The priesthood and Black african men

[Traveler]

1 hour ago, LDSGator said:

I have over 25 tattoos and I actually agree with you. I judge people with and without tattoos. 
 

I also have long hair, a beard, and curse all the time. I have a feeling you and I would make a great comedy team if we were ever assigned to do home teaching together!!!!! 

Worse yet, what if we both were called to minister to each other.

The only thing I know for sure concerning people with tattoos is that they are uncomfortable in their own skin.

What I would say about hair; if you want to use up all your hormones growing hair – I am not going to stop you.  It is not that my hair fell out – it fell in and gave me a lot of hairbrained ideas.

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

34 minutes ago, HaggisShuu said:

The church culture prejudice against beards is something I can't wrap my head around.

I don't think there's currently prejudice among the members (at least, not here in Utah).  That doesn't mean older people aren't holding on to traditional standards of what was considered "respectable".  Any more, I'd guess it's mostly cultural (even if the culture is Church culture).

PS: I miss your avatar!  Please bring it back or add another.

[Traveler]

43 minutes ago, HaggisShuu said:

The church culture prejudice against beards is something I can't wrap my head around. ....

 

It is because you have it backwards - it is something you wrap around your head.

 

The Traveler

[HaggisShuu]

19 minutes ago, zil2 said:

PS: I miss your avatar!  Please bring it back or add another.

I tried changing it but kept getting told that the file size was too big. So I gave up! Perhaps I will try again. 

[HaggisShuu]

23 minutes ago, zil2 said:

I don't think there's currently prejudice among the members (at least, not here in Utah).  That doesn't mean older people aren't holding on to traditional standards of what was considered "respectable".  Any more, I'd guess it's mostly cultural (even if the culture is Church culture).

From what I understand, BYU for a long time has had/did have a clean shaven or else policy, and I'm not aware of a single General Authority sporting facial hair. 

[zil2]

7 minutes ago, HaggisShuu said:

I tried changing it but kept getting told that the file size was too big. So I gave up! Perhaps I will try again. 

Edit the file to resize it!   The disk-space limit is 50kB.  Mine is 121x121 pixels.  FWIW.

ETA: The default image is 150x150pixels.

Edited June 10 by zil2

[zil2]

4 minutes ago, HaggisShuu said:

From what I understand, BYU for a long time has had/did have a clean shaven or else policy, and I'm not aware of a single General Authority sporting facial hair. 

So, BYU, missionaries, and perhaps still some callings, have rules, but that doesn't apply to the general membership.  To me, "prejudice" means "we're gonna treat you differently (in a negative way) if you show up with a beard".  That doesn't happen (as far as I can tell).

The rules for certain people in certain positions are because the rules related to appearance will facilitate what they're trying to accomplish - let's face it, the world judges by appearance whether we like it or not, and looking "clean" and "respectable" goes a long way toward facilitating missionary work and what the GAs are trying to accomplish.  (And a lot of those BYU boys will stand a better chance of getting a date if they look more like a missionary than someone in a grunge band. And half the purpose of BYU is to get people married.)

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, HaggisShuu said:

The church culture prejudice against beards is something I can't wrap my head around. If every man in the Church had a Joseph F. smith tier beard, I guarantee that the growth would be explosive.

The beard and long hair thing became a thing in the 60s.  

In WWI, chemical weapons were a concern.  And this sparked the practice of being clean shaven.  That has remained a part of military culture ever since.

During WWII, virtually all men of age joined the military and were clean shaven.  By the 1950s, most men of age didn't have beards because they had spent time in the service during WWII.  That was when it became "normal" for men to be clean shaven.  Only old men had beards.  And most of them were fairly short and well groomed.  George Albert Smith was the last LDS Prophet to sport a beard (he departed this earth in 1951).

In the 60s, sporting a beard and having long hair was a sign of rebellion (hippies).  It was a cultural thing, not an eternal thing.  But it was frowned upon by people of many different stripes.

In the 70s, longer hair and beards were coming back.  At least, it wasn't nearly as anathema as they were in the 60s.  Yet, it still wasn't what considered "clean cut."

And it has gradually shifted into what we have today.  Some people have it.  Some don't.  It isn't exactly a scandal.  And most don't "turn their noses up" at is.  But it is less common in "proper company."

[HaggisShuu]

Perhaps this is more suited the chatgpt wisdom thread, all I did was tell chatgpt that I am an admirer of Joseph F. Smiths beard and the response made me chuckle:

Quote

You’re not alone—Joseph F. Smith’s beard is legendary. It’s not just facial hair—it’s a full-on manifestation of prophetic gravitas.

 

Seriously, his beard is more than just a style. It radiates:

 

Wisdom – Like he’s read the entire Standard Works before breakfast.

Authority – The kind of beard that doesn’t ask for respect—it quietly commands it.

Masculinity – Not macho, but deeply rooted, fatherly, and composed.

Survivor Energy – That beard crossed plains, buried children, faced down mobs, and sent missionaries across oceans.

 

 

Here he is at his prime: beard like a throne of righteousness, eyes like he sees through your excuses, suit sharp enough to rebuke apostasy.

 

If ever there was a beard that said, “I am not to be trifled with, but I will love you fiercely if you’re faithful,”—it was Joseph F. Smith’s.

 

 

 

 

🤔 Want to Know the Backstory?

 

 

He began growing that beard in the 1860s–70s.

It became almost symbolic of his fatherhood (biologically and spiritually).

By the time he was prophet (1901–1918), the beard was fully matured, like his testimony: broad, deep, and immovable.

 

 

He kept it until the end—like a banner of steadfastness in a changing world.

 

 

 

If you ever grow a beard with even half that majesty, people might just ask you to preside over General Conference.

 

Edited June 10 by HaggisShuu

[Ironhold]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

And it has gradually shifted into what we have today.  Some people have it.  Some don't.  It isn't exactly a scandal.  And most don't "turn their noses up" at is.  But it is less common in "proper company."

It also varies from person to person as to why they choose to grow facial hair. 

In my case, when I was in junior high there were two other students who had similar appearances to me, such that teachers often confused us if we were in the same class. 

When I got to high school I discovered that the student handbook allowed us to have mustaches, and so I let mine grow out, much to the chagrin of my mom, who did everything possible to try and get me to shave it off. Once it was grown out, the three of us were never again confused for one another. 

I've since allowed the mustache to grow into a full Van Dyke - style number, and I've also begun sporting mutton chops as with my high blood pressure there are certain parts of my face to where if I tag myself while shaving it takes a prolonged period for the bleeding to stop. 

I use an electric razor to keep my facial hair trimmed, and a disposable to remove what hair I don't want as part of my style. 

[LDSGator]

On 6/10/2025 at 8:30 PM, Ironhold said:

When I got to high school I

My high school had a full appearance code too. I thought then, and still do today, that it was silliness. But, as a minor I didn’t have a say in the matter. 
 

The moment I left home at 18 I grew a mustache, beard and long hair. Never looked back. I look like I’m 17 clean shaven. I hate it. 

Edited June 12 by LDSGator

[SilentOne]

3 hours ago, LDSGator said:

I look like I’m 17 clean shaven.

How long has it been since you've seen yourself cleanshaven? Maybe you look 18 or 19 now.

[LDSGator]

12 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

How long has it been since you've seen yourself cleanshaven? Maybe you look 18 or 19 now.

That’s actually a good question!

[JohnsonJones]

On 6/9/2025 at 5:43 AM, Carborendum said:

That doesn't explain how all the descendants of Joseph (Ephraimites and Menassehites) could hold the priesthood when they were also descended from Pharoah.

So, the history of the bible, and the history we hear in religions and churches do not always match what we read in history itself.  

History during that time period in Egypt is probably the Middle Era and a Golden Era for Egypt.  It was also a different dynasty than the original Pharaohs of Egypt.  In that light, historically speaking, the Pharaoh may or may not have been directly related to the original Pharaoh (some would say it definitely had connections, others would say it would have been impossible for there to be a connection between them...genetically speaking.  It depends on the historian and the slant they are taking.  Some of the opinions are more popular than others).  

Obviously we have problems if there is a direct line between the two, but if there is no connection between them (and we are talking hundreds of years and more...historically speaking rather than religiously speaking as the start of the Egyptian rulers and those of the Middle Kingdom would be quite vast)

[Omergideon]

15 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

History during that time period in Egypt is probably the Middle Era and a Golden Era for Egypt.  It was also a different dynasty than the original Pharaohs of Egypt.  In that light, historically speaking, the Pharaoh may or may not have been directly related to the original Pharaoh (some would say it definitely had connections, others would say it would have been impossible for there to be a connection between them...genetically speaking.  It depends on the historian and the slant they are taking.  Some of the opinions are more popular than others).  

It is always worth considering that the time gap between Abraham and Joseph, whilst only 3 generations (Abraham to Isaac, to Jacob, to Joseph), is not a short period at all. Abraham visited Egypt relatively early in his reported 120+ year lifespan, Isaac was not supposed to be especially young when Jacob was born and Joseph was the second youngest of his sons, and at least some 20 years pass between Jacob's adulthood and Joseph going into Egypt (14 years working for Laban and then some). The Pharoah at the time of Joseph would be well over a century removed from Abraham's time.

Just looking at some dates suggested for all of this (and frankly we don't know when it all happened all too well) there could be 2 or 3 whole Dynasties between the 2 Pharaohs with almost no actual family relation at all (Each Dynasty tends to make it a century or so) or them even coming from functionally different ethnic groups.