Jesus and Mary

[Ruben]

When Jesus addressed his mother he called her "woman" instead of mother.

Nowadays this name for a mother seems a little rude.

How was it seen in Jesus' time?

[zil2]

This was in a general conference talk.  I don't have time this morning - have to go visit family - it's a holiday here...  But you can look up the verse where this is recorded, go to the Scripture Citation Index, and see what talks are linked to this verse - that might find it for you.  If not, and no one else has already responded, I'll look at this again after today....

Note: the answer is that it was a term of respect.

[mikbone]

I can't imagine Jesus being rude to any woman, least of all his mother.

It's easy to get confused when we apply today's liberal agenda and microaggressions against a person from a different time and place with a different culture and language.  

[LDSGator]

1 hour ago, mikbone said:

It's easy to get confused when we apply today's liberal agenda and microaggressions against a person from a different time and place with a different culture and language.  

I totally agree with you, but one does not have to be a liberal to find it annoying/offensive to be addressed as “woman.” Again though, the time of Christ was different. 

If you walk up to a guy with down’s syndrome and say “Hey look at the re—-d ha ha ha ha” and Jane says “That’s rude, knock it off” that makes Jane a decent person, not “woke” or a “liberal”. Some terminology is rude and offensive. 
 

You also lose the right to clutch your pearls at swear words if you walk around using words that polite society thinks are antiquated or offensive. After all, if you won’t watch your language I don’t have to either. 

[LDSGator]

Yes, the “r word” is much worse than “woman”, but if I walked up to your wife or daughter and addressed them as “woman” you would probably be less than thrilled.    

[Anddenex]

The common interpretation we have today is what @zil2 and others have already expressed -- a term of endearment/respect, or simply a common word to address a "married female" at that time. This is also one I think we think too deeply on much like me calling a non-biological "Woman" Mother. If someone a thousand years later read a statement of mine calling this other "Woman" Mother, I can see someone saying, "Why does Anddenex call this woman Mother when she isn't his mother"? 

In the New Testament the word "Woman" is used multiple times, Christ used the word "Woman" in the following verses of scripture (emphasis in scripture mine):

John 4: 21, "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father."

Luke 13: 12, the woman with a spirit of infirmity of eighteen years, "Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity."

John 2: 4, to his mother with the wine and the first time Jesus uses the word Woman to his mother (that we have written), "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."

John 19: 26-27, before his death on the cross, "26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! 27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home."

John 20: 13, 15, resurrected Jesus to Mary, "13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou?"

According to possible interpretation and thoughts from previous prophets, Mary could have been a wife to Jesus, and he used the word "Woman" to her just as he did with other women.

I can easily see a possible interpretation that upon knowing his death was soon (for the second time he said Woman to his mother) that this was more a plea/invitation to John to take care of his mother. Woman, as your son/Savior is dying, behold a new son. Then to John please take care of my mother! I will be gone, but John will take care of you.

I don't think we need to look too deep in a cultural word used at that time.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by Anddenex

[zil2]

11 hours ago, zil2 said:

This was in a general conference talk.  I don't have time this morning - have to go visit family - it's a holiday here...  But you can look up the verse where this is recorded, go to the Scripture Citation Index, and see what talks are linked to this verse - that might find it for you.  If not, and no one else has already responded, I'll look at this again after today....

Note: the answer is that it was a term of respect.

I couldn't find the talk, so maybe my memory is wrong.  But I found it in the institute manual - scroll down to John 2:4.

[laronius]

My dad would call my mom "Woman" on a regular basis because of how Jesus used the term. She took it in the way it was intended. Intent matters. Especially in the light that God's final creation was woman. To Him I'm sure it's one of the highest compliments. What we see in the world today are Satan's attempts to degrade our true identity and confuse our ability to see us how God sees us.

[Ruben]

Curiosity : In the Italian version it was translated with the word "donna" which currently means woman but in the past its meaning was different.
The Italian "donna" derives from the Latin "domina", (lady, married woman, mistress of the house).
In fact, Italians call the mother of Jesus, "Madonna" (lat. mea domina) which means "my lady".
"Mona" also has the same root.
The famous painting by Leonardo Da Vinci representing Lisa Gherardini, i.e. "Mona" Lisa, wife of Francesco del Giocondo (therefore the "Gioconda").
So when Jesus called his mother or other women "donna" it was the same as calling her "lady."
In fact, calling one's mother "signora" (lady) was in use in Italy until not so long ago.

[Traveler]

10 hours ago, Ruben said:

Curiosity : In the Italian version it was translated with the word "donna" which currently means woman but in the past its meaning was different.
The Italian "donna" derives from the Latin "domina", (lady, married woman, mistress of the house).
In fact, Italians call the mother of Jesus, "Madonna" (lat. mea domina) which means "my lady".
"Mona" also has the same root.
The famous painting by Leonardo Da Vinci representing Lisa Gherardini, i.e. "Mona" Lisa, wife of Francesco del Giocondo (therefore the "Gioconda").
So when Jesus called his mother or other women "donna" it was the same as calling her "lady."
In fact, calling one's mother "signora" (lady) was in use in Italy until not so long ago.

I am an old guy.  During my lifetime I have seen a great shift in the English term “lady”.  It has shifted from something of great honor to something quite meaningless, perhaps even something negative.   The counter term of honor for men was “gentleman”.  There is a sinister effort to degrade anything of honor distinctive to either sex (male or female).  Obviously, Mary (the mother of Jesus) was a lady of great honor.  The revelations of her in the Book of Mormon indicate she was definitely a lady of great renown.  I believe we should understand that even Jesus held his mother in great esteem.  

 

The Traveler

[Jamie123]

Haha...I can just imagine some cheeky kid calling his mother "woman" and when scolded for it saying: "But didn't you say we should follow Jesus' example?"

[Traveler]

A few years back the wife and I were touring in the country of Turkey.  I wanted to spend some time in the ancient Roman port city of Ephesus.  A side note here because the level of the ocean has dropped so low that currently Ephesus is miles from the Mediterranean Sea.  The opposite of climate change and the oceans rising.  

While in Ephesus I encountered some Christians that planned to visit what is traditionally believed to be that last place of earth that Mary (the mother of Jesus) lived just a few miles up into the mountains from Ephesus.  The wife and I decided to go.  Another side note – unlike LDS religious sites – any religious site in Europe and the Middle East that is open for visitors – cost money.

The site of Mary’s residence is small and obviously old.  There are more modern buildings to accommodate visitors and pilgrims.  Side note – there is a men bathroom that brags that men using the facilities have the best view in the world of men’s bathrooms – and it is mostly true and quite spectacular.

My impression was that Mary’s last residence was a sacred place and likely where she lived.  It is believed that Mary went into a room to pray by herself.  While she was praying there was a bright light and Mary was taken by angels into heaven similar to Moses, Eligia, the 3 Nephites and other of great religious renown.  This is the only case I have heard of – of a specific woman being so taken.  I believe all of this to be true.  That Mary (the mother of Jesus) is a woman of great renown and holds a position of greatness in Heaven.  A woman to be admired by all as the most noble example among women.

 

The Traveler

[Vort]

13 minutes ago, Traveler said:

men using the facilities have the best view in the world of men’s bathrooms

That's what I have dreamed of: To have the best possible view of men's bathrooms. Just thinking about it makes a shiver run down my spine.

[Vort]

23 minutes ago, Vort said:

That's what I have dreamed of: To have the best possible view of men's bathrooms. Just thinking about it makes a shiver run down my spine.

@zil2 shouldn't be laughing at that. That was a joke that only men should understand.

[Traveler]

11 hours ago, Vort said:

That's what I have dreamed of: To have the best possible view of men's bathrooms. Just thinking about it makes a shiver run down my spine.

Sorry I made an error - it is the worlds best view from a men's bathroom.  There is a larg window over looking the mountain side - so while you are standing there you get this view.  I have not ideay why they did it at a place that is considered sacred.

 

The Traveler