April 2025 General Conference Discussion

[SilentOne]

We're just a couple weeks out. Has anyone heard interesting rumors? Any predictions? Special plans?

[NeuroTypical]

Over the decades, GC has gone from something I never paid attention to, to something I watched because I was supposed to, to something I enjoyed and was filled by.    Last few years, GC has become something I need and yearn for.  I expect that general trend to continue for me.

I'd love to hear more about our new hymns, and what the folks who picked them are thinking.  

Edited March 24 by NeuroTypical

[Traveler]

I have heard that Elder Nelson, Elder Eyring and Elder Holland are all in bad health and are struggling.  This may be their last conference.  In my youth it was considered a great honor to attend a conference session at the Tabernacle.   I have only attended twice at the new Conference Center.  I used to think the greatest personal revelations for me came from the Saturday Evening Priesthood session.  I sometimes think that things are currently toned down a bit for worldwide broadcasting.  I think I have to listen more carefully now to get what I seemed to get out of conference in the past.

I believe there will be some changes.  I used to take notes – not on talks by my personal impressions (something a Stake President taught me on my mission).  I think this will be a good time to renew that practice.   I had an epiphany recently about changes during my lifetime – When I was born, it was into a time period and society that was as close to the era of the Civil War in our history as to what we have today.  Many of the life skills I thought to be important are now mostly lost in time.  I do not understand where the depressions (spiritual and mental) of today have come from and have become so profound in the rising generations.

Sometimes I think that the Saints of my youth were better prepared to the second coming than where we are today – but back then, there were hardly a million Saints, and we were quite isolated.  Now days, it seems I can travel the world and attend a Sabbath service with the Saints wherever we are.  I think that this time, it may be about time.

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

  On 3/24/2025 at 4:07 AM, Traveler said:

I do not understand where the depressions (spiritual and mental) of today have come from and have become so profound in the rising generations.

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Um, Satan?

FWIW, though, the youth in the Church fare better than any others of the same age, by every measurement (if you can believe those who research these things).  Further, in an interview, D. Todd Christofferson (I think) stated that we're seeing record enrollment in the Church colleges and universities, and more youth attending seminary and institute. He was very optimistic about the rising generation.

During one RS meeting, the thought flitted through my head that many adults may end up like that first generation of the Exodus Israelites - allowed to die because we aren't ready for the Millennial era - while the young people are allowed to enter the "promised land" (of the Millennium) due to their faith...  The thought came with the understanding that individual older folk who will prepare themselves could well live to enjoy the Millennium.  Don't know whether that was an inspired thought, though it seemed so at the time.

[Traveler]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:53 PM, zil2 said:

Um, Satan?

FWIW, though, the youth in the Church fare better than any others of the same age, by every measurement (if you can believe those who research these things).  Further, in an interview, D. Todd Christofferson (I think) stated that we're seeing record enrollment in the Church colleges and universities, and more youth attending seminary and institute. He was very optimistic about the rising generation.

During one RS meeting, the thought flitted through my head that many adults may end up like that first generation of the Exodus Israelites - allowed to die because we aren't ready for the Millennial era - while the young people are allowed to enter the "promised land" (of the Millennium) due to their faith...  The thought came with the understanding that individual older folk who will prepare themselves could well live to enjoy the Millennium.  Don't know whether that was an inspired thought, though it seemed so at the time.

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Pardon my response – but I do not believe Satan is the answer to why people are being mentally and spiritually depressed.  Satan, in my mind, is an excuse.  My scientific background is concerned with what has changed.  I like to quote Alma with a little addition of my own with the following: “Wickedness never was happiness, but it was sure fun while it lasted.”

I know why I am a happy person.  It is simply worth the effort.  I have discovered that the first step towards being happy is discipline.  With discipline comes accomplishment.  With accomplishment comes joy and happiness.  Without discipline everything eventually becomes a disappointment.

One of the most difficult situations of my life my time in the military – and yet I would not trade my experiences.  One of my best commanders passed on a critical thing he had learned.  If the unit is experiencing failures and the moral is falling – increase the regiment and discipline.  I applied this principle when I was a scout master (the most difficult calling of my life).   We spent a lot of time practicing making fire without matches and doing orienteering.  When we went camping our tents were in a row and we spent most of our time accomplishing objectives. (I will not go into detail of the problems I had with parents that felt I was too hard on their children).  The kids that achieved and were able to go on a special activity once a year – like snowmobiling through Yellowstone in winter.    All this was over 40 years ago.  A couple of Christmases ago a group of my scouts came to visit me and remarked that our camping trips were the happiest time of their lives.  What surprised me the most was that they looked back at the punishment discipline, that often got me into trouble, as some of their most memorable fun???

 

The Traveler

[zil2]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:12 PM, Traveler said:

Pardon my response – but I do not believe Satan is the answer to why people are being mentally and spiritually depressed.  Satan, in my mind, is an excuse. 

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Please watch this talk.  Pay attention to the things he describes Satan saying to people.  If you don't have 13 minutes to spare (watching it at 2x), start at 8 minutes 30 seconds (or if you're really short on time, 11 minutes and 40 seconds) to at least 12m 40seconds:

 

But if you need something you can measure, look at all the toxic stuff in our environment (food, water, air, medicines, etc.).  Pick whichever videos you like from the Dark Horse Podcast to listen to a pair of biologists talk about these issues.  They'll give you some science - but beware, biology is a much messier and more complicated thing than engineering and the other hard sciences.

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:12 PM, Traveler said:

I know why I am a happy person.

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Do not make the mistake of thinking that because you know you, you also know everyone else.  Certainly culture has something to do with it.  Go watch Jordan Peterson - he'll tell you that focusing on the negative makes it worse.  This doesn't mean that one doesn't need help figuring out and overcoming problems, part of which is talking, but children are bombarded today with nonsense that they don't need and didn't hear decades ago - essentially being told that a single sad moment means they're suffering from depression.

Anywho, between the biologists and Jordan Peterson, you'll get a lot of understanding about what's wrong both biologically and psychologically / culturally in the world.

But that talk should also give you a good idea of how Satan makes it all worse. If that talk doesn't resonate with you - get on your knees at 12:41 and praise God for His mercy and protection.

Edited March 24 by zil2

[Carborendum]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:53 PM, zil2 said:

Um, Satan?

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I think it is gremlins.  Yup.  Definitely gremlins.  They get into everything.  They even put a hole in my shoes the other day.  And boy!  I had to go into the thorny patch of my garden getting poked with every stride.  

If that doesn't get you upset and depressed like the forces of nature are all against you, then nothing will.   Let me tell you.  The poking of thorns in your foot is the absolute worst thing in the world (aside from having to see AOC's bug eyes for an hour at a time.  That's just creepy.)

Then there's that guy who drives too slow in front of you, but then he speeds up when you change lanes to pass him.  I lose hope for humanity when I see that happen.  'struth!!!

[Ironhold]

For decades now, the 2 - 3 weeks leading up to Conference were always challenging for me as I'd constantly face various obstacles and stressors. This would usually be followed by some big argument with someone *during* Conference weekend, and then the drama would follow for the next week as the patterns that were disrupted due to my taking the time to watch Conference had to be mended. 

Right now, things have been *really* ugly and it started sooner than usual, so I can only imagine that something massive is going to happen this time around. 

[Ironhold]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:12 PM, Traveler said:

Pardon my response – but I do not believe Satan is the answer to why people are being mentally and spiritually depressed.  Satan, in my mind, is an excuse.  My scientific background is concerned with what has changed.  I like to quote Alma with a little addition of my own with the following: “Wickedness never was happiness, but it was sure fun while it lasted.”

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In many ways, this world has gotten a lot more complicated, a lot colder, and a lot less personal over the past few decades. 

A lot of folks are falling through the ever-increasing number of cracks, and in far too many instances the people who should be trying to pull them back out are instead trying to bury them further. 

It's a lot harder for people to know who they can trust, where they can go for solace, and how to heal the myriad of wounds they're receiving. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/24/2025 at 10:13 PM, Ironhold said:

any ways, this world has gotten a lot more complicated, a lot colder, and a lot less personal over the past few decades. 

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Maybe for you. Bluntly put, if you are cold, complicated and unhappy, you’ll see that in others and in the world.

If you are happy, pleasant and friendly you’ll see that in many other people. 
 

It all depends on you. 99% of the time how you see the world is a direct reflection of who you are.  

Edited March 24 by LDSGator

[mirkwood]

Rumor: 1 hour church.  I don't buy it.

 

@Ironhold is right.  There is a lot of ugliness in the world.  Lots of coldness and unhappiness.  That doesn't mean there are not happy warm people, but to deny the reality of the darkness in the world is naive.

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 12:54 AM, mirkwood said:

but to deny the reality of the darkness in the world is naive.

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No one is denying bad things happen. But no, he isn’t right. 
 

I strongly reject that things are getting worse. It shows a jarring ignorance of what is going on in the world.

Why people don’t see it is confusing-but I think it’s a combination of laziness, wanting to believe life is miserable, being set in their ways, cognitive dissonance…the usual suspects. 

https://awealthofcommonsense.com/2023/04/50-ways-the-world-is-getting-better-2/

https://www.cato.org/commentary/things-are-getting-better-really-they-are

https://time.com/6550576/13-ways-the-world-got-better-in-2023/

https://www.biospheresustainable.com/en/blog/40/the-world-is-getting-better-and-better-believe-it-or-not

https://goodness-exchange.com/remarkable-stats-about-our-world-getting-better/

 

I was also exactly right that how you view the world is a reflection of who you are. If you are miserable, angry and bitter-surprise!-that’s how you’ll see the world. 

Edited March 25 by LDSGator

[NeuroTypical]

  On 3/24/2025 at 11:53 PM, LDSGator said:

if you are cold, complicated and unhappy, you’ll see that in others and in the world.  If you are happy, pleasant and friendly you’ll see that in many other people. 

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Last week's Pearl of Wisdom from Social Media told me that you end up being an amalgamation of the 5 most important people in your life.  

The eternal debate between nature vs. nurture enters the chat.  I'm not hopeful the argument will ever be resolved.

I personally figure that agency is part of the story, but not the entire story.  Meaning, most folks have a certain amount of influence in who they are, their moods, their outlook on life.  It's possible, to a certain extent, to chose to be happy or miserable.  But that's hardly the full story.  Run the book of Job experiment on 1000 different people, and you'll end up with a few like Job, and everyone else who gives up at some point in the story.  Biochemical impacts on mental state, significant childhood or adult trauma, an upbringing filled with caring and love and access to things of the spirit - all can have an impact on our ability to chose our mindset.  I'm pretty sure there are also folks just born certain ways, who remain that certain way as they grow and mature and get old.  And it's impossible to dent the mindset of such folks, no matter how much you want, or they want.    It's fun stuff to think about. 

So for General Conference, I expect to hear talks targeted to the entire human race and everyone in it, trying to reach folks from all the different mindsets.

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 2:24 PM, NeuroTypical said:

Last week's Pearl of Wisdom from Social Media told me that you end up being an amalgamation of the 5 most important people in your life.  

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I have no issue with that. You are known by the company you keep, and to no surprise, you develop traits that are the same as theirs.

If you hang around with athletes who work out daily, you’ll probably get in better shape. If you hang around with people who use drugs, you’ll start using drugs. 

  On 3/25/2025 at 2:24 PM, NeuroTypical said:

life.  It's possible, to a certain extent, to chose to be happy or miserable

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Agree-but it’s complicated. Many people want to be angry/sad/moody because they are lazy and it gives them an excuse to be rude, abrasive. It’s the same with snotty teenagers who think being sad all day and reading Sylvia Plath makes them “deep”. 

 

  On 3/25/2025 at 2:24 PM, NeuroTypical said:

And it's impossible to dent the mindset of such folks, no matter how much you want, or they want. 

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I totally agree. As a naive younger man, I genuinely thought people could change when presented with reasonable arguments and evidence. I was wrong and stupid.
 

We can change our behavior though. Ask the guy who stops drinking and remains sober for 35 years. 

Edited March 25 by LDSGator

[Ironhold]

  On 3/24/2025 at 11:53 PM, LDSGator said:

Maybe for you. Bluntly put, if you are cold, complicated and unhappy, you’ll see that in others and in the world.

If you are happy, pleasant and friendly you’ll see that in many other people. 
 

It all depends on you. 99% of the time how you see the world is a direct reflection of who you are.  

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The *very* big issue right now is social isolation, with even people who would have in past generations been able to find social support networks instead being shut out and cut out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation

Once upon a time society was built upon direct face-to-face social interaction, with people being actively encouraged to work with others. 

Most of the traditional social structures and activities we used to have are breaking down if they still exist, and it's all too easy these days to get distracted or find excuses to not reach out to people. Shunning and ostracism now go by "cancelling" and other such terms that people use to *justify* why even minor offenses or the crime of being "different" should be enough to force a person out of not just society but the world as a whole. 

Throw in the plethora of modern conveniences that we have now, and it's all too easy to have a situation where a person is discarded by society, forgotten about, or simply no longer "needs" to make an effort as far as they're concerned. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:00 PM, Ironhold said:

The *very* big issue right now is social isolation, with even people who would have in past generations been able to find social support networks instead being shut out and cut out. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_isolation

Once upon a time society was built upon direct face-to-face social interaction, with people being actively encouraged to work with others. 

Most of the traditional social structures and activities we used to have are breaking down if they still exist, and it's all too easy these days to get distracted or find excuses to not reach out to people. Shunning and ostracism now go by "cancelling" and other such terms that people use to *justify* why even minor offenses or the crime of being "different" should be enough to force a person out of not just society but the world as a whole. 

Throw in the plethora of modern conveniences that we have now, and it's all too easy to have a situation where a person is discarded by society, forgotten about, or simply no longer "needs" to make an effort as far as they're concerned. 

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Agree there, but this problem is easily fixable. Join a free reading group at the library. Go to a church. Join the Masons. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Play Dungeons and Dragons at the local comic store. 
 

That’s five options without even thinking hard. 

[Ironhold]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:08 PM, LDSGator said:

Agree there, but this problem is easily fixable. Join a free reading group at the library. Go to a church. Join the Masons. Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Play Dungeons and Dragons at the local comic store. 
 

That’s five options without even thinking hard. 

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*What* local comic shop? 

The US comic book industry has been in a dire decline for over a decade now, with the past several years seeing more shops close than open.

There are now large swaths of the United States where people can't get new comics at traditional retail, and some publishers - especially indie publishers - are now basically internet + conventions as a result. 

That's part of what I mean when I say that a lot of the traditional structures and methods by which people used to socialize in the past are either breaking down or going away entirely. 

 

And church? Modern society has done a *lot* to drive people away from the idea of religion, to the point that it either doesn't occur to a lot of people to go to church or they fear social isolation by doing anything that would lead others to think they've become religious. And even if a person does try to seek out religion, many churches have closed over the last few years due to declining membership, limiting one's options. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:13 PM, Ironhold said:

*What* local comic shop? 

The US comic book industry has been in a dire decline for over a decade now, with the past several years seeing more shops close than open.

There are now large swaths of the United States where people can't get new comics at traditional retail, and some publishers - especially indie publishers - are now basically internet + conventions as a result. 

That's part of what I mean when I say that a lot of the traditional structures and methods by which people used to socialize in the past are either breaking down or going away entirely. 

 

And church? Modern society has done a *lot* to drive people away from the idea of religion, to the point that it either doesn't occur to a lot of people to go to church or they fear social isolation by doing anything that would lead others to think they've become religious. And even if a person does try to seek out religion, many churches have closed over the last few years due to declining membership, limiting one's options. 

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Okay. You seem to be looking for reasons to remain socially isolated instead of looking for solutions. If you look for reasons and excuses to do so, you’ll find them. But, if you look for reasons to go meet people and start relationships, you’ll find those too. Once again, it all depends on you. 

[LDSGator]

And you are wrong about comics too. Our local comic stores are booming now. 

[Ironhold]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:19 PM, LDSGator said:

Okay. You seem to be looking for reasons to remain socially isolated instead of looking for solutions. If you look for reasons and excuses to do so, you’ll find them. But, if you look for reasons to go meet people and start relationships, you’ll find those too. Once again, it all depends on you. 

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I'm trying to explain the fact that yes, there's a problem. 

We can't start to talk about fixes for a problem nobody wants to admit even exists. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:25 PM, Ironhold said:

I'm trying to explain the fact that yes, there's a problem. 

We can't start to talk about fixes for a problem nobody wants to admit even exists. 

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I absolutely agree social isolation is a problem. It’s so serious that I’m the one listing solutions!

In fact, I think the loneliness epidemic is so serious it unquestionably leads to depression, suicide, etc.   It’s horrible. I wouldn’t wish it on an enemy. 

Edited March 25 by LDSGator

[Ironhold]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:29 PM, LDSGator said:

I absolutely agree social isolation is a problem. It’s so serious that I’m the one listing solutions!

In fact, I think the loneliness epidemic is so serious it unquestionably leads to depression, suicide, etc.   It’s horrible. I wouldn’t wish it on an enemy. 

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The thing with the present situation is that there's no one single surefire pie-in-the-sky solution. 

Society has become *so broken* in this regards that simply telling a socially isolated person "Just get off your couch!" is only going to add to the problem. 

What we need to do is start pumping the brakes on certain things with modern life so that we can start rebuilding society in a way that brings those safety nets back. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:40 PM, Ironhold said:

The thing with the present situation is that there's no one single surefire pie-in-the-sky solution. 

Society has become *so broken* in this regards that simply telling a socially isolated person "Just get off your couch!" is only going to add to the problem. 

What we need to do is start pumping the brakes on certain things with modern life so that we can start rebuilding society in a way that brings those safety nets back. 

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That’s where we fundamentally disagree. I believe that there solutions that can help the individual, or at least make it easier.  

[Ironhold]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:42 PM, LDSGator said:

That’s where we fundamentally disagree. I believe that there solutions that can help the individual, or at least make it easier.  

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Would you tell someone who was dealing with clinical depression to "stop being depressed"? 

That's the gist of what my parents did when I was younger. If I was lucky I would be accused of "being an Eeyore" and be told I needed to smile more. More often than not, however, it was turned into my situation somehow being my fault for somehow ostensibly choosing to only see the negative and told that I just needed to get over myself.

This included, mind you, the fact that I was supposed to laugh at myself every single time I was the butt of the joke, no matter how cruel or cutting the joke was. I actually got screamed at one night for not laughing and thus ruining everyone else's fun.  

It's how I know that if a person is dealing with mental health issues, social isolation, or other such problems you don't simply fling them to the wolves or get after them for not being what you think they should be. You need to gently love them and nudge them along while observing & helping to correct any and all structural issues that could be interfering with their healthy existence. 

...A process that can and sometimes must include intervening on their behalf if they're being wronged or mistreated. 

Remember, there are days where I'm not so much offering opinion as it is warning everyone how I wound up the way I am now in the hopes it saves other people from following in my path. 

[LDSGator]

  On 3/25/2025 at 3:53 PM, Ironhold said:

Would you tell someone who was dealing with clinical depression to "stop being depressed"? 

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Actually-I’d ask them if they want help, or if they want to be depressed.
 

Btw, I suffer from it too-but instead of whining and embracing it, I fight back and refuse to let it win.  Like the saying goes, “I have depression, depression doesn’t have me”

Edited March 25 by LDSGator