Countdown to presidential election begins

[NeuroTypical]

The Iowa caucus happened. DeSantis barely scraped out a far distant second place over Haley. Vivek is out. Here’s who Iowa Republicans want for president:

 

Get ready for a bumpy ride folks.

[Traveler]

2 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

The Iowa caucus happened. DeSantis barely scraped out a far distant second place over Haley. Vivek is out. Here’s who Iowa Republicans want for president:

 

Get ready for a bumpy ride folks.

Republicans are not so bright.  Trump may be the darling of most stanch republicans, but he is not attractive to the general populace of America.  It is obviously true that the democrats have and continue to screw up everything they touch prompting republicans to think they have (according to stacked pooling) an easy ride to success.  Then on election day they get blown away at the ballot box.

I believe that the bumpy ride of the electoral process is nothing compared to what will come after the election.  It appears to me that political types are more worried with what happened in the last or some previous election than what is coming next (both foreign and domestic).  I learned from white water rafting that there is no reason to think about anything that has happened on the river – regardless of whatever tole was taken to get through any previous hydrologic.  The only thing that matters or is important is to face down the river and prepare for what is coming next.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

Trump may be the darling of most stanch republicans, but he is not attractive to the general populace of America.

Well, "attractive" doesn't mean what it used to.  In 2015-16 when we were all talking Trump, it was hard to find people who openly admitted liking him.  And yet 62 million people voted for him.  A lot of "I held my nose and thought about Hilary, that made it possible".   It's looking like the same here in 2024, because while Hilary was the consummate corrupt politician bent on seizing power, Biden is the consummate corrupt politician who was bent on seizing power 30 years ago but now he's so frail and infirm he might get blown over by a stiff breeze and topple America in the process.   Facing that, who cares if Trump is attractive or not?  He gonna do more things I like and less things I don't like than Biden would?

 

3 hours ago, Traveler said:

I believe that the bumpy ride of the electoral process is nothing compared to what will come after the election.

I'm afraid you'll be right.  No matter who wins.

[Ironhold]

18 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Well, "attractive" doesn't mean what it used to.  In 2015-16 when we were all talking Trump, it was hard to find people who openly admitted liking him.  And yet 62 million people voted for him.  A lot of "I held my nose and thought about Hilary, that made it possible".   It's looking like the same here in 2024, because while Hilary was the consummate corrupt politician bent on seizing power, Biden is the consummate corrupt politician who was bent on seizing power 30 years ago but now he's so frail and infirm he might get blown over by a stiff breeze and topple America in the process.   Facing that, who cares if Trump is attractive or not?  He gonna do more things I like and less things I don't like than Biden would?

 

I'm afraid you'll be right.  No matter who wins.

The senior officials with the Democrats don't understand that Biden and his cabinet have generated such confusion and ill will that there is a real danger a strong candidate would defeat them. Instead, not only are they insisting upon running him, at least one primary has confirmed that nobody *but* Biden will be on the ballot for President.

This is causing people opposed to Biden to have a variety of negative sentiments, including taking this as "proof" of Biden being the puppet of a nefarious third party. Thus, these individuals are largely going over to Trump, who is seen as both the rightful President and the only person who can defeat Biden in a fair election. 

[LDSGator]

43 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Facing that, who cares if Trump is attractive or not?

What’s the best definition of insanity? Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. What makes you think Trump vs Biden II will produce different results than Trump vs Biden I? 

[The Folk Prophet]

12 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

What’s the best definition of insanity? Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results.

People say this all the time. But it's just not true. I mean not even remotely.

Whoever coined this saying clearly never learned to play an instrument. Never learned any sort of physical skill. Never tried to get in shape. Never even heard of the idea of line upon line. Never re-read scriptures. Or other books for that matter. And, it seems, doesn't actually understand the meaning of the word "definition".

Okay...sorry. I'm being a bit meaninglessly contrary for no reason. I just don't like this saying.  

As to the substance of your post, I'm not sure looking at the upcoming presidential race as "the same thing again" in the details works. Sure...it's going to maybe be the same two people. But there's so much else that's changed that it doesn't seem right to write it off this way.

That being said, I agree with you in one regard...one big point that hasn't changed and will likely lead to the same results: The left will do anything to stop Trump. ANYTHING. Lies. No biggie. Impeachments. You betchya. Indictments. Oh yeah. Cheating? Of course. Killing? Would anyone put it past them?

If Trump ends up in the Whitehouse again I'll be truly surprised. But not because I don't think he can beat Biden.

Edited January 16 by The Folk Prophet

[LDSGator]

20 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

People say this all the time. But it's just not true. I mean not even remotely.

People also will blame widespread fraud and conspiracies when Trump loses again. But it’s just not true. I mean not even remotely.

The bitter truth? The majority of voters don’t like him. His supporters can stomp their feet, storm the capital, rant and rave, but it won’t change reality.  

 

As to the repetition thing, I get what you are saying, and I don’t get it. I’ve practiced similar kicks countless times. I do my basics every day. Same with my forms. I DO expect different results. I expect to get better. 

Edited January 16 by LDSGator

[The Folk Prophet]

18 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

People also will blame widespread fraud and conspiracies when Trump loses again. But it’s just not true. I mean not even remotely.

You're saying it, so it must be true.

20 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

The majority of voters don’t like him.

With this point I probably agree. Of course we don't live in a majority rules country.

That being said... "the majority of voters don't like him" as a principle unto itself is honestly partially a result of how the left lies, cheats, and steals.

With as many flaws as Trump has, you'd think they wouldn't need to lie and twist and scheme so much. But talk to any Trump hater and the talking points they'll give as to why are almost entirely falsehoods that the media has spread.

Trump's got some serious character flaws. No doubt. But people aren't refusing to vote for him because he's a braggart, has been sexually immoral in the past, or because he over-inflated property values to take out loans (which he paid back). They call him the next Hitler, a fascist and a racist.

31 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

His supporters can stomp their feet, storm the capital, rant and rave, but it won’t change reality.

Just to put a wee bit of check on the hyperbole here... do you know how many ardent Trump supporters there are in the country? Take out the word "ardent" and... any idea? And do you know how many "stormed" the capitol?

Just curious if you've thought about that. I mean it's a fine tactic to try and put others in their place... you know, crying "INSURRECTION" and all that. But, really? Are you implying that I, who firmly believes that the 2020 election was unfair, filled with fraud and conspiracies (known fraud and conspiracies, I might add, not conjecture), am part and parcel of those who entered the capitol building on JANUARY 6TH (*echoing...JANUARY 6TH, JANUARY 6TH, JANUARY 6TH, JANUARY 6TH....*)?

[LDSGator]

11 minutes ago, The Folk Prophet said:

You're saying it, so it must be true.

50 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

Actually, I copied your words. 

Without question the most amusing thing out there is the hard right ranting about stolen elections while the…hard right…tried to overturn…the election by storming the capital. Odd for the party of law and order.  

I don’t think I’m wrong anymore than you think you are. The issue the right has is that, even if I’m dead wrong, millions of Americans agree with me. So if the right was a little wiser, they’d drop the stolen election rants and focus on winning issues. 
 

The “stolen election” rants is what the losing side always does. No difference from Bush vs Gore. Or Bush Kerry. It happens all the time, it always will.  It’s just another version of the same old story. Winners win, losers make excuses.  Happens in sports, business, personal lives. It’s human nature.
 

I know the drill though. Only the other side whines about stolen elections. When the side I agree with complains it’s totally legit. 
 

Not making excuses means people have to admit they failed.   Which people have a very hard time doing. It requires good ole’ personal accountability and being able to admit they were wrong. 

Edited January 16 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

What’s the best definition of insanity? Doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results. What makes you think Trump vs Biden II will produce different results than Trump vs Biden I? 

Trump v. Hilary = Trump
Trump v. Biden I = Biden

Dude is batting .500.  There are lots of similarities with Biden I, but also lots of differences.  Pre vs. post COVID, Roe v Wade overturned, Biden's obvious decline,   It's not 'the same thing', other than the main players, and they are not who they were 4 years ago either.  (Well, Trump is.  Trump is EXACTLY who he was 4 years ago.  But how he's seen has changed.)

I'm hardly a Trump apologist.  My first decent prediction back in 2016 remains my prediction of a Trump 2nd term:

Quote

President Trump will do a bunch of stuff that you'll hate and I'll like. He'll do a bunch of stuff that you'll like and I'll hate. And then he'll do one or two things that the entire world hates. People will cross aisles and form new alliances in order to stop it, but some of it will happen anyway.

 

[LDSGator]

2 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Biden's obvious decline

That’s what scares me the most. I actually want Biden out of office as much as anyone here, but because Trump has some, uh, “baggage” I think the GOP will shoot themselves in the foot by nominating him. Time will tell. 

[NeuroTypical]

The next two months.  And the entire year is going to look similar:

1/8: Appeals court case regarding immunity around his efforts to overturn the 2020 election
1/10: Closing arguments on civil fraud charges
1/15: Iowa caucuses
1/16: E. Jeanne Carroll defamation case trial begins
1/23: New Hampshire primary
2/8: SCOTUS hears oral arguments on banning Trump from state ballots
2/8: NV caucuses
2/12: Mar-a-Lago Classified documents case starts
2/15: Stormy Daniels hush money hearing
2/24: SC primary
2/27: Michegan primary
 

[LDSGator]

14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

1/23: New Hampshire primary

That’s earlier than I remember it to be. Did they move it to keep their first in the nation status?

[Grunt]

5 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

That’s earlier than I remember it to be. Did they move it to keep their first in the nation status?

It bounces around.  I believe it's been as early as the first week of January or so, but it's typically February/March

[LDSGator]

4 minutes ago, Grunt said:

It bounces around.  I believe it's been as early as the first week of January or so, but it's typically February/March

I vaguely remember SC and Michigan moving their primary around, so I’m not surprised NH did it  

[Grunt]

33 minutes ago, LDSGator said:

I vaguely remember SC and Michigan moving their primary around, so I’m not surprised NH did it  

NH is required by law to be first in the nation.

[The Folk Prophet]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

Actually, I copied your words. 

Without question the most amusing thing out there is the hard right ranting about stolen elections while the…hard right…tried to overturn…the election by storming the capital. Odd for the party of law and order.  

I don’t think I’m wrong anymore than you think you are. The issue the right has is that, even if I’m dead wrong, millions of Americans agree with me. So if the right was a little wiser, they’d drop the stolen election rants and focus on winning issues. 
 

The “stolen election” rants is what the losing side always does. No difference from Bush vs Gore. Or Bush Kerry. It happens all the time, it always will.  It’s just another version of the same old story. Winners win, losers make excuses.  Happens in sports, business, personal lives. It’s human nature.
 

I know the drill though. Only the other side whines about stolen elections. When the side I agree with complains it’s totally legit. 
 

Not making excuses means people have to admit they failed.   Which people have a very hard time doing. It requires good ole’ personal accountability and being able to admit they were wrong. 

You have a bad habit of arguing from the perspective that either side saying something means anything. "The right always say [whatever]" is NOT an argument for anything and it means less than nothing. And while calculated to shut the other side up, has it ever worked? Does it do anything to change viewpoints?

If a team loses because the other side cheated then it lost because the other side cheated. Whether either team makes that claim is irrelevant to that fact. Someone like you coming along and saying "losers whine" as if that's proof there wasn't cheating doesn't do anything to get to the truth. It certainly doesn't weigh in on whether there was foul play or not. So I'm not sure what your game is here other than to try and shame those you disagree with into shutting up. But really, you know me well enough by now. Do you really think you can shame me into shutting up with a claim that I'm whining and being a sore loser?*

The facts are the facts and we should seek those. And I don't care which side of the aisle that's on. Truth should be sought stridently.

Despite your insinuations, it has nothing to do with trying to win the next election or a refusal to admit failure. My concern is about the country falling apart though. But I'm not sure there's anything to be done about that.

These are hard facts: The left suppressed information to sway the vote. The left illegally changed voting practices in swing states. The left lied and lied and lied about Trump again and again.

You don't even have to believe that ballots were stuffed to see that the election was obviously corrupted.

And, yeah...the do-nothing republicans did nothing to stop it. And so they failed. And they'll likely keep failing because they're do-nothing-ers. But that's a very different narrative than "everyone hates Trump so he can't win" which is just not true.

Things aren't the same this time around. Whether the differences will play out as a Trump win or not remains to be seen. I sort of doubt it, because I think they'll probably go so far as to off Trump before letting him in the Whitehouse again. But...we'll see. But the most obvious reason Trump lost last time comes down directly to mail-in voting...which democrats do in much greater numbers than republicans. That may well be different this time around. The republicans, having cottoned on, may well increase their mail-in voting. In places where it's legal, republicans have started talking about using other similar tactics to what the democrats used. (Heck, maybe even extra-legal things, like ballot harvesting, etc.) Kind of an if-you-can't-beat-em, join-em attitude. And that could make the difference. Or it could not.

Like I said, I don't think Trump will end up in the white house again, personally. But it's way more complex that "republicans just can't admit that the majority of people just don't like Trump." WAY more complicated than that.

 

*That being said, I'm not going to shut up from embarrassment or the like, but I might well shut up because, frankly, arguing politics bores me. So I might well drop out here.

Edited January 16 by The Folk Prophet

[LDSGator]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

has it ever worked

Well….

 

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I might well shut up

I guess it just did! 

[The Folk Prophet]

1 minute ago, LDSGator said:

Well….

 

I guess it just did! 

Oh, the shame! 

[Traveler]

6 hours ago, Ironhold said:

The senior officials with the Democrats don't understand that Biden and his cabinet have generated such confusion and ill will that there is a real danger a strong candidate would defeat them. Instead, not only are they insisting upon running him, at least one primary has confirmed that nobody *but* Biden will be on the ballot for President.

This is causing people opposed to Biden to have a variety of negative sentiments, including taking this as "proof" of Biden being the puppet of a nefarious third party. Thus, these individuals are largely going over to Trump, who is seen as both the rightful President and the only person who can defeat Biden in a fair election. 

I would respond to senior officials with the democrats understanding Biden and his cabinet.  It amazes we how forgetful American voters are.  Senior officials in the democratic party when Hillery was Secretary of State and provided intel for international decisions (remember Libya and Benghazi?) were promoted to senior staff positions in Biden’s cabinet and advises him on Iran (can be influenced and controlled diplomatically and with sanctions), Ukraine (would not last more than 48 hours if Russia invaded, Afghanistan withdrawal (Taliban could not take control for months or even years after the US withdrawal – also I doubt 10% of Americans recall the Trump administration requirements of the Taliban for a US withdrawal).  I cannot think of a single international crisis that has occurred in over a decade that Blinken has judged correctly.

Since the establishment of the Great Society under President Johnston the Democrats promised to end poverty and protect the environment.  These two areas have received the most increases in federal funding.  More than any other sector of government spending over the last 50+ years and yet – by the current admissions of all the Democrats running for office – the problems of poverty and environmental issues are worse and in greater need today (our greatest threat to our country and world) of increased funding than ever before.  If we go off of what the Democrats said was necessary in relation to the GDP when all this was initiated – we are currently wasting 94% of our spending on those programs and yet it is still necessary to increase spending.

Sadly – regardless of what republicans promise in their campaigning – government wasteful spending has continued to increase.

 

The Traveler

[NeuroTypical]

Reading SCOTUS filings for their upcoming ruling on kicking Trump off the ballots is often boring, and occasionally something else entirely.

[NeuroTypical]

First Vivek, now DeSantis.

[Grunt]

That doesn't leave many choices.

[LDSGator]

17 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

First Vivek, now DeSantis.

I can’t read his mind, but I think he wanted to get out before he gets shellacked down here. 

[Phoenix_person]

On 1/16/2024 at 2:52 PM, LDSGator said:

What makes you think Trump vs Biden II will produce different results than Trump vs Biden I? 

In a word: Palestine. A lot of leftists (and maybe even some liberals) who reluctantly voted for Biden 4 years ago now have a very concrete reason to not do so again, barring a radical change in the US approach to the Gaza conflict in the coming months.