesh. On this forum, an opinion/conversation/discussion forum, I am willing to voice ideas and viewpoints in explicit and blunt terms that I would be hesitant to do in a casual, friendly meeting of a group of Saints (e.g. an elders quorum party) and would probably refuse to do at church.

In my experience, blaming lack of attendance or participation on mean things said at Church is usually an excuse rather than a legitimate complaint. Such supposed offenses are often much lighter than represented or even non-existent. I can think of many examples through the years. I can also think of examples of people who really were treated offensively and who stuck it out. Sadly, I can think of a few where the offense, though not intended (or not intended quite as taken), did cause a rift. But that is the small minority of cases. Even in my own extended family, those who claim being offended are normally just looking for a reason to avoid taking responsibility. Frankly, I find it almost refreshing when a cousin or niece simply says she doesn't want to come to Church any more rather than look around for lame reasons to put the blame elsewhere.

[LDSGator]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

Let me point out that what we say in this forum is not necessarily representative of what we say at Church or among Saints in the flesh. On this forum, an opinion/conversation/discussion forum, I am willing to voice ideas and viewpoints in explicit and blunt terms that I would be hesitant to do in a casual, friendly meeting of a group of Saints (e.g. an elders quorum party) and would probably refuse to do at church.

Understand fully. Excellent points. 

[Traveler]

I would say something about priesthood and the lineage of those that can be ordained to the priesthood of Christ while in mortality.   The first point is that the priesthood is defined by order.  It is proper to reference the priesthood as the “order of the priesthood”.   In Abraham chapter 1 we are taught a principle concerning the order of the priesthood.  That is that the order of the priesthood is provided through the mortal lineage of an individual – to receive the priesthood or to be denied the priesthood.  In Abraham chapter 1 verses 25-26 we learn that following the days of Noah, even the righteous of a particular lineage did not have the right to the priesthood.

We can also learn from various Old Testiment accounts that only the lineage of Levi could receive the priesthood and serve in the ordinances of the priesthood – this despite that some individuals of the proper lineage were wicked and others not of the lineage of Levi, that were righteous, still did not have the blessings of the priesthood.

We learn something else from the Book of Mormon in Alma chapter 13 concerning another important point concerning the order of the priesthood.  That is that those that receive the priesthood in mortality were ordained in the pre-existence.   The reason that we are given for this ordination was because of their “exceeding faith and good works”.  We must be careful because this scripture does not tell us that all the exhibited “exceeding faith and good works” were so ordained; only that those that were ordained did meet this criteria.  In all of scripture there is no indication that women of any dispensation of mortality have right to the priesthood.  It is my speculation that in eternity women will (with their husbands) have right to the priesthood.   It is also my speculation that in eternity no man will have right to the priesthood without their wife.  But there is no official revelation that I am aware of that makes this matter known.

It is my personal understanding that we ought to be careful how we address things that G-d brings to pass according to order known to him, that he has not made known to the world.  According to the oath and covenant of the priesthood – if, having received the priesthood, we reject (note that the word reject most likely has connotation beyond what many think) our chosen and ordained prophets, seers and revelators based in assumptions that G-d has not made know to men of the world --- That such is a violation of the of the oath and covenant of the priesthood.  And that such a violation, does in eternity, have consequences (D&C 84:41).

 

The Traveler

[mirkwood]

6 hours ago, LDSGator said:

Since I specifically said this: 

 

I’m not sure why you quoted me. 

It was applicable.  Did you think it was a personal attack?

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

Did you think it was a personal attack?

Sadly not. 😉

[JohnsonJones]

12 hours ago, Traveler said:

.

We learn something else from the Book of Mormon in Alma chapter 13 concerning another important point concerning the order of the priesthood.  That is that those that receive the priesthood in mortality were ordained in the pre-existence.   The reason that we are given for this ordination was because of their “exceeding faith and good works”.  We must be careful because this scripture does not tell us that all the exhibited “exceeding faith and good works” were so ordained; only that those that were ordained did meet this criteria.  In all of scripture there is no indication that women of any dispensation of mortality have right to the priesthood.  It is my speculation that in eternity women will (with their husbands) have right to the priesthood.   It is also my speculation that in eternity no man will have right to the priesthood without their wife.  But there is no official revelation that I am aware of that makes this matter known.

 

Tricky, this is not official doctrine that I am aware of...

I have heard that the Patriarchial Order, or specifically, that Order of Priesthood that you cannot enter singly, but must enter with a spouse and obtain when you obtain a celestial Marriage, is the Highest Order of Priesthood.  On that, I have the following sections from the Church's site on a quick look (I've had better sources previously, talks from apostles and such, but that would take a lot longer to search out and find).

Blessings of the Patriarchal Order

From Bruce R. McConkie

Quote

Patterned after the Family of God

“We can enter an order of the priesthood named the new and everlasting covenant of marriage (see D&C 131:2), named also the patriarchal order, because of which order we can create for ourselves eternal family units of our own, patterned after the family of God our Heavenly Father.”

From our own Prophet today, but before he was a prophet and was an apostle.

Quote

For Husband and Wife

“Adam held the priesthood. Eve served in matriarchal partnership with the patriarchal priesthood. So today, each wife may join with her husband as a partner unified in purpose. Scriptures state clearly, ‘Neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord’ (1 Corinthians 11:11).”

From Ezra Taft Benson

Quote

Sealed for Eternity

“The order of priesthood spoken of in the scriptures is sometimes referred to as the patriarchal order because it came down from father to son. But this order is otherwise described in modern revelation as an order of family government where a man and woman enter into a covenant with God—just as did Adam and Eve—to be sealed for eternity, to have posterity, and to do the will and work of God throughout their mortality.

“If a couple are true to their covenants, they are entitled to the blessing of the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. These covenants today can only be entered into by going to the House of the Lord.”

 

[Nordic saint]

Protestant Mormons? That's the ones fighting with Catholic Mormons in northern Ireland 🙃