Trump (Or any Subject) Derangement Syndrome

[Carborendum]

47 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I have frequently seen people near poverty part with small amounts of money to help people whom they felt had a greater need for it.

Yes, indeed.  Nothing I wrote was meant to indicate that poor people NEVER give money to those in need.

I was simply decrying how many poor people see rich people and automatically think they are greedy, selfish hoarders who never help the poor.

47 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

And anyone in the service industry will tell you that poor people always tip better than wealthier folks. A lot of poor people understand that community doesn't have monetary value, and so they aren't above parting with a few dollars for the good of their community when they can spare a bit.

I have a tough time believing that poor customers are better tippers than wealthy ones.  I worked in the restaurant business in various aspects.  But what I do see is that more wealthy people will not tip on what has traditionally been a non-tip business. 

When growing up, I never saw anyone (rich or poor) tipping fast food.  Now they always include that option at McDonalds.  I find that preposterous.

But if we order a pizza, yes, we tip the driver.  That's traditional.  And it's usually a very nice tip.  If we're in a lower end or upper end restaurant, we tip a traditional percentage depending on the level of service we receive.  That's traditional.

Another question I'd ask is how on earth do they even know who is rich or poor?  I'm pretty wealthy by at least a few standards.  But I dress just the same as several poor families I know.  I drive a Hyundai.  I have virtually no name brand anything in my house.

How do they know?

My guess is that they're just saying things out of "observation bias."  And there are also many other social dynamics going on about people wanting to "appear wealthy" but really aren't.

And it's entirely possible that the server turns their nose up at the customer that they perceive is rich, lowering the tip due to poor service.

Oh, but of course, a poor server would NEVER do such a thing...

FTR, several studies show the information is all over the board.  But from what I can gather, it is a mixed bag because of what aspects they are looking at in various surveys.  So, it could be that some poor vs. wealthy have different expectations of tipping (such as how I don't tip at McDonalds).

Edited Monday at 08:53 PM by Carborendum

[Backroads]

49 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I have frequently seen people near poverty part with small amounts of money to help people whom they felt had a greater need for it. And anyone in the service industry will tell you that poor people always tip better than wealthier folks. A lot of poor people understand that community doesn't have monetary value, and so they aren't above parting with a few dollars for the good of their community when they can spare a bit.

I think there's a lot of truth here, but I gotta say it also creates rather large cross-section of a pet peeve of mine. I am admin for a couple of buy nothing/local needs groups, and we have actual problems of ostensibly very poor people who are completely generous to the fault they can't take care of themselves. Now, I have no doubt some of the claims are pure fiction, but I also get the impression some are true. "I need groceries and dog food and money because I just gave all I had to my neighbor!" "I just adopted three starving cats and I have no means to feed them, please help!"

If I'm honest with myself, I agree with the political compass quizzes that put me as pure moderate, but I agree with the conservative ideal of taking care of one's own as a value. 

[Phoenix_person]

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

How do they know?

My guess is that they're just saying things out of "observation bias."  And there are also many other social dynamics going on about people wanting to "appear wealthy" but really aren't.

We use our regulars as an observation group. You learn who has money and who doesn't and how they like to spend it.

14 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

And it's entirely possible that the server turns their nose up at the customer that they perceive is rich, lowering the tip due to poor service.

It's also possible that servers get to know their regular customers fairly well. Servers that adjust their quality of service based on the customer's perceived financial status tend to not last long in the service industry, and the richer folks that tip well often tip VERY well (Gregg Popovich is notorious in San Antonio for leaving $1000 tips at low-key establishments).

[Carborendum]

13 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

We use our regulars as an observation group. You learn who has money and who doesn't and how they like to spend it.

It's also possible that servers get to know their regular customers fairly well. Servers that adjust their quality of service based on the customer's perceived financial status tend to not last long in the service industry, and the richer folks that tip well often tip VERY well (Gregg Popovich is notorious in San Antonio for leaving $1000 tips at low-key establishments).

I'd still like to see a definitive study that verifies who tips more.  When I worked in the industry, I didn't really see anything that would indicate that poor people tip more.

I'm still going to believe that those "regular customers" were throwing bling around and were in debt up to their eyeballs.  So, they couldn't tip.

Edited Monday at 09:21 PM by Carborendum

[NeuroTypical]

33 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Another question I'd ask is how on earth do they even know who is rich or poor? 

I think the traditional ways folks unrighteously judge each other's wealth, is largely appearance based.  If you live in an area perceived as a "rich area" (usually defined as nicer/bigger homes than yours, or more land).  Or if you drive a car perceived to be expensive.  Or if you flash wealth in the form of 'nice' or 'spendy' clothing or jewelry.  

Throughout human history there is usually a thriving industry of things you can buy to make you look richer than you actually are.  Beware, there is usually some sort of social penalty applied to those who are found out to be 'posing' and trying to make people think you have a level of wealth you don't actually have.

So, it's less "how they know", and more "how they perceive".   And yes, it goes in both directions.  

I've been a fan of thrift stores my whole life.  I was confused at reactions from some of my co-workers when I found a nice leather bag at a goodwill for $12.99.   After several comments, I looked up the brand and model and discovered it sold new for hundreds of dollars.  They were looking at me like maybe they were needing to re-evaluate me in some way.   Like my clothes and car didn't match my bag, and I was a question they needed to solve before they knew how to properly think about me.   15 years later I'm on the same bag, and nobody looks at me like that any more.  

Edited Monday at 09:18 PM by NeuroTypical

[Backroads]

14 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I've been a fan of thrift stores my whole life.  I was confused at reactions from some of my co-workers when I found a nice leather bag at a goodwill for $12.99.   After several comments, I looked up the brand and model and discovered it sold new for hundreds of dollars.  They were looking at me like maybe they were needing to re-evaluate me in some way.   Like my clothes and car didn't match my bag, and I was a question they needed to solve before they knew how to properly think about me.   15 years later I'm on the same bag, and nobody looks at me like that any more.  

One time I was in the donation line at the local thrift store and realized the car ahead of me was our family doctor. Waved hi, did some quick chitchat... and found myself wondering just what goodies he donated perhaps I should go spy for in there.

There's an entire hobby of finding awesome deals at thrift stores. You often hear about "shop the thrift stores in the rich neighborhoods..."

I discovered Thredup online and recently treated myself to a very nice Camilla tee for about fifty bucks instead of hundreds of dollars. 

[Phoenix_person]

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I think the traditional ways folks unrighteously judge each other's wealth, is largely appearance based.  If you live in an area perceived as a "rich area" (usually defined as nicer/bigger homes than yours, or more land).  Or if you drive a car perceived to be expensive.  Or if you flash wealth in the form of 'nice' or 'spendy' clothing or jewelry.  

That's true, to an extent. In San Antonio for instance, no one likes working at bars or restaurants in the Stone Oak or Alamo Heights areas. People get pre-conceived notions of their clientele based on experience working in different areas, but a good server will still give you a chance to prove that you're the exception to the rule. And ultimately, a good server treats all customers well regardless of how much they think they may get as a tip.

8 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

I've been a fan of thrift stores my whole life.  I was confused at reactions from some of my co-workers when I found a nice leather bag at a goodwill for $12.99.   After several comments, I looked up the brand and model and discovered it sold new for hundreds of dollars.  They were looking at me like maybe they were needing to re-evaluate me in some way.   Like my clothes and car didn't match my bag, and I was a question they needed to solve before they knew how to properly think about me.   15 years later I'm on the same bag, and nobody looks at me like that any more.  

True story, when I moved back from St Paul after my recovery, the only furniture I got from my ex was the bed I bought myself before we were married. I went to Savers and bought a recliner, an ugly but very comfortable reclining sofa, and a desk to put the TV on for a TOTAL of about $30. I value practicality and utility, not aesthetic.

[NeuroTypical]

39 minutes ago, Backroads said:

I discovered Thredup online and recently treated myself to a very nice Camilla tee for about fifty bucks instead of hundreds of dollars. 

35 minutes ago, Phoenix_person said:

I went to Savers and bought a recliner, an ugly but very comfortable reclining sofa, and a desk to put the TV on for a TOTAL of about $30.

Nice.  

I saw a TikTok the other day: Guy said "I don't want to be rich, I just want to be able to pass by a sofa on the side of the road and not think "should I?"     I really resonated with that comment.   

I'm a member of our ward's Relief Society facebook page, because the wives are so good at giving away their hubby's stuff!  The used air compressor got a 2nd life with us for a full decade.  Same with an entire home sound system, a sofa set, various tables and bookcases, and more than one TV.   

Probably my most fun story: We saw someone giving away a king-size bed /w frame.  We drove into the richest area I think I've ever seen in my life, other than the palace at Versailles when I went to Europe.  The guard at the gate buzzed the house we were directed to, got approval for us to enter.  Marble driveway, IIRC.  It was 9am and the lady had already started drinking for the day.  She gave us a tour of her massive house and all the fancy stuff in it.  Then apologized for the sorry state of the 1 year old bed, apparently it was dusty because they rarely used that particular guest bedroom.   As we were loading it up, her neighbor showed up, even drunker than she was.  Apparently we were quite the spectacle in the neighborhood, being neither idle rich nor hired staff.  As I was bending over and grunting away at loading the mattress, I heard the dude slur out the words "oh, he works out".  I can count the number of times someone has commented about my posterior on one hand, and that's still my favorite. 

 

Edited Monday at 10:10 PM by NeuroTypical

[Carborendum]

I just realized something that may add to the discussion on who tips more. (I think it was briefly mentioned before, but I'll carry on).

One adventure I recall in a particular restaurant where I worked:  One man had a large party come in.  Our waiter served them and really hustled.  The table ran up a $50 bill.  Back then, that was a lot of money.  I'd estimate about $250 to $300 in restaurant food today.  

He left a 4% tip.  This was before the policy of mandatory minimums for large parties was a thing.

The waiter chased after the man who paid and threw it in his face.  "You run up a $50 bill with all these people and give me a lousy $2 tip.  I worked my @** off!!!  Keep your money!"

I watched as the man walked out to his car.  I was a pretty run-down rusty vehicle.  This man couldn't tip any more than that because he was trying to keep up appearances.  He didn't have any money.  But all the waiter saw was a guy who wore a nice-looking suit (it wasn't really) and paid for the entire party.

We all know about "keeping up appearances" or "keeping up with the Joneses."  While I haven't seen the actual studies. I've read here and there, that the tendency has risen quite a lot with the advent of social media.  The Influencer is a new phenomenon that is the epitome of this trend.  People don't just want to watch things that are interesting.  They want to be those people and live like them.

Well, we all know what happens to people who try to keep up.  They live beyond their means.  They make believe they are rich. They tell people they have all the money in the world.  They brag about how important they are and how well off they are.

But secretly, they have spent whatever they have on keeping up appearances.  To further hide their poverty, they will complain about their (probably perfect) service they received so they can justify leaving little to no tip.

One more thing is that many people in this mindset may not even know they are supposed to tip 15% to 25%.  They just put a couple of bucks on the table because that's what they think is normal.  No one told them otherwise.

Edited yesterday at 12:48 PM by Carborendum

[Traveler]

I am currently away from home (in the mid-west).  I was with a friend (and wife) celebrating their 50th anniversary.  Among those attending was a lady that is currently a nurse working for VA.  She is a supervisory nurse that has worked mostly from home since COVID.  She told me that she had to weekly send in a status report with 5 accomplishments.  She felt that a month of doing so ought to be sufficient.  She is not a Trump and Musk fan.  I defended Trump and Musk that under the current government circumstance a status report was hardly an overreach.  She agreed.

There is another problem.  This dedicated nurse (VA nurses are paid less according to her) serving our veterans informed me that nurses are the most critical service to the veterans needing medical care (I agree) but that the VA budget and been cut and at the VA hospital where she worked 20% of the front-line nurses had received termination notices.   They are already woefully short.

There are a number of seemingly overreaches taking place by the Trump agenda.  These overreaches are touted only by the Trump opposition (like NPR) but are never-the-less serious and needs to be addressed (true or not).  Though I am a veteran, I am healthy and utilize my benefits acquired as a civilian – so I am unaware of any VA problems.

It is my belief that as a nation we need to listen to one another without a spirit of anger.  But more so we must be charitable as Saints.  I a-d m of the mind that if we waver from our covenants with G-d – to love one another – things will not go well.

 

The Traveler

[Traveler]

Let me update a possible overreach.  NPR (who I do not trust) reported that any woman who has married and assumed the last name of her husband will have difficulty voting in the next election.  This is because her last name will not coincide with her birth certificate.   As it turns out this can be mitigated with a marriage certificate.   It is argued that this is discriminatory because it requires these married women an additional level of difficulty to register.

However, there is more to this that meets the eye, and this is in part due to NPR and how they go about covering the news they broadcast.   Before Trump took office there was a law passed concerning what is called a “Real ID”.  Some states include this real id with a driver’s licence by adding a star in the upper right corner of the driver’s license.   As of May 7th a real id will be required to board any flight in the USA (domestic or international).  In addition, a real id is required to enter any Federal Government Building or apply for any Federal Government service (like food stamps).  What the new law for proof of citizenship to vote requires is tied directly to what is called a “Real ID”.  A passport is also a real id.  I realize that women who are married with a different last name on their birth certificate will have to supply additional documentation for their “Real ID”.  That is just a fact and does not have all the blame of the Trump administration and NPR is attempting to imply.

If there are other issues – please, lets be sure to hear both sides of the issue before we go ballistic.  I am still trying to find out how it is that front line nurses taking care of veterans are being fired when more are needed.

 

The Traveler

[Carborendum]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

As it turns out this can be mitigated with a marriage certificate.

As it stands now, this has yet to be verified.  The SAVE act does require that anyone who has had a name change would need to show documentation for "proof of name change."  It does not state exactly what that document needs to be.

A marriage certificate would be the obvious go-to.  But the detractors of the SAVE act say that since the bill doesn't explicitly state what documents are acceptable, leaves room for prohibition rather than permissiveness.

However, the bill has specific verbiage indicating that the rules about name changes will be delegated to the individual states.

Detractors say that this will lead to chaos.  The potential for 50 states all having different rules would be difficult to navigate if you ever want to move to a different state.

While some distant future may prove this to be true, the current condition of our nation is that there are really only two ways to legally change a name: marriage, or court ordered change of name.  The latter is usually applied to people wanting to voluntarily change their name, such as:

• celebrities who have a "stage name" they wish to use.
• immigrants who want an "American" name.
• transgender individuals who want to dissociate themselves from their "dead name."
• Some people just hate the name they were given.  Imagine being called "Karen" in this day and age.

The biggest problem with any of this is if a woman changed her name for marriage, then get divorced.  They don't often keep the license around with them.  They really should, or get their name changed back to their maiden name again.  But many don't do that because of practicality, and they have trouble.  With the divorce rate today... yeah, it's a problem.

EDIT: I just realized that Latter-day Saints have an additional problem.  The way the temple did our marriage, they gave us the temple certificate of marriage. And they filed with the state.  But we didn't get the state marriage certificate itself until we specifically applied for a copy in a separate transaction.  Other faiths and civil marriages automatically do that.  I wondered why we don't do that.

I hope they stopped doing that so the certificate will be sent automatically.

Edited yesterday at 06:41 PM by Carborendum

[Phoenix_person]

4 hours ago, Traveler said:

I am currently away from home (in the mid-west).  I was with a friend (and wife) celebrating their 50th anniversary.  Among those attending was a lady that is currently a nurse working for VA.  She is a supervisory nurse that has worked mostly from home since COVID.  She told me that she had to weekly send in a status report with 5 accomplishments.  She felt that a month of doing so ought to be sufficient.  She is not a Trump and Musk fan.  I defended Trump and Musk that under the current government circumstance a status report was hardly an overreach.  She agreed.

There is another problem.  This dedicated nurse (VA nurses are paid less according to her) serving our veterans informed me that nurses are the most critical service to the veterans needing medical care (I agree) but that the VA budget and been cut and at the VA hospital where she worked 20% of the front-line nurses had received termination notices.   They are already woefully short.

There are a number of seemingly overreaches taking place by the Trump agenda.  These overreaches are touted only by the Trump opposition (like NPR) but are never-the-less serious and needs to be addressed (true or not).  Though I am a veteran, I am healthy and utilize my benefits acquired as a civilian – so I am unaware of any VA problems.

It is my belief that as a nation we need to listen to one another without a spirit of anger.  But more so we must be charitable as Saints.  I a-d m of the mind that if we waver from our covenants with G-d – to love one another – things will not go well.

 

The Traveler

The cuts at the VA were upsetting, but unsurprising. I'm also seeing a lot of frustration over widespread staff cuts at social security offices. Trump and Elon are playing a dangerous game by messing with the care and income of two of the GOP's most reliable demographics: veterans and seniors. And we haven't even seen yet what will happen to Medicaid under the Republican budget, but I imagine it will be hard to hit the goal of $800B+ in spending cuts without affecting Medicaid and SNAP, and some Republicans know it.