NeuroTypical

You'll have to forgive this guy, and all the others like him in this church. I think some of this attitude has to do with computer illiteracy. Some folks just have absolutely zero experience with computers, other than through the church. For some of these folks, they take their inexperience and ignorance, and attach to it a reverent patriarchical sacredness to bits and keyboards and whatnot that just simply doesn't belong there. Just in the last few years, the foyer of my church was all abuzz with melodrama. One lady had a disk containing "very important new direction and counsel from our church leaders regarding the coming tribulations". It turned out to be a decade-old DOS program for calculating calorie needs for food storage purposes. You put in family members, genders and ages, it told you how many pounds of wheat for a year, etc. These good folks were acting like they had discovered the holy grail or something. My wife got a bit upset at me for taking it so lightly at first, until she saw what it actually was. Also, apparently, the church office building is full of people who don't understand that there's a difference between someone's place on the company org chart, and their priesthood authority. *shrug* It takes all kinds, I guess.

My family can trace our ancestry back to juuust barely the English side of the England/Scotland border. It's been a sore point for decades - despite having a Scottish last name, we can't point to a Scottish ancestor. So I married someone who could, so my kids could reap the blessings of genuine Scottish ancestry. (If this lighthearted bit of LM family story gives you a brief smile because it's basically frivolous nonsense, you might ask yourself why we care so much about a story like this in the first place.)

The Mennonite I worked for didn't dress any differently than anyone else. She was an older lady and preferred modest dresses to business suits, but I didn't give it a second's thought until someone brought it to my attention. Mennonites:

Nope. Emails are free - why not just email a two letter, one word response back? I don't understand why everyone is getting all upset about this. They're just asking you a question, right?

I'm still trying to figure out how she was wronged.Is it because someone was 'snotty' to her? Is it because the dance had rules and they shouldn't have applied to her because she was from somewhere else?

I'm always amazed at how much importance people place on the alleged "snottyness" of whoever is in charge and making the decision. As if someone "being snotty" to you somehow means the rules aren't there, or you should be able to ignore them because of how "snotty" someone was to you. (Can you tell that I'm not impressed when I hear the word "snotty"?)

Hi GeoRioux, That's a bundle of issues there. Lots of folks struggling with the various things you mention - but when you struggle with all of them at the same time, it can seem a bit overpowering. I'll just address your first question. Your question "how do you know the church is true?" Short answer: God told me it was. Directly and unmistakably. There are a ton of mormons who go through life as mormon, without such a confirmation. It sounds like you and your wife have been doing this, and it's no longer working for either of you. That's certainly understandable. Long answer: Here are the details:

It's refreshing to hear all the "oh my gosh" and "oh my heck"'s. Not usual fare here in CO.

I remember 25 years ago, opining that he had done a deal with the devil to remain young forever.

Actually, I think that's not a half bad analogy. One reason something is at the fringe of something, is because everyone and their dog is all somewhere else. It's why I refer to myself lightheartedly as "one of those crazy mormons" in conversations with people who don't know anything about us. It helps break the ice, and it works a whole lot better than demanding to be looked at as mainstream, and then sarcastically arguing with anyone who isn't willing to immediately accept everything I have to say.We used to be real big on telling everyone "we are a peculiar people". Are you sure you can't bring yourself to do the same thing with your nutty website?

No. But having "liberate oppressed knowledge" as part of a site's "manifesto" sure the heck makes it one.Come on zenbones - you believe a fringe conspiracy website is a good source of news. I honestly don't automatically disagree with you. But when people refuse to admit what something is, that's can be a red flag.

So how about it Little Wyvern, would you agree with my three statements above? If not, why not?

As far as I can tell, here's how the church stands on the issue: Mockery: God has better things to do than get offended by people doing something unintentionally. If you're doing it to be mocking, then it's mocking, but we really don't care. You can go burn scriptures too, if that's your thing. Children: It's just fine. Think of it as a teaching tool. Children over 8 and not baptized: Let the bishop deal with it and keep your nose out of other people's business. Member taking sacrament unworthily: Let the bishop deal with it and keep your nose out of other people's business. Nonmember visitors: You can't renew covenants you haven't made. Don't worry - we didn't just sucker you into being Mormon. If doing what the rest of us did, brought a spiritual element into your visit, then hooray everybody. You're in a room full of people who will be happy to explain what it means to us. Non-priesthood passing the sacrament: My wife handed the tray to me last Sunday. If you have a problem with that, take it up with her. I dare you. Adding stuff that doesn't belong:

All I'm learning here, is you people can't tell the difference between cake icing and diaper cream. Now I just gotta come to the next LDS.net get together. I'll bring the cake!

And that's what comes from men and women dancing!

Oh I get it Funky. Sorry - what I said came across harsher than I meant it. Ok - time for a test. Would you agree with the following?:* The New Black Panther's call for the capture or killing of Zimmerman is defined by the fact that they are left wing. * Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's killing of 13 in Fort Hood, is defined by the fact that he is a muslim. * The Mountain Meadows Massacre is defined by the fact that those who carried out the executions were Mormon.

And pie is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Tevye and Golde have been role models for me and my wife, as we try to have a happy and eternal marriage. And also, after 5 years, I still love my signature.

I'm ultra right-wing. We don't claim Anders. He's not one of ours. He has about as much to do with the ultra right wing, as Warren Jeffs has to do with the First Presidency. I do not accept the media's attempt to associate him with the right wing as valid. It's about as valid as associating Hitler with proponents of socialism.

Throw away if there's any air or bulging, or if there's discoloration. If it's been stored in a dark cool dry place, it's probably ok to eat, but it may have lost some taste, texture, and/or nutrient value. If you're invested in not throwing it away unless it's bad, you can always test a small amount first before making a meal.

Dang. One expensive bird.

"Love thy neighbor" can be difficult sometimes. It means that you wish people the best, and sincerely hope that they have moved forward with their lives and no longer are off doing dumb stuff that makes folks miserable. When you love thy neighbor, you rejoice at indications that someone is better or more than they used to be. "They used him in a conference talk? How cool is that! I knew him back before he was someone you'd use in conference. Glad he didn't make a life out of that garbage." It's not easy, but it can be done. Another way to look at it - if you can't for the life of you imagine sharing the celestial kingdom with someone, then you won't need to worry about it - because you won't be there. Lack of forgiveness is a greater sin than whatever you're not forgiving someone for.

That's ok Nadia. I remember being totally dumbfounded by the notion, when my episcopalean friend showed up one day wearing his Scout uniform. I thought he was a spy or something.

By the way, my "Earth crashes into Jupiter" dream was one of the most peaceful dreams I'd ever had, as well as one of the most visually stunning. We were outside in our back field on a nice clear day. The only problem was, the entire sky was taken up with Jupiter. From horizon to horizon was nothing but those colorful red swirling winds - I finally got a sense for how massive Jupiter was in relation to earth in this dream. I was standing there with my family, and was vaguely wondering if this wouldn't start impacting gravity, or plate tectonics, or suck the atmosphere away or something. Then in under a second, every structure in our neighborhood and all the vehicles just smashed completely flat. Every stack of hay, every fence post, every weed and blade of grass, just collapsed down into itself and became about as thick as a smashed soda can. It was accompanied by a very unique sound - like the sound of a hundred tires popping at the same time, but the escaping air was being crushed and compressed as well. I'll always remember that sound. Then my family and I, still standing there, exchanged some worried glances with each other. Then it dawned on us that our physical bodies were somewhere in what used to be our house. I remember thinking "well, that wasn't bad at all", as I looked into the eyes of my family and saw they were ok. Yep - if we ever crash into Jupiter, I want it to be like that. But no, I can't really bring myself to believe that my dream had anything to do with any sort of foreshadoing or reality.

I guess you can't really call them "comedians", although I'm at a loss to find a more descriptive term, but my family gets a huge kick out of the Kid History videos.