Really?

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

It is so easy to judge others, isn't it?

Yes and it's fun too! 😜

[NeuroTypical]

Some of the best bishops I've seen, will take the complainers and put them in charge of what ever they're complaining about.  Or at least offer them the calling.  Kind of hard to do with new meetinghouse construction, but it works wonders for people ticked off that the Young Women's program isn't good enough, or when people gripe about how badly the last social activity went.

[LDSGator]

6 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Some of the best bishops I've seen, will take the complainers and put them in charge of what ever they're complaining about.  Or at least offer them the calling.  Kind of hard to do with new meetinghouse construction, but it works wonders for people ticked off that the Young Women's program isn't good enough, or when people gripe about how badly the last social activity went.

I never complained about any calling, but my bishop put me in the boy scouts. I hate camping and virtually all things related to the scouting lifestyle. I didn’t really learn anything-but I can see why bishops do what you said. 

[estradling75]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

It is so easy to judge others, isn't it?

It is... lets see if we can help people better understand what is happening.

It appears we have three local congregations sharing a building (aka the three meeting times)  This is pretty normal. The building was built to local needs, these needs can change over time so they do there best guess to make a right fit.  This is all normal.

However what is different for this location is that it appears to get hit with a vacation surge.  If standing room only is to be believed then it seem they get hit with a 1000% percent-ish increase in demand for a couple weeks of the year.  How long has this been going on... at least long enough to make a sign.. but maybe not long enough to get a bigger building.  Assuming it is considered wise to invest so much in a building for a couple of weeks to a month of need.  I can see why that might not being considered wise.

And we have heard from the disgruntled vacationer about how unchrist-like the locals are in not supporting them in spite of the fact that the locals went to their max to accommodate the vacationers.  But nothing about how unchrist-like the vacationers are being in their entitled expectation that the locals go above and beyond their means and resources in the total disruption of their sabbath day activity.  I can only image that trying to get the sacrament to a standing room only crowd is a significance effort that takes up most if not all of their two hour block.  And the locals are doing it, but all we hear are complaints that it is not enough.

 

 

 

[Jamie123]

1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Some of the best bishops I've seen, will take the complainers and put them in charge of what ever they're complaining about.

 

[NeuroTypical]

3 minutes ago, Jamie123 said:

 

Yep - and although I'm not privy to many of the conversations between complainer and bishop, I'm guessing maybe 95% of them end up with the same conclusion.

[mikbone]

I’ve never been to bear Lake.  But I have been to Park City.  Also a vacation destination.  But the Bishopric embraced the outsiders and made accommodations.  It was one of the better fast and testimony meetings as there were people there from many locations.  They had a very large building with overflowed rooms.  And most of the members just came for sacrament service.  

The members were super friendly too.  Meet and greet portion of meeting war great.  Local members had recommendations of things to see and do.  

Edited September 5, 2024 by mikbone

[Colirio]

How many of these vacationers are paying regular tithes to the local congregations in order to support larger buildings during those busy times of the year? What is the financial status of the members who live in this location year round? 
 

Attendance numbers are only a part of the equation when determining chapel sizes/locations. 

[zil2]

22 minutes ago, mikbone said:

I’ve never been to bear Lake.  But I have been to Park City.  Also a vacation destination.  But the Bishopric embraced the outsiders and made accommodations.  It was one of the better fast and testimony meetings as there were people there from many locations.  They had a very large building with overflowed rooms.  And most of the members just came for sacrament service.  

The members were super friendly too.  Meet and greet portion of meeting war great.  Local members had recommendations of things to see and do.  

Go to Bear Lake.  So different there's no comparison.  NOTE: I recommend you go both in and out of tourist season so you can see the difference - it's a nightmare and a half during tourist season - which I discovered entirely by accident by making the mistake of traveling through it on the way to or from some other place I've since forgotten.  It was a parking lot - and that was 20 years ago.  It doesn't look any bigger, so I doubt it's any better, except maybe around Garden City....  If you want the worst possible experience, go during their raspberry festival (or whatever it's called).

3 minutes ago, Colirio said:

What is the financial status of the members who live in this location year round? 

Garden City looks wealthier and newer, but everywhere else looks like long-time residents and typical rural properties - not likely a lot to spare.

[Traveler]

So much has changed during my lifetime.  I remember in high school 4 friends went to Mexico on a SCUBA trip.  We were all members of the Church so wanted to attend Church in Mexico for the experience.  Back then there were less than 1 ½ million members worldwide.  We found a little branch to attend and the members there went nuts to welcome Utah Saints (especially the youth).  Many were so poor they were barefoot (we were way overdressed) and yet they wanted to feed us and go without themselves (back then there was no block – church was an all-Sabbath day event so those that had long distances to travel brought food to eat between morning and afternoon sessions). 

Nowadays many places are overwhelmed with visiting members.  A few decades ago, my family was welcomed to a ward but asked to only attend sacrament meeting because there were so many visitors we could not be accommodated in classes (including priesthood).  I was somewhat surprised because I grew up thinking priesthood meetings were mandatory for priesthood holders.   In a visit to my ancestry home in Demark the wife and I attended a ward that was so overwhelmed with visiting members (thanks to a cruse ship) that they ran out of headphones for listening a translation.

The wife and I attended a ward meeting listed on the church website while visiting Glacier National Park.  Come to find out that the entire ward had only 3 members – a bishop and two counselors.  Their whole purpose was to provide a sacrament meeting for visiting members.  All normal functions (talks, prayers, music, sacrament etc.) were selected for visiting members with temple recommends.

Note to other travelers – if you are on vacation and want spectator only status – do not get to Church until the last minute.  If you are willing to participate show up early – the earlier the better.

 

The Traveler

[mikbone]

18 minutes ago, Colirio said:

How many of these vacationers are paying regular tithes to the local congregations in order to support larger buildings during those busy times of the year?

Usually those people taking vacations are making decent money.  And if they are going to church during their vacation they are probably paying their tithing.

If you show up to sacrament meeting in hiking gear you probably should re-evaluate your choices though.

Local congregations no longer are paying for the local church buildings.  That ended decades ago.

[mikbone]

7 minutes ago, Traveler said:

Note to other travelers – if you are on vacation and want spectator only status – do not get to Church until the last minute.  If you are willing to participate show up early – the earlier the better.

 

With 11 children.  I feel like I am constantly herding cats.  We are lucky to get to the local ward on time.  Let alone being on community hospital call 27 days of the month.  

Someday my life will become less hectic.

[estradling75]

The local congregation does not really get to choose the size of it buildings, nor does it get to choose the what the local building/fire-code ordinances are.

It does get to choose if it obeys the local ordinances and how it response to a large influx of members.

If it chooses to violate local safety ordinances its going to get shut down especially if it does so with any kind of predictability.  If it gets shut down... then no one gets the sacrament.  A congregation choosing to serve the maximum people it can legally with in the walls of it building seems eminently Christ like.  While having to turn people away because they did not get there in time is a hard thing to do...  but its got scriptural support.  (See parable of the Ten Virgins)   

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

With 11 children.  I feel like I am constantly herding cats.  We are lucky to get to the local ward on time.  Let alone being on community hospital call 27 days of the month.  

Someday my life will become less hectic.

An idea from my wife that worked wonders for our family – started when I was in a bishopric and she had all the kids (quite young) to deal with on her own.  In essence, it was a 3-tier reward system that she came up with:

First tier.  There were 5 things each child was expected to do for church and they got a reward (candy) for each one.  Not sure I remember all five but they were like 1. Be ready for Church 5 minutes before expected. 2. Bring your scriptures.  3. Sing the hymns  4. Be reverent and not disruptive – especially during the passing of the sacrament (up to 3 warnings max from mom)    5. Attend class without complaints from instructor.

Second tier. If all 5 were completed and achieved an extra much larger treat was achieved.

Third tier.  If all the children achieved the second tier a big treat was given to the whole family.

I think it worked because each kid wanted the second-tier treat.  And the family reward got enough attention that the older kids became shepherds of the younger.  It became easy for the wife to be on time and she got many comments on how reverent and good our kids were

Two caveats – 1. When kids were small (infants) the wife would hold training sessions at home teaching the infants to sit quietly for an hour in the front room.  We never took kids our of church meetings.   2. When youngest son returned from his mission – first day back from church he expected and asked for his treat thinking it was a perinate family tradition.

Last note – this got us through raising our kids but 2 have gone inactive and not returned.  It is my theory that parents can only have influence for so long.  Eventually kids will determine their path.  Our family in heaven experienced this reality as well.

One last note - we only had 5.  If you find something for 11 - I am sure your reward will be much greater.😇

 

The Traveler