Midwest LDS
-
Posts
1069 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
5
Posts posted by Midwest LDS
-
-
@Vort I think I see where you are coming from. Honestly I feel like we are more or less on the same page. In this instance where your parent is asking you to do something different because of a personal response from someone (in this scenario most likely a bishop or young men's leader or something) yes I think it's appropriate to try to help out. I'm thinking more about coping skills long term than a personal appeal for help. In that instance I can see helping out the person asking rather than analyzing it.
-
Oh and FYI I enjoy discussions about church doctrine and practice. While I have some disagreements with some things said, please no one take anything I am saying in malice as absolutely none is intended☺
-
Once again though, I have too respectfully disagree with you @Vort. Without going deep into your analogy, you never really explain how the Mom has found out about this problem. Did this young lady stroll up and announce this too them? What is this young lady supposed to do the 40 hours she is in the workplace every week surrounded by men who will never stop wearing green ties? Is 2 hours a week in Sacrament meeting and combined activity so overwhelming she can't possibly control herself here when she can the other 6 days a week? I believe you are building a strawman argument to support your position. I don't believe there is any situation where a young man (and let's be honest as I said before modesty is mostly a problem our women have to worry about not our men) is surrounded by inappropriately dressed women 6 days a week at the grocery store, at work, at school, at the pool, walking down the street but he is overwhelmed by the sight of a young woman's shins for 30 minutes at a combined activity and that's what sends him over the edge to commit sin? As I said earlier, the young man should be counselled by priesthood leaders and given tools to control his desire before he does something stupid because he is surrounded all week by women who couldn't care less about his problem. What is he going to do on his mission when a woman opens the door in her underwear (happened to me)? Or he's married and home alone and the internet starts its siren song? Once again we absolutely should teach our young women modesty, it's important and I think it's important for leaders and parents to teach them why young men are different from them. No one is arguing otherwise. But rather than teach them a completely worthless skill ("if you're feeling tempted junior, go talk to Sister Jones and ask her to change what she's wearing) teach him one that can legitimately help him ("if you're feeling tempted junior, sing a hymn to yourself, or take a walk, or read your scriptures, or go talk to your friends"). That's how we help the young men. Especially when they leave the church building and are surrounded by a sea of women who, unlike the woman at church, don't care about modesty and will never change what they are wearing.
-
@Snigmorder um number 2?
-
That's pretty cool about your brother @Vort what a miracle. Ok I suppose it's my turn.
1. I have met a President of the United States and shook his hand.
2. My grandmother has had a private dinner with Prince Charles.
3. I have leaped out of a plane at a small airport in Ohio.
-
-
I agree with @prisonchaplain. While I certainly disagree with much of what Osteen says theologically, I just have a hard time throwing stones at people who don't behave the way I think they should from my comfy armchair. Osteen, whatever his faults, just doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would let poor people suffer on purpose and I don't approve of the attacks on him about Houston.
- Jane_Doe and prisonchaplain
-
2
-
I see where you are coming from @Vort and I think I can agree with you somewhat. After all, we shouldn't approach a problem with Cain's attitude and if there is anything we can reasonably expect to do to help one another we should. But how are you supposed to know, in this instance specifically, if there is something you can do to help someone out? Forgive me if I'm not thinking broadly enough, but the only way I can think of being made aware of such a problem is someone coming up and saying "you shouldn't where xyz because it tempts me." I find that approach to be inappropriate especially because if they are encouraged to do that it could lead to severe problems in say a workplace where doing so could lead to complaints about creating a hostile work environment. While I think it's completely appropriate to teach specifics in a class setting about how to dress modestly or how differently men and women view the exposure of the body, it seems excessive when done from person to person as in your example. Although I can foresee instances where priesthood or female leaders could gently correct someone who is dressing immodestly, I just don't see how this is a good idea on an individual basis. Far better, in my opinion, to teach our young men how to control and redirect their thoughts since usually they will be surrounded by non LDS women who will not care if they are struggling.
-
@prisonchaplain Yep our Proclamation on the Family is very similiar to the Nashville statement. I read the Nashville Statement myself yesterday, and I agreed with it fully, although I was somewhat surprised it was picked out for censure. After all it's not new information, as you said it's biblical. Not surprised they don't like it, the natural man is an enemy to God, but it picked up a lot more attention than I expected.
-
Agreed @anatess2 I should have been more direct in my post about what I was talking about instead of jumping in the middle. And I do think the OP needs to respect herself and dress modestly in order to follow the commandments and respect herself.
-
I agree with you more or less @Anddenex. I've been reading this forum for a while and I don't think anybody was advocating blaming women for men's problems. Honestly I was more taking exception to the idea that a man should walk up to a woman and criticize her clothing. To me that smacks of being a Pharisee, and my argument was mostly that unless it's an extremely bad case (ie topless) or you have some sort of responsibility for the ward or part of it (Bishop, Relief Society President, Young Women's President) you shouldn't be walking up to people in your ward and criticizing their clothing.
-
I do believe in dressing modestly and I am glad the church teaches this concept as it think it's an important part of living the commandments and maintaining self respect. However, I think it's hard for me to take such a minutely detailed stance on the subject because I'm male. Since I don't stroll around town shirtless nor do I wear a banana sling to the beach, modesty does not affect 99% of my day to day life. It's much more difficult for sisters as many of them have pointed out. This is a constant and daily concern for our sisters as we live in a world that does not care about the subject. Let me posit a different scenario for you to help my fellow men gain some perspective. A sister spends days or even weeks trying to find something nice to wear. I've watched my mom, sisters, and wife go through this. She has to sift through a dozen stores, all who for some reason size everything differently, and pick out something modest from a veritble sea of immodest clothing. She finally finds a dress that she feels is flattering but respectful to her body with a nice floral print and goes to church with it that Sunday. Only at church a certain brother strolls up to her and says, "I'm sorry sister, but I am intimately aroused by daisies, could you wear something different?" and now she's expected to go through that entire process again over a request that ridiculous? I'm sorry but it's our responsibility to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord, not someone else's. For heaven's sake most of us work or go to school with non members who can dress very provocatively and we have to control ourselves there. Why should we be allowed to drop our self control at church amongst women who are genuinely trying to live the commandments and nitpick their almost universally more modest choices? Modesty is important and we should dress modestly but unless your area has a problem with women coming into church topless, deal with your own problems and leave the sisters alone.
-
I'm sorry you are going through this brother that's really rough. I know how devastated I would be if my wife ever told me this. I'm not sure if I can help but, for what it's worth, I think you should do two things.
1. Love your wife. Nothing builds affection better than receiving affection. Do everything you can to show how much you love her. That doesn't necessarily mean over the top romantic gestures, but little things like giving her a break from the kids, taking her on a nice night out, aknowledge her efforts to do nice things for you, just telling her you love her etc.
2. Make sure the lines of communication are as open as you can make them. She may have said this many years ago when she was in a really down period of her life (ppd is rough) and not really feel it anymore or not realize how much you have been hurt by it. If she does or isn't willing to sit and talk with you alone, a counselor (a good one not one who reccomends divorce) may help facilitate your communication. If you can't honestly talk to one another, these problems will never go away and may fester and cause even greater heartache later.
I'm sorry you're going through this trial, and my prayers are with you guys.
- Sunday21, Backroads and meadowlark
-
3
-
Welcome @Anonymous1101. As several others have pointed out the answer is yes it is. Here is an article on the topic for parents teaching children about the Law of Chastity, but the principles apply to everyone https://www.lds.org/ensign/1986/12/talking-with-your-children-about-moral-purity?lang=eng
Avoid pornography like a plague my friend it will lead you too nothing but misery and unhappiness. But don't despair. The church has a large number of resources to help you get over this. First go to your Bishop, confess, and follow his counsel as he is Christ's servant. In addition take a look at the Church's addiction recovery book. I promise you that through the Grace of Jesus Christ you can be forgiven and can overcome your problems with the Law of Chastity. The earlier you start the better.
-
Sorry you're having a rough time. I remember I had rough days like that when I was in the branch presidency and frequently felt overwhelmed (as any of you who have done the same can testify, Sunday was 7 hours of work minimum). What helps me is reminding myself of the primary reason why I'm at church. I'm not there to lead, preach, or teach first. I'm there to worship Jesus Christ and partake of the Sacrament for my own salvation. Once I started focusing on that, the rest came easier. (Of course I got released as soon as I learned that but it's been helpful in all my callings☺).
My prayers are with you brother.
-
Honestly I think the reason the bretheren haven't defined how one pays tithing is significant. For the moment at least, it seems to be a matter between the tithe payer and God. If you feel God is leading you to pay on gross than do so. If you feel he leads you to pay on net than do that. Unless and until the church decides to define tithing beyond what it already has, either is acceptable.
-
I joined the church when I was 8 with my mom. My stepdad was an inactive member, so the missionaries would stop by from time to time and eventually we listened to them☺. While my testimony has grown by leaps and bounds over the years, I've known since we joined that this was Christ's church.
I think whether or not I wish there were no bad days depends heavily on whether I am currently experiencing one lol.
Sometimes it's hard to be a Mormon , especially when you feel you are trying to stand alone against the world. But then I remember what the Lord taught Elisha's servant and can almost see the chariots of fire around me.
-
I try to act the same no matter who I'm with. Obviously I don't always succeed, but I grew up in a somewhat similiar situation to you @GirlNextDoor. I'm a convert who joined the church with my mom when I was younger, and so grew up with most of my friends and family being non-members. If anything, I think this made my siblings and I act more Mormon just to stand out from the crowd. We sure didn't always succeed, but for us it was important to hold tight to what made us unique. But I realize that's just my own personal experience. It's next to impossible to accurately generalize how a diverse group acts in a given situation.
-
@SpiritDragonNo problem I was curious about it too.
-
@SpiritDragon I found this on LDS.org I hope it helps.
- Send an email to [email protected].
-
To receive the priesthood line of authority request form in English, type the letters PLA in the subject line.
- To receive the request form in Spanish, type the letters PLA SP in the subject line.
- To receive the request form in Portuguese, type the letters PLA PT in the subject line.
- Instructions for completing the request form and receiving the priesthood line of authority by email will be included in the return email
- SpiritDragon and seashmore
-
2
-
-
@Mike I agree with you. In principal, I find George Thomas much more laudable to Robert E. Lee as he stayed loyal to the United States. I just don't like recent mob actions destroying statues which I think sets a bad precedent. Remove it according to law or don't is kind of how I feel
-
Generally speaking I agree with @Vort. History always has and always will be written by the winners. But revisionist history can be written by the losing side as well. Take the myth of the "Lost Cause" by Southern historians after the war. It was by and large successful as many today still teach the the South's cause was noble but they were doomed to fail. What's lost is the actual history of the war in the process. Read the Articles of Secession from any of the Confederate States. What State right are they afraid the almighty federal government will trample on? Slavery. South Carolina's, which is similar to them all, specifically points out the refusal to enforce the fugitive slave act and working to abolish slavery as the reason for secession. Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederacy, does the same. There was no state right threatened other than slavery, at least in the minds of Southerners. They also fired the first shot at Fort Sumter. The only reason there was a war is because of actions thet took. I point this all out to Illustrate a point. A. The South is not the noble victim it tries to proclaim itself to be. B. Despite that, I reject the authority of mobs to make policy decisions. I don't like the Confederacy. But the current mobocracy sickens me so I'm starting to fall on the side of keeping the statues since we can't remove them civilly.
-
By the way @Just_A_Guy I appreciate the Admiral Beatty quote☺.
Mad at Modesty
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by Midwest LDS
Also as I've previously stated I believe girls and boys should be taught modesty clearly with a discussion about how boys and girls are affected differently by the Law of Chastity. If there's one thing I would say we as members of the church could do better at it's having open and frank discussions with our youth about the Law of Chastity. I think we are improving but it does a disservice to our youth not to be clear about bilogical differences as @Carborendum suggests. My main point is not against modesty, but how we go about teaching it to our young men and how to deal with their temptations.