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Well, while many sections of the D&C have links in the "Related Content" pane for "Revelations in Context", this one only has it indirectly (see here), so apparently we don't know much about what led to receiving D&C 93. But, what if the paragraphination is wrong (or misleading)? Verses 29-35, re-paragraphinated: 1. Man was with God in the beginning, also ("also" because the preceding verses talked about how Christ was with God in the beginning). 2. There is a thing called [truth]. This thing has a light and we call this "light of truth" [intelligence]. [Intelligence] wasn't made and can't be made. 3. [Truth] is independent within the sphere in which God placed it. [Truth] can act. 4. [Intelligence, the light of truth] is also independent (really? independent from [truth]?) and free to act for itself within the sphere in which God has place it. 5. Were [truth] and [intelligence] not free to act within their spheres, there would be no existence. (Hmm.) 6. Men have agency because of these things. 7. Men are condemned when they refuse to receive the light (presumably [intelligence, the light of truth]). (This doesn't sound like "intelligence" === "the pre-spirit form of man" - how can you refuse to receive what you originally were?) 8. Man is spirit. (No qualifiers. No time mentioned. Perhaps we are and always have been spirits and our "spirit birth" was by ordinance and covenant with God so that we could progress. I'm not entirely comfortable with this idea, but I'm not entirely uncomfortable with it either. Just yesterday, another member (on X) explained that it was B. H. Roberts who formulated the intelligence > spirit > mortal paradigm that we now embrace, and asserted that he did it to reconcile Brigham Young's insistence that our spirits are conceived and born just as mortals are conceived and born. I haven't had time to research this to learn where, nor to learn more about what Joseph Smith actually taught, such as this simple sentence right here. In response to your OP, I went looking through the Scripture Citation Index for Abraham 3:22 and D&C 93:29, and the overwhelming perception, when "intelligences" were referenced (as opposed to the council in heaven) was that "intelligence" is synonymous with "spirit" in that verse. And actually, only one reference from then-Elder Nelson hinted otherwise. I think it best to keep one's beliefs flexible in this regard.) 9. Spirit and element can be combined and when "inseparably connected" (clearly suggests the resurrection), receive a fulness of joy. 10. All elements (matter?) are the tabernacle (aka temple) of God, including man. (Interesting. We believe God to be an exalted man, and yet all the elements everywhere, presumably, are His tabernacle. Hmm.) 11. Defiled temples (aka tabernacles) will be destroyed. Those seem to be the primary points from that set of verses. Now let's backtrack to verses 21-28. 12. Christ was in the beginning with the Father and is the "Firstborn". 13. Those begotten through Christ are partakers of "the glory of the same" - wait, what? The same what? All I can figure is that they are partakers of "the glory of the Firstborn" - hence, "and are the church of the Firstborn". So, were our spirits "begotten through Christ"? Or is this what we're here to do - get begotten through Christ, become His sons and daughters by covenant? (The second seems more consistent with my understanding, but what do I know?) (One can see where all the scriptures which talk about us becoming sons (and daughters) of Christ can suggest that becoming the children of God was also a covenant process...) 14. Prequel to the fact that we also were in the beginning with the Father (or does "Ye" refer to someone specific? "You" was used previously... ). The semi-colon confuses me in this bit: "that which is Spirit, even the Spirit of truth" - what does that refer to? Is it our spirits, if so, why capitalized? Is it God? Are we "the Spirit of truth"? This clause leaves me nothing but puzzled, always has. 15. Ah, here we have a definition of [truth]: things as they were, are, and will be. 16. Anything other than [truth] is "the spirit of [Lucifer]" 17. The "Spirit of truth" that confuses me in item #14 is of God. Jesus Christ is the "Spirit of truth". Now that phrase mentioned in 14 confuses me more, unless perhaps it's referring to God - if Christ is the "Spirit of truth" then I expect God is, too.... It's like a subject, object, or verb is missing from that paragraph! 18 John bore record that Christ received a fulness of all truth by keeping the commandments. 19. If you keep the commandments, you will receive [truth: knowledge of things as they were, are, and will be] and [light] (is this the light of truth, aka intelligence, or another light?), until you are glorified (see #13) in [truth] and know all things. My conclusion is as follows: 1) Don't get addicted to the "intelligence > spirit > mortal" paradigm. It might be correct, but it might not be. 2) Don't assume every instance of "intelligence" means the same thing, let alone "the pre-spirit form of mankind". 3) Mortal languages cannot correctly communicate many of the things found in the D&C, such as these from section 93. Therefore, one must study, reason, and then ask God to clarify where you understand correctly and where you are wrong. One must repeat this ad infinitum until one has received a fulness of all truth. It might take a few thousand years... 4) Keeping the commandments will speed item #3. (Failure to keep them will drastically hinder #3.) FWIW.

Growing Pains There is no comfort in our growth When feeling cruel progressions They often yield sorrows that Leave lifelong lasting impressions There is no growth in our comfort Where lies abound in soothing thought Banal efforts die a feckless death While culling pearls is seldom sought Adversity and consequence Tenderizes obstinate hearts These overwhelming challenges Provides a wisdom to impart Bittersweet experiences Will teach us lessons if we heed The positive or negative Essential attitudes we feed Aeglyn Sept'2022

IMO, this is unwarranted from the quoted D&C bit. It does not say that man is or was an "intelligence". We get that from Abraham, but not from the cited D&C passage. IMO, the idea of intelligence > spirit > mortal is so embedded into our culture that we read it into (nearly?) every instance of the word "intelligence". I'm not convinced either way - we don't have enough, IMO, to speak with certainty. I'm not so sure they weren't just naturally in a hierarchy: Moses 3:5 says all things were created spiritually before naturally. It doesn't say the spiritual things were created from intelligence(s). Observe sound rearranging matter: Now, I'm not saying this was how God organized the universe, but I'm not saying it isn't either. I'm not convinced either way. First, I don't think agency is the same as free will. Agency is a responsibility given by God (through covenant, I think). Free will is just the natural consequence of having capacity and options. Remember 2 Nephi 2 talks about "things to act and things to be acted upon", suggesting that not everything has sufficient capacity to act or use agency... Folks around here don't seem to think Satan can do much of anything. FWIW.

This video is the most informative I've seen about the biology of the virus itself. Good stuff if you can follow the science (don't let the thumbnail fool you - one of the scientists likes to surf):

Interesting. My mind works by interpreting things through a mechanical lense. I struggle to accept vaguer notions. I think the atonement can make sense mechanically. I think moral laws govern the universe just as much as physical laws and God is subject to both. D&C 19:16-17 is one of my favourite passages for this line of thinking: Moral law is satisfied at the final judgement because: A) Those who follow the Gospel are saved B) Those who do not receive some kind of punishment. I don't think it's the eternal kind, Christ's suffering in Gethsemane didn't last forever. So suffering as he did, seems to imply a one time punishment for an unrighteous life, followed by eternity in a lower kingdom of Glory. This is just how I interpret it. Your theory makes a lot of sense now that I reframe things. I was seeing the atonement and resurrection as completely separate entities. The atonement mechanically provides us with forgiveness, and then the resurrection gives us the victory other death (somehow). But perhaps the victory over death started in Gethsemane. As a result of the cleansing effect of accepting the atonement, our garments will be white enough to receive an inheritance. No unclean thing and all that. Thank you for your insights.

Yup. One of my favorite books is titled Man of Steel and Velvet. It’s a male self help book. Jesus Christ is the exemplary model. A man should be steadfast and ready to lead and defend his family and principles - the Steel part. And supportive and sensitive to his spouse and children - the velvet. People many times only imagine the velvet part of Jesus. He was firm and tough as nails as well. It’s why I love the daguerreotype of Joseph Smith so much. It displays both the steel and the velvet. I think many saints prefer the soft portraits of Joseph Smith. We have to provide our family, friends, saints, and community with real examples of men. I’m doing my part.

Looking at the scriptures, I think the answer is found in section 93 when it talks about the elements being the tabernacle of God, I think what is being communicated is that physical matter is the tabernacle of the spiritual. I think we are still the same because of the spirit bodies housed in our physical bodies. And I think the change over of cells can be likened to a temple renovation. The structure will be physically altered. But when work is complete, it is rededicated, and it is still the same temple, being filled with the same spirit of God. I think yes and no. The human body is its own kind of ecosystem. For example, gut bacteria, is vital to the digestive process but does not originate from our own cells. On a cellular level, we definitely not one individual being, but again, I think our spirit bodies are what gives us our oneness. All things were made spiritually before physically (according to D&C 29). I think your remarks on the immune system and electrons are very interesting indeed, and seem to be in support of the idea that all things possess an intelligence.

So, looking over the Come Follow Me for next week I had a thought (probably very heavily inspired by the Come Follow Me Lesson). I absolutely love my books. I have what some would consider a rather large library. It consist of over 10,000 books. It is perhaps one of my most treasured things. It is worthless. I dream that when I die, I will be given a large room of books to spend eternity with, but that's as vain a thought as the Pharoahs who tried to bring their treasures with them. It can be a hard thing to put the lord above all other things, including things that you love in this life. Part of putting the Lord first for me, I think it to realize that it's truly just the Lord and what he wants that is important. If it is needful for me to read in the next life, it will be because it's part of the Lord's plan for me, not because of my own selfish desires to simply sit back and read for eternity. I think when I read about Martin Harris's sacrifice, that it could not have been easy for him to do. He ended up losing a lot of property and money. According to this site inflation calculator He would have lost over 100,000 ($101,134.02 as calculated to the end of 2024) in today's spending money. How much are we willing to give for the Kingdom of the Lord. We should be willing to sacrifice all we have (which, in truth, as this life is a temporary probation, is actually nothing at all since we don't get to keep any of it anyways). It's getting into that mindset that can be hard though.

https://daggionline.blogspot.com/2005/10/when-im-in-heaven.html?m=1

There is one, above all others, whose personal influence covers the continents, spans the oceans, and penetrates the hearts of true believers. He atoned for the sins of mankind. I testify that He is a teacher of truth—but He is more than a teacher. He is the Exemplar of the perfect life—but He is more than an exemplar. He is the Great Physician—but He is more than a physician. He is the literal Savior of the world, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Holy One of Israel, even the risen Lord, who declared: “I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. … I am the light and the life of the world.” “I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.” - Thomas S. Monson, Your Personal Influence He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 16:15-17

"Factually, a civil war was ongoing in Ukraine for well over a decade. NATO exploited that civil war to create a U.S. proxy war against Russia. Zelenskyy is not negotiating for peace; he’s buying time against what Trump wants to do. He’s buying time for the EU/UK and corrupt NATO interests to organize a separate funding mechanism for continuation of war. The UK/France have promised to provide the intel service. The EU/UK now need to organize the funding mechanisms. They are doing it currently. A generally belligerent Volodymyr Zelensky, who will not accept any terms for negotiated peace (so far), continues playing the victim and saying Russia is violating terms needed for peace. NATO and the EU alliance continue telling Zelensky to keep fighting; Zelensky rejects anything that stops the fighting; NATO and the EU alliance continue demanding that President Trump support Zelensky. That’s the current cycle. Putin knows the game, that’s why he is keeping up the offensive action."

As part of the creation story in Abraham we read in 4:18 And the Gods watched those things which they had ordered until they obeyed. Until they obeyed? That's gotta mean something. D&C 93:30 All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence. I find the wording here particularly interesting. The inability for a thing to act for itself = no existence, not just death or lifelessness, but no existence. But if are going to argue that all matter has agency then I don't think we can say God or Satan "causes" anything. Commands and matter obeys? Yes. But not truly causes, at least not directly. Though I don't know that I am on board with the idea that matter obeys Satan, at least not without God's permission or God's omniscience that allows Him to strategically place disobedient matter only where it serves His purposes. Of course, we would need to better understand what exactly the fall did to matter as well. Is fallen matter a thing? If so, how so. I personally don't see any need to place blame on Satan beyond his ability to entice more intelligent beings. Would he do more if he could? Sure. But even evil spirits entering into swine required the Savior's permission

3. Why does God sometimes cause bad things to happen to Good people? (Various boogaloos in the old testament) I think the answer to this is Agency also, which includes the paradigms and bias through which view the world and the scriptures. I think God teaches us within the spheres in which our agency has prepared us to operated, and this sometimes involves unpleasant experiences as a prompt for exercising and this strengthening trust in Him.

Cleon Skousen actually gives credit of these ideas to the Apostle John A Widtsoe. This single scripture is a major key to the theory. 2 Ne 2:14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon. Also good to compare to Helaman 12: 6-17

Yes, this is he whom we worship. He is the Son of God; the Great Creator. He is our Savior and Redeemer. He is our advocate with the Father. It was he who made possible and brought about the universal resurrection. It was he, with his Father, who appeared to Joseph Smith in the Sacred Grove. -Eldred G. Smith, Who Is Jesus? And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. -John 17:3

I'm the last person on earth to give a crap about what famous people wear to important events, but for whatever reason, I was struck by Melania's choice. - Mob boss wife - Starting mourning her husband early - "You [beep]s tried to kill my husband" The outfit made an impact on me. And I've never had an impact made on me by anyone's outfit before in my entire life (with the obvious exception of my wife on our sealing day).

Ever since around the first week of February, I got the impression that Trump doesn't really expect to survive this term. If he does, great. But he is going forward at ramming speed because he doesn't think he has time to get it all done before he gets killed. He feels like he has nothing to lose. And he's bound and determined to fix the world before he is killed. That gives him tremendous drive to implement the agenda. But it also means there is a degree of wrecklessness.

What happened was that in the 1960s Detroit got complacent. Even with Volkswagen, Renault, and other European car manufacturers slowly moving into the United States the Big Three truly believed that they were untouchable. As part of this, they utterly ignored and rejected the various efficiency experts that came in to try and explain what and how they could improve everything. Well, those efficiency experts went to Japan, where the automakers there were quite eager to hear about these new proposals. Couple this with a variety of other factors going on, like the difference between the yen & dollar, and by the late 1970s Japan was flooding the United States with competitively priced vehicles that were often just as good as, if not better than, their American counterparts. By the time Detroit actually managed to come back with better-quality vehicles, it was too late and the Japanese companies had gotten a permanent foothold. As it is, I'm presently chipping my way through Lee Iacocca's "Talking Straight", and he devotes an entire chapter in there to warning about the nation's growing trade imbalances, especially with how countries like Japan put up barriers and whatnot to make it difficult for American products to be sold abroad. This was 1987 when the book was published, so it's been an known issue for nearly 40 years now. Trump, it seems, is trying to force a resolution of some sort, but he is doing it in a rather ham-fisted fashion.

As I've explained on Twitter - In the kind of business environment Trump came up in, aggression of the type he's been showing is a feature rather than a bug. This aggression can and often does include bluffs, outrageous bids, outrageous demands, and other bits of game theory. The idea is for both parties to throw out ridiculous proposals and then haggle their way down to where everyone is actually wanting to be. The problem is that the last 5 years have broken something inside of Trump. He was done dirty in the 2020 elections, with evidence surfacing to the effect that the Hunter Biden laptop story and several other bits that could have hurt Biden were deliberately suppressed through orchestrated campaigns. [1] He was nearly assassinated due to incompetent Secret Service agents allowing a shooter to get dangerously close to him, with a civilian being killed in the process. He's been the victim of outright lawfare in which various people went to legally questionable lengths to try and destroy him. His family has been the subject of vile comments and the like from ostensible "progressives" who would scream themselves unconscious if the same level of abuse was heaped on them. Various reports are now claiming that the "lab leak" theory for the origin of Covid was indeed more than likely correct. Et cetera. Now reports are coming in from across North America and Europe saying that Tesla owners are being targeted and that Tesla vehicles & facilities are being vandalized or even set on fire, a repeat of the left-wing violence that the nation suffered through in 2020 and years prior. This has ramped his aggression levels up beyond what is normal even for this kind of environment while also blinding him to the fact that he's dealing with individuals who aren't from his same business background and so don't know how the game is played. It's possible that some of these nations will work out compromises that will lead to these tariff issues being dispensed with. But it's just as possible that people will overreact to his intense aggression and make a trade war out of things. [1] Yes, at this point it can indeed be argued that 2020 was stolen due to how much was forcibly suppressed to help Biden out.

I agree it's incomprehensible but this is what I was trying to say earlier. I can't and won't accept that as a final answer, and so I will probably spend the rest of my life trying to make it make sense, which is in no way a bad thing. To just accept it's too hard to fully understand and stop there is lazy in my opinion.

https://general-history.com/why-are-tariffs-bad-according-to-milton-friedman/?amp=1 Let’s ask the Chairman of the Board.

We're told that it is incomprehensible to us. But scriptures give us analogies and metaphors. Summary: Death is a prison. Christ was given power to lay down His life and to take it up again. By doing so, He obtained the keys to the prison gates. Now there is an order to the resurrection. The righteous will be resurrected first (morning of the first resurrection, etc.). The wicked will be released from that prison last. A slightly altered version of this also explains how the Atonement works to save us from sin.

I have a 3 month old girl and she's our first, that's why I'm struggling, I have literally no idea how to live with a baby.

This is an interesting question. 1) We could go the "easy" route and say that the resurrection is simply a gift from God given to all who kept their first estate. That it has no mechanical connection to the resurrection of Christ, but that there was a rule or order set saying that Christ would be the first resurrected and all others would have to wait for that event. Or it could be that the sequencing of resurrection is because the Atonement had to be completed before any could enjoy the blessings that would allow them to inherit a kingdom of glory, and thus their resurrection had to wait until that was completed since the resurrection would raise them to a particular glory. But other than this sequencing requirement, it's a pure gift from God and there isn't anything mechanical tying it to Christ's resurrection. 2) Another possibility is that there's something we don't understand in Christ's resurrection. That just as the Atonement gave Christ the authority/right (Moroni 7:27) to save us from spiritual death, His resurrection gives Him authority/right to save us from physical death. 3) The final is that there is some "mechanical" relationship. Christ's Atonement satisfied the law of justice, paid the price of sin, and allows us to be forgiven of a debt we cannot pay. We don't fully understand how that works, but we have these vague analogies. Perhaps the resurrection, like the Atonement, satisfied a law, or paid a price, and because of that, we can receive the resurrection... I tend to think it's a combination of the first two: 1a) It's a pure gift; 1b) the gift must be delayed because resurrection involves receiving glory, and that can't happen until after the Atonement is complete; 2) by successfully completing His Atonement and resurrection, Christ has gained the right to extend the benefits to us - benefits we would have no other way to receive. If there's some mechanical connection, I'm having a hard time imagining it.

I am looking for some inspiration also as to how people add a spiritual twist to their Easters. I don't want it to be a day about chocolate eggs and lamb legs this year.

One concept I've always struggled to grasp, is how does Christs resurrection mean we can all be resurrected? How does the victory over death work? I understand other aspects of the atonement, how his experience in Gethsemane and death on the cross enables us to be forgiven. But I really struggle to understand how his resurrection enables our resurrection. Is this a bit nit picky? Maybe. I just like to understand.

Over the past few months I've had some conversations with people as to why folks like the Tate Brothers are resonating with so many young men. The long and short of it is that modern Western society has done a rather bang-up job in inadvertently removing male role models from society. Far too many families no longer have a dad kids can rely on, male community leaders are being pressured to step back so women can "have a voice", popular male pop culture figures who in the past would have been a substitute are being discarded in favor of younger and hipper female replacement, and classic social structures like religion are frowned upon by the "elite". As if that wasn't bad enough, far too many "progressive" and "feminist" schools of thought regard men as being flawed & toxic by default. Cue a large number of teens and twenty-somethings being completely adrift in society and looking for anyone or anything that will welcome them with open arms. This is one of the problems the world is facing today, a lack of positive heroes and role models that people can aspire to. Younger people today don't have a Fred Rogers or a Bob Ross to gently dispense time-tested wisdom while helping to form boundaries of personal conduct; they've got the Tate Brothers and the Paul Brothers encouraging them to seek wealth for the sake of wealth and telling them that anything bad which happens to them must be society's fault. ...Thus, a big part of why so many younger individuals, particularly young men, have a botched sense of where they belong in the world and how the world should be reacting to them: they're either being told they're worthless, or being told that anyone who doesn't bow to them is worthless. It's one of the structures I talked about earlier that needs to be addressed in order to try and fix what's going wrong with the world today.

I'd really like to see the Proclamation being canonized as OD3. But I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

I keep hearing about 1 hour church. People keep saying "Seriously, they are already trialing it" the source being "trust me bro" I have also heard rumour about female ward clerks, exec secs and Sunday school presidents. Don't see much of an issue with these, as there aren't any priesthood keys involved with each calling as far as I'm aware. Maybe for ward clerk, definitely not for exec sec or Sunday school presidents though.

If it is hinted at in scriptures, you can "refer" to it in person. If you can find it described in scriptures, you can describe it in person. If you can find it explicitly stated in scriptures, you can state it in person. Examples: Joseph's coat of many colors was most likely his temple garment. When Jacob "wrestled with an angel," that was an endowment ceremony. When Mahonri Morinancumer saw the finger of the Lord, he was receiving a very special endowment. The parable of the wedding feast is a reference to the endowment. Clearly, the uninitiated would not be able to glean the specifics of the temple ceremony from these brief descriptions. But, to those who have been endowed, they are clear -- at least, when properly pointed out. They are vague enough that even the initiated may overlook the reference. But once pointed out, it is pretty clear. Follow the example of scriptures. That's the level that you can talk about it outside the temple.

15 - There's a sentence in Elder Cook's talk that @Ironhold really needs to hear

This reminds me of Alma 32. Specifically verse 25. We were all born with particular strengths and weaknesses and tendencies. What we experience can influence the expression of all of those, but probably some of those tendencies are stronger than others and take more effort and/or outside influences to effect. Unfortunately, I don't think I have any particularly new insights about how to build humility and remove pride. Studying 2 Corinthians 12 and Ether 12 might help. And the usual pray always, reflect and repent frequently, study scriptures daily, partake of the sacrament every week you can. But I think we all might have particular weaknesses that are going to be a lifelong struggle.

I'm guessing any big thing that happens will be something I would never think of, but I want to try anyway. 1 - Adding Proclamation on the Family, The Living Christ, and/or Restoration Proclamation to the canon, probably as part of the Doctrine and Covenants. Possible, but there's a part of me that thinks adding to the scriptures should wait until the new hymnbook comes out so they can then switch the people in charge of hymnbook layout over to the new scripture layout. Seems more efficient personnel-wise. 2 - Calling new leadership Unsure. It's possible that any one of the apostles or presidency members could die this week and have a replacement called quickly. Or an assistant to the twelve could be called. Or maybe it's time for a reorganization of a presidency or the presiding bishopric - I really don't keep up with that. Does anybody know how long those positions usually go between reorganizations? 3 - Change to 1-hour church Possible. I find it unlikely, though. I guess I see too much good in the classes to think they'll be completely axed and find it even less likely that they'll remove sacrament meeting or change it to every other week. I've seen speculation about sacrament meeting being shortened to just the sacrament and then moving to classes, but that could give drastically different meeting lengths depending on ward size (unsure how big a problem that is) and it could be a struggle to get as much value from a shortened class. Especially in Primary, where classes are already only 20 minutes. Eliminating singing time feels like a bad idea. Doing just singing time - maybe? Or alternating week between class and singing time? Sacrament being administered in the classes so as to remove the need to change rooms is a possibility, but that would require either no primary, young women's, or relief society classes or else the priesthood would spend much of the hour going between the various classes to give everybody the chance to partake. All that to say, 1 hour church seems pretty complicated logistically. 4 - Changes to how/when people are ordained to various priesthood offices They just did that. Doesn't necessarily mean it won't happen again. 5 - Addition of an adult version of the Children & Youth program I'd have to think more on this idea. 6 - Use something other than bread and water as default sacrament But why? 7 - 50 new temples announced That could be cool. 8 - No more stake conferences But why? 9 - Quarterly general conference from now on 10 - Announcement of new K-12 (er, primary/secondary) church-sponsored schooling system 12 - Expansion of FSY program to include YSA summer camps

Jesus is the head of his church, the Creator of the universe, the Savior and Redeemer of all mankind, and the Judge of the souls of men. Who he is and what he does affected each of us before we were born and will affect us each day of our mortal lives and throughout the eternities. Much of what he is and does is beyond finite human ability to comprehend, but the Holy Ghost has borne witness to my soul of their reality. - Joseph B. Wirthlin, Our Lord and Savior God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. - Hebrews 1:1-4

I wanted to ponder a bit before responding. In this thread there is a discussion about inanimate objects having a spirit. Electrons are interesting objects that are thought to be inanimate. I am convinced that individual electrons have individual spirits and intelligence. In the quantum world we define electrons with probabilities. The reason is that not all electrons will act the same under the same conditions. As we increase the number of electrons we are “observing” the more it becomes evident that some electrons are defying the physics that seems to govern them. No one has ever come up with a good explanation for quantum entanglement. I chose electrons for this discussion because our physical human bodies will not function without the operations of electrons. We would not even be able to think, see, talk, move – is short even exist as humans without the separate intelligence of electrons. Scripture tells us that physically we come from “dust” and to “dust” we shall return. You quoted from the D&C 93 and I do not disagree at all – except that the physical part of us does indeed have influence as to how we behave and act. We measure much of our human intelligence by how well our individual brains operate. And there is more. The scriptures talk about the “natural man” in terms of that physical influence over us. The scriptures also talk about repentance and how we become a “different” creature. For myself, I am still pondering what I am and if I truly can become a different person. I tend towards (with faith and hope) the possibility that it is likely that we are all on a path that will change what and who we are. The Traveler

I get the sense that everyone on earth with a finger in the war technology pie, is using Ukraine/Russia as a proving ground for their cool modern advancements like drones and electronics and whatnot. So if you consider that sort of thing to be corrupt, I would say that there are no noncorrupt players on the field, and all of the umpires and coaches, and most of the fans are corrupt too.

Moonlight Dreams Moonlight dreams The moon pours rich, it's silvered glow Upon yon sylvan hills. Whence forth the bawdy cricket's row Serenading fervent trills. Thus forward into bed, I head To part with mindless cares. To sleep, nay dream!, instead Of kisses sweet and fair. Or merry flights across treetops And dancing with the winds. Of wondrous slides that ne'er do stop And pillowed landing ends. Remember I, when all is still, Delicious fancies o' the night. Memories loved, exalted thrills In wandered sleep, take flight. So lay me down in slumbered rest No more the day's encumbrance bear To suckle my delusion's breast And feast upon this moonlit fare. -Aeglyn 2012

A couple of thoughts and opinions: So, after 7 years are we really the same being? Yes (D&C 93: 33-34): “For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit (man) and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy; And when separated, man (spirit) cannot receive a fulness of joy.” Now there is another question, are we really a unique singular individual entity? Yes, and as demonstrated in the Fall, where all life followed after Adam and Eve into mortality, we have an integrated relationship stewardship with all other living things. When we are separated from them, we cannot receive a fullness of joy, the family being the most obvious application, but involving the entire eternal ecosystem. This entails the idea of oneness with God, oneness with each other, etc. Man (our spirit) is connected to them all in some fashion, most fundamentally at the level of the light of Christ. When we have a white stone and live on a Urim and Thummim, we will be aware and cognizant of all these interrelationships. Those living in lesser kingdoms will remain less so. I tend to look at faith and knowledge as a complex, or two sides of the same coin of “experience” (or as D&C 93:30 puts it, existence -- a subjective experience). Alma 32 suggests this interdependency, and we can expand this complex to include hope (a desire to believe) and the pure love of Christ (the most precious fruit that is "sweet above all that is sweet"). God uses this complex in His exalted sphere. In this way, faith is the same as “foreknowledge,” the attribute of God which we call “omniscience” from the perspective of our lesser sphere. God gave man his agency in the Garden of Eden as a continuation of premortal agency in a new sphere; the agency we exercise here as children of Adam and Eve is a continuation of that in this new sphere; the dead keep it in the sphere of the spirit world; we keep it post-resurrection spheres or kingdoms. The agency we exercise connects our spirit with the elements with which we are separably and inseparably connected, a fulness being that connection with all other life and existence.

Even if Job is allegorical, we have many other reports of the devil manipulating matter, but only within the sphere in which God has placed him. God cast him to the earth, and will someday cast him to outer darkness.

I have pondered how to join the conversation. We can get different views and understanding of things, like intelligence, by considering from a standpoint of macro or micro thinking. We get a similar result in physics from Newtonian or quantum physics. Even if we are just considering who and what we are we think of our body and what is encompassed within it as that which defines us. But as we look at our physical entity at the micro level, we find parts of us constantly being reborn at a cellular level. Over a 7-year period there is a complete turnover of our living cells. And all these living cells evolve as they are being turned over. So, after 7 years are we really the same being? We also learn that here are living cells within us are of different DNA. It could be said that they are different creatures with whom we have formed a symbiotic relationship, and as it turns out there are more of those cells than there are of the cells that carry our unique DNA. Now there is another question, are we really a unique singular individual entity? I believe we have the same macro micro problem with our intelligence. Our immune system is both a strange and a wonderful intelligence that seems to operate completely without our awareness. We, as unique individuals, have intelligence beyond our cognizance and awareness. Perhaps the best definition of intelligence we are given through science. There are two parts. First the ability to learn and second is the power to change the outcome. One way to characterize learning and changing the outcome is in the scientific notion of evolution, especially the evolution of life and intelligent life. Having worked with artificial intelligence during my lifetime contributions – it appears to me that distributed intelligence working as one is the most powerful. We see this in what we call ecosystems of many complex parts working together creating a common good for all. Finally, is the concept of freewill or agency. My main concern is that agency is not simply a choice. It hast to be much more than that. We have to choose the outcome and not what is at the moment – else it is not a choice but rather a guess. In this life, what we know and experience between birth and death is too uncertain for any choice to be stable and reliable. We are primarily guessing the outcome. The only possibility for consistency is that the exercise of agency can only be actual if there is a pre-existence and a post death exercise of will completing the process. I find this concept to only exist in part in reincarnation but only realistic in LDS theology. But I believe there are still logical holes that are unexplained or understood. We believe that all things were known by G-d as to what would take place in our lives, but only if we were allowed to choose through our agency what takes place can there be the exercise of freewill and agency. The Traveler

Purdue is out. Go Houston.

Some points (mostly based on opinion) to add or consider in your analysis: - Intelligence (described as light/truth) is independent [in that sphere in which God has placed it – how independent is that?], and has the capacity to act freely [in that sphere in which God has placed i]. - Elements, likely meaning bodies or physical matter are also eternal, and inseparable from intelligence. [If spirit and element can be inseparably connected (eternally), they can also be separably connected (temporary): that is why we need a Redeemer]. [Since everything is matter, mater is inherently inseparable, but some matter operates in different spheres than others hence the separable/inseparable nature of different kinds of matter]. RE: Vere 22: There were also many of the less noble and great in the same place: where is the hierarchy? Tis seems more a reflection of varying spheres of operation where God places us where we are prepared to function. Brigham Young: The life in all things is the light of Christ and everything operates in its own sphere, and sometimes acted upon also, and some things are solely acted upon. The light of Christ in a speck of dust will not contradict the light of Christ ordering it to attach itself elsewhere. Satan can warp or filter the light of Christ to the point of appearing as an angel of light, and to heal, but no further than the sphere in which God has placed him to act. We do the same thing when we apply the laws of nature, all governed by the light of Christ, for evil purposes. Erstwhile ostensible saints can give that which is holy to the dogs. There really is no problem of evil; it is the mind of the beholder that does not understand the Redeemer.

I think He has better ways, but clearly sound can impact physical matter in more ways that the average soul usually imagines. I'm not convinced of either sentence. God cannot be unjust. Unfair? Guess it depends what that means. I don't think God restricts anything. I think He helps everything be and become the very best it is willing to become. Well, he may be the exception. Or what we mean by "intelligence" and what Brigham Young meant and what Joseph Smith meant and what God meant may all be different enough not to equate. I didn't mean to suggest it did, only that we have a better source than Brigham Young that all things were created spiritually before being created naturally / physically. I'm not sure 2 Nephi 2's dichotomy is as fixed as it seems - for example, a rock pretty clearly seems like a thing to be acted upon. But then, so does water, and yet water can act upon the rock - so to speak. Is an animal a thing to act or a thing to be acted upon? How about a plant? (Science are learning a lot about trees that might surprise you - they communicate through fungal networks and mother trees help baby trees - rather than hogging all the sunlight and starving the poor baby out. I'm anthropomorphizing here, but that's because I don't have the source and this was how my imagination ran with it - I write stories that include sentient mushrooms, a sphinx that looks a lot like a baby lion with wings, and a talking snek, after all.) Anywho, I think you get the point. Eventually we will understand (perhaps remember). In the meantime, fun though such diversions are, probably best not to turn them into rabbit holes. Love it! I knew an elderly couple who had turned a set of sliding closet doors into a white board and had some pretty amazing stuff diagrammed up there. If I were rich, I'd have all my walls sanded smooth and painted with dry-erase paint - or just have sheets of acrylic screwed to all the walls (perhaps alternating with carpeting for the cats...). I don't either. Was just giving you a heads up.

W_Cleon_Skousen_The_Meaning_Of_The_Atonement.mp3 Skousen's talk. Around 20 minutes he mentions the inspiration of his mission president, John A. Widsoe. When you listen to general conference, look for the 2 Ne 2: 14 quote. It will be there a couple of times, always is.

I’m heartbroken that BYU got rained on. That was crazy, 25 3-pointers… Very excited about next year though. AJ Dybantsa will bring a huge amount of national attention. First game next season is Villanova. If we can retain Egor Demin and Richie Saunders, it will be awesome. Hopefully we can continue winning seasons with deep penetration into March. Kevin Young has a 7 year contract worth 30M. Alumni with NIL deep pockets helps considerably as well. I also went to the University of Houston a couple years and Med school @ Texas Tech so I still got a couple teams in the dance.

And my temple-location-guessing resources Temples, Stakes, and Districts Map Places without temples: North American States/Provinces/Territories New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Prince Edward Island, Yukon Delaware, Maine, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Northern Mariana Islands, Rhode Island, South Dakota, U.S. Virgin Islands, Vermont, West Virginia Aguascalientes, Baja California Sur, Campeche, Colima, Durango, Guanajuato, Guerrero, Michoacan, Nayarit, Tlaxcala, Zacatecas Africa Algeria, Benin, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Eswatini, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Lesotho, Libya, Malawi, Mali, Mauritania, Mauritius, Morocco, Namibia, Niger, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Senegal, Seychelles, Somalia, South Sudan, Sudan, Tanzania, The Gambia, Togo, Tunisia, Zambia Asia/Middle East Afghanistan, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Brunei, Georgia, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, Lebanon, Malaysia, Maldives, Myanmar, Nepal, North Korea, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sri Lanka, Syria, Tajikistan, Timor-Leste, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen Europe Albania, Andorra, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czechia, Estonia, Greece, Iceland, Kosovo, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Poland, Romania, San Marino, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Turkey, Vatican City Also Wales and Northern Ireland Central America/Caribbean Antigua and Barbuda, Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Cuba, Dominica, Grenada, Jamaica, St. Kitts and Nevis, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Trinidad and Tobago Oceania Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu South America Guyana, Suriname Also French Guiana and the Falklands Utah Counties Beaver, Carbon, Daggett, Duchesne, Emery, Garfield, Grand, Juab, Kane, Millard, Morgan, Piute, Rich, Sevier, Summit, Wasatch, Wayne

I have gotten the impression that as we get further into the last days, both the good and the bad in the world increase.

Rumor: 1 hour church. I don't buy it. @Ironhold is right. There is a lot of ugliness in the world. Lots of coldness and unhappiness. That doesn't mean there are not happy warm people, but to deny the reality of the darkness in the world is naive.

Another way to put it: "I'm considering becoming a pediatric doctor. I hear that means I am promising to labor in my trade for anyone who wants, regardless of who can pay or not, whether they're dangerous or not, whether I will be able to pay my bills or not. Because apparently healthcare is free, and which means me and the other pediatric doctors don't get a say in the matter. I wonder what the penalty is for refusing service. Does the government get involved? Will they try to pressure, coerce, or force me to ply my trade even if I have good reasons against it? Will they imprison me, or seize my medical license, or fine me, or tax me until I comply? Nah. I think I'll become a tax accountant instead. At least until the government decides that tax accounting is a right that must be provided for free because we live in a just and equitable society."