Mixing the races..?

[MissKitty]

Hello every one not been on in a while. Not a lots changed a part from I've met a very nice young man. He is African and my mother mentioned, though not racistly, that some one in the church had mentioned to her when her daughter was dating an African guy that we are counciled not to mix the races.

The only scripture reference I found was in Alma (I think it was Alma) when he councils the tribes not to corrupt their seed by mixing but I can hardly see how that is important now?

I feel strongly we are all children of God so what does it matter if hes pink white orange yellow purple from timbuktoo or outta space (well ok if hes from outta space that might be a bit tricky) ! :)

Can anyone tell me anything more about this?

[Traveler]

There is only one human race. The attempts to create any division based on race is an issusion.

It can be difficult to mix cultures in a marriage. But I believe it is the abilities and determinations of individuals to stay married (even more than love) that makes a marriage successful.

The Traveler

[prisonchaplain]

In several strings quotes from church leaders, mostly from 3-4 decades ago, counseled that marrying within one's race and class was safest because of similar worldviews. However, most here seem to conclude that the advice given was very general, and was not meant to be restrictive, merely cautionary.

My wife is of another race and culture, and I could not be happier with her. Though, my joy is due to her, not her race or culture.

[MissKitty]

Traveler I couldn't have put my feelings any better than that first line. God created one world - we stuck all the boundries in it!

I have actually prayed a few times and felt positive feelings.

Thanks Priho also that makes sense because there was a time that a white person marrying a black person could have potentially caused a lot of friction and contention and to avoid that I can see why church leaders may have cautioned agaisnt it. Still my mums friends opinion didn't have a great deal of impact on her daughter as the two of them got married

Edited March 29, 2010 by MissKitty

[Wingnut]

We had a thread about this only two weeks or so ago.

[Moksha]

Race mixing sound a lot like a KKK term. I feel certain that we 21st Century LDS rise above any such worrys or prejudices.

[WindRiver]

The counsel I have seen in our time was that it can cause problems in some places and to be aware of them. I never saw anything saying it shouldn't be done.

Just go into it with both eyes open. It is a fact that bigotry exists everywhere in the world, be it race based, gender, social stature, religious or whatever.

Weigh the issues / potential for problems where you live, and decide with an open mind and heart if you want to proceed, get the OK from your Father in Heaven on whom ever you choose as a marriage partner then move forward with confidence and faith.

Clearly there will be some issues in virtually all countries depending on the "mix" factor be it race, religion etc. A wide variation of bigotry is also found within different parts of the same country.

In some places in the world it can be sufficient to endanger the safety and even the very life of both partners and their children especially when the mix takes on a religious aspect that is in conflict with a violent prone dominant group.

[bytebear]

I think God never had issues with "mixing the races" but there was a time when the gospel was reserved for Israel, and marriage outside the covenant of Abraham was forbidden. It's still discouraged to date or marry outside the church.

As to leaders council on marrying outside one's race, I think it is and was a cultural issue. In the violent times where marrying one outside of your race could lead to shunning, discrimination or even death, it was probably prudent to recommend not "rocking the boat". And this was true within and outside the church. We hadn't grown up yet, and God knew it. But, now we are more mature as a society, and the issue really is moot in western culture (for the most part), but it may not be the case in all cultures or societies.

[hordak]

The Church still teaches it. It is in the Aaronic Priesthood manual.

[MarginOfError]

The Church still teaches it. It is in the Aaronic Priesthood manual.

Just because I'm too lazy to go searching the Aaronic Priesthood manuals, could you direct me to which one?

[MissKitty]

The Church still teaches it. It is in the Aaronic Priesthood manual.

A little more information would be helpful - pretty please?

[hordak]

Aaronic Priesthood manual 3. Choosing an eternal companion.

I should point out Misskitty, my purpose isn't to dissuade you from dating this man. But to show that this isn't some obscure 1960 sign of the times quote given by a missinformed member but something taught from the manual updated in 1995.

Personally i see it like all council, general advice for the membership at large but something that doesn't fit every situation. So if you like this guy, date him and don't let the color of his skin getting in the way.

[Tarnished]

I think the counsel given is due to cultural differences. The idea is this, marriage is difficult, you will have times that try you to your core, and adding cultural differences into the mix can cause additional problems to the regular problems that married people already see. As others have said, the counsel is really advice not a commandment to not marry outside of your race. If the person makes you happy and you think you could be happy married to them then I don't think there is any problem with marrying them. You should however be ready for the trials that may come up from a multi-racial marriage.

[SLC2002GOLD]

Race mixing sound a lot like a KKK term. I feel certain that we 21st Century LDS rise above any such worrys or prejudices.

It's posts like yours, that remind me why I rarely post or participate on these boards.

[FunkyTown]

It's posts like yours, that remind me why I rarely post or participate on these boards.

Please, if you're going to argue a point, argue a point. Simply attacking someone for offering their view is hardly conducive to either teaching or discussing.

[Bluejay]

Hi, Gold.

It's posts like yours, that remind me why I rarely post or participate on these boards.

I don't see anything particularly objectionable in Moksha's post. Sure, KKK references may be a little excessive (like Hitler references), but not so excessive as to deserve ridicule (in this case, at least).

You might be interested to know that "race" is a loaded term to begin with: studies have shown that, beyond a handful of outward characteristics, there really isn't much genetic or biological distinctiveness between races.

In light of this, I think Moksha's point is spot-on: defining people by "race" really stems from the same kind of superficial mentality that results in bigotry and intolerance, and really is a mentality that should be avoided.

[Saguaro]

A little more information would be helpful - pretty please?

Here's the quote: “We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144)."

You can find it here: LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Choosing an Eternal Companion

In my opinion the quote is dated and should be removed from the lesson manual. If I was giving this lesson I would skip over it. It's from 1976, before the priesthood ban on blacks was lifted. One could argue it's just good advice, but when a prophet says something is "preferred" it carries a lot of weight.

You can teach principles such as compatability and harmony in a relationshiop without playing the race card.

[pam]

I'm in total agreement with you Saguaro. I, too, wish they would remove it.

[Moksha]

Here's the quote: “We recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question” (“Marriage and Divorce,” in 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1977], p. 144)."

As you will note, this was before the lifting of the ban in 1978. Sure, some lingering racism remained - especially in the minds of a few older members who were raised on that type of thinking.

The important thing to remember are the words of President Gordon Hinckley when he said that one cannot be a true disciple of Christ if there is racial hatred in one's hearts. To that end, we must seek to recognize such lingering remnants of racial animosity and remove them from our thinking and actions.

Let me share my ideas about that unequally yoked thing. We are all unequally yoked. None of us think exactly alike, especially men and women. None of our values are exactly the same either. Marriage is always an uphill battle that must be attended to. If Maria was really to adhere to the words of Anita about sticking to her own kind, she would have been stuck with a fellow seamstress that was oh so pretty and could sing.

The old time thought is that it is best to marry outside your village or clan. There was wisdom in that thought.

[JohnnyRudick]

I think the counsel given is due to cultural differences. The idea is this, marriage is difficult, you will have times that try you to your core, and adding cultural differences into the mix can cause additional problems to the regular problems that married people already see. As others have said, the counsel is really advice not a commandment to not marry outside of your race. If the person makes you happy and you think you could be happy married to them then I don't think there is any problem with marrying them. You should however be ready for the trials that may come up from a multi-racial marriage.

I believe the above quote had to be reposted.

"Race" has very little relivence today but "culture" has a lot to do with it.

Yes we are all different and think differently.

But we should not go out of our way to make it even more difficult by paring up

with someone who lives a different life style, has different ideas on how children

should be raised or not raised.

Worships a different god and the only thing you have in common is that you

hate your parents or that you think the other one is sexy.

Get to know each other better first.

Find out how each other "thinks" and "feels" rather then "looks".

Give it at least a year of "talking" and "listening" and if you are still in Love, God bless the both of you:)

[Snow]

It's posts like yours, that remind me why I rarely post or participate on these boards.

It's posts like yours, SLC2002GOLD, that remind me why some species of animals eat their young. Ya'll take care now - ya'hear.

[MobyMule]

Yeah I know when I joined the church is wasn't said you couldn't but more of counsel to be careful because of the difference of culture and what the children from that union may have to endure. Now I think in some areas it is wise counsel because the backward thinking of some is still around in parts of the country. But good thing people have freedom and attitudes are changing.

Again this is a matter of personal revelation. Get good advice and counsel then go the Lord after you have pondered it. An answer will come just be humble and patient.

[prisonchaplain]

This remains me of a great line from a cute ethnic play called "Uff-Da! It's Christmas!" A couple of Mt. Vernon, WA residents are talking, and one says to the other that, "Rumor has it a good Swedish gal is going to marry one of them Norwegian fellas.." "Ya," the other replies, "It'll be the first bi-racial marriage in the county."

[RipplecutBuddha]

One has to wonder why it's still in the manual, if that line of thinking is dated....do we understand why it's still there?

This is a touchy issue for everyone, so bear with me here.

regardless of our own individual takes on race and the role it plays in our lives, someone else is going to be offended/offensive about it. I feel the reason the information, and advice is still in the manual is because we still need the advice to keep ourselves aware of potential adversity regarding our decision to get married.

Think about it...the scriptures themselves, as well as the talks given in conference, are loaded with warnings of potential dangers we will face in our lives, regardless of how significant they may be for us individually.

There is constant warning of avoiding illegal drugs, alcohol, etc...yet none of that ever appealed to me in the first place...does that mean I get to ignore the advice, or that it's useless to me? Not at all. I still need to be aware of the potential danger.

Regarding marriage, having been married and now divorced, I know how tough it is to keep a marriage healthy these days. It takes work regardless of how much you love your spouse. The world has been attacking the institution of marriage for decades now, and race is simply one of the tactics used to drive wedges between people.

For most of us, I think I can say that race really doesn't matter when looking for someone to marry. That is as it should be, but that is not why the advice is in the manual. It's there to remind us that a multi-racial marriage will face attacks on that front. It's to prepare us for coming attacks. A white girl can easily be sealed to a black man in this church with no problems at all, but the attacks won't come from within the church, they'll come from everywhere else, and the couple need to be aware of that going into the marriage so they can face it together, united, and blessed by the Lord.

My ex-wife was Christian, and while we had countless discussions on religion, it was never a point of contention between us. At the same time, because of the many doctrinal differences between the LDS Church and mainstream Christianity, I feel our marriage wasn't as strong as it could have been. The difference didn't hurt directly, but it didn't help like it could have.

I'm not equating religious decisions with race, because one is chosen while the other is inherited from one's parents. As such, they are siginificantly different. At the same time, multi-racial couples will always need to be prepared to defend their choice. Not from within the LDS Church, but from close-minded thinkers that refuse to let love permeate their hearts. That's why the advice is still in the manual; to warn us of increased attacks from the adversary.

Satan will never stop attacking marriage, so any warnings that will help us keep our marriages strong should never be tossed aside as 'dated'. God will never stop warning us of potential dangers, and we would be wise to heed them when he gives them to us.

Edited March 31, 2010 by RipplecutBuddha

[Melissa569]

I'll second what others have said, I'm American (caucasian), but my husband is from India.

I spoke to my bishop a few times about some cultural differences we have, and also religious (my husband is a Catholic). And my bishop simply said,

"Well, that's why when people are young and single, we encourage dating inside your own culture and religion. Its got nothing to do with race, we are all humans. But a marriage is hard enough without extra differences to deal with."

While I agree and it sounds perfectly reasonable, sometimes you just can't help who you have that special bond with.