Unworthy

[bytor2112]

Sticking our collective heads in the sand while some youth go wayward may lead to eventual inactivity and worse. Putting our arms around someone and trying to be a friend and perhaps helping that young person to overcome their issue is appropriate. These boys are not strangers to me and have always responded well in the past when I have been very stern with them during my tenure as Scout Master and Deacon's Advisor......not that I am often stern or intend to be stern....with them.

Edited August 28, 2010 by bytor2112

[Milluw]

Depends on how you confront them. If theese boys actually are becoming inactive and distancing them further to the church, coming to them with a pointing finger about what is or isn't the right thing to do, would only make them distance further. Not that you need to pack it all up in pretty little box, but i would really consider what you are thinking about telling them are going to benefit either them or you. If it is them not being active and serious about it that troubles it, then being a good example and a great friend will do wonders in the longer run.

[NeuroTypical]

Not unless you hold some sort of position of authority or stewardship over the young man in question.

These boys are not strangers to me and have always responded well in the past when I have been very stern with them during my tenure as Scout Master and Deacon's Advisor......not that I am often stern or intend to be stern....with them.

Sounds like you fit the bill.

But consider what your reaction will be, if after this tender, warm, gentle addressing-the-issue you have in mind, is met with less-than-hoped-for results. Go into the situation prepared with what you will do if that happens.

LM

[Moksha]

Elder and Elders Quorum Presidency

and watch over the Church.

If the call to act is within you purview, then so is the call to not act. As the saying goes "discretion is the better part of valor". Let the discretion be with the Bishop and use the valor to withdraw from the field. Save yourself for another day.

[jayanna]

What would you do if you knew that some of the Aaron Priesthood was unworthy to bless and/or pass the Sacrament? Suppose you have informed the Bishop and he has interviewed these youth and they denied any wrong doing....BUT you are certain of it?

Do we have responsibility to confront these young men and ask them to not bless or pass the sacrament?[/QUOTE]

NO

Does it get any more stern than that? Do you think that to suddenly stop the most sacred activity that they can be a part of would keep them from going inactive? Are you really worried for their welfare, or are you simply looking for a means to justify venting your spleen about activities that you don't approve of? Patience and longsuffering are what's needed here.

How about sharing your testimony on the importance of the sacrament, and thanking them for providing that service for you.

Edited August 28, 2010 by jayanna

[Justice]

I'm with you bytor...

How about their parents? If I were a parent of one of these boys I would sure appreciate the heads up.

Maybe ask the boys if they've talked to their parents? Strongly suggest that they do, even that if they don't... you will.

How would that work in this case?

Remind them that lying is not what a Priesthood holder should do. They need to be more mature, and need to admit fault. That begins true repentance, and is the driver for us becoming a follower of Christ. I'm sure you can get somewhere with it.

If not, I'd talk to their parents.

Edited August 28, 2010 by Justice

[darrel]

And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. (Moroni 7:45).

Charity is the pure love of Christ.

Edited August 28, 2010 by darrel
punctuation

[MarginOfError]

As Elder's we are to watch over the church......right?

You've fulfilled your stewardship by informing the bishop of your concern. But judging whether an individual is worthy of exercising his priesthood office is in the stewardship of the bishop and the stake presidency. To confront these boys over the matter after it's already been taken up by the bishop would be outside your stewardship and, quite frankly, would constitute unrighteous dominion.

Now that you've done your part, the only thing left to say is that which Christ had to save of the publicans: "They shall have their reward."

I wish there was more we could do to reduce the internal turmoil, but doing so requires a change of attitude from you.

[Just_A_Guy]

I don't think it's your priesthood responsibility to say something; but nor do I think it's necessarily your responsibility to remain silent.

As Dr. Laura likes to say whenever she gets a "should I tell . . ." question:

"Everybody is free to talk to everybody".

D&C 42:88 would seem to bear this out.

In your situation, I'd say: Do what you feel you need to do. Just be sure you've contemplated any social fallout that may come from this, and are ready to live with it.

[Suzie]

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with you approaching the boys about this issue. However, unless the boys are doing something that is directly harming others (abusing, etc) in which case the Bishop and people involved should be informed immediately (along with authorities) then the only thing I would suggest is to encourage them to talk with the Bishop and their parents.

[bytor2112]

I don't see absolutely anything wrong with you approaching the boys about this issue. However, unless the boys are doing something that is directly harming others (abusing, etc) in which case the Bishop and people involved should be informed immediately (along with authorities) then the only thing I would suggest is to encourage them to talk with the Bishop and their parents.

I was planning on a double poke to the eyes, followed by a stomp on the big toe...then maybe a cream filled pie to the face.....nothing to injurious. :)

[Maya]

You cold ask that either you or the YM leaders would talk to the boys about how important it is to be worthy when dealing out the sacrament. You do not need to point to them any special guy but really ask them seriosly to do that. I might even ask the boy to site and talk with him in a corridore, or his parents. Sometimes these yougsters are in a terrible press from home and church as they are expected to deal out the sacrament it is difficult to decline. He needs to understand that it is more harmfull for him to deal it unworthy than to say that he dont want to deal it out today.

I know some people that have gone out of church as they have noticed that thise dealing the sacrament are not worty and YET they are allowed to do it. I got questionde... or the church was ... by my ex as he saw my hometeacher in a bar drinking something taht mistakenly looked like beer. He loved a drink that has no alcohol but looks liek beer and can also be bought in bars.... those negative sure have their eyes on us!

YM should understand that!

[Elgama]

Fact is you never know the full story,you don't know where the boy's testimony is, what their of accountability with the Lord is. However if they are doing something you feel their parents should know about, what you can do is give the boy concerned time to come clean before you go to their parents.

[MarginOfError]

I was planning on a double poke to the eyes, followed by a stomp on the big toe...then maybe a cream filled pie to the face.....nothing to injurious. :)

Okay, I've changed my mind. This, I approve of.

[GADBabaganoosh]

I was disgusted by it because i blatantly saw it. People I knew drank beer and partied the night before blessed the sacrament the next day. It was hypocritical, and part of the reason i went inactive for a long time. However, i learned a lot since then and its not my place to judge. I'll let God take care of it, if theres something i know, i'm only accountable to God, through my priesthood leaders. I'll worry about my own worthiness and hope i'm worthy to assist in ordinances.

[Justice]

That's noble, GAD, but if a person truly loved these boys, and were concerned and full of charity toward them, then they would do all in their power to help them see what they've done is wrong and to help lead them to repentance.

If a person responds out of anger or from a judgmental heart, it is wrong. But, to respond out of love and concern is never wrong, I believe. The truth is, we ARE our brother's keeper.

[jayanna]

we are supposed to shine a light, not point a finger

[skippy740]

That's noble, GAD, but if a person truly loved these boys, and were concerned and full of charity toward them, then they would do all in their power to help them see what they've done is wrong and to help lead them to repentance.

If a person responds out of anger or from a judgmental heart, it is wrong. But, to respond out of love and concern is never wrong, I believe. The truth is, we ARE our brother's keeper.

Moses 5:34

And the Lord said unto Cain: Where is Abel, thy brother? And he said: I know not. Am I my brother’s keeper?

In other words, was Cain Abel's secretary?

Just because the phrase made it into a hymn doesn't mean it has a scriptural connotation to it.

**************************

All that aside, being a member of the church means that we have a "behavioral code of conduct" that we follow. They're called covenants. We make and keep covenants at baptism, temple worship and the sacrament. Also, there is the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood.

But we all struggle with different things. Here's the good news: They are coming to church! Bytor, if you open your mouth to these boys and if they feel that you're picking on them... they might stop coming - and you'd have given them a reason to stop! Their parents may hear of it and THEY might stop coming - thinking that you would've overstepped the parental/priesthood leadership role.

Joseph Smith has said that "He teaches correct principles and let the people govern themselves." Be a teacher, not a lecturer. Show them who they ought to be, not just try to tell & lecture them.

The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for saints.

[mightynancy]

On one hand, I understand Bytor's concern. It boggles my mind why we often care so much about what color shirt an Aaronic Priesthood boy is wearing on Sunday, but not what he was doing Saturday night.

On the other hand, I think that informing the Bishop is enough. A boy's worthiness doesn't affect the ordinance for the rest of the congregation. I think it's the Bishop's responsibility to teach the boy (again) the problem of hypocrisy and the courage it takes to repent.

[Just_A_Guy]

Just because the phrase made it into a hymn doesn't mean it has a scriptural connotation to it.

True, though we are also under covenant to bear one another's burdens . . .

[Moksha]

I would worry that over aggressively pursuing this may lead to the teens falling away from the Church.

[Mute]

I would leave the entire matter alone.

[Daniel2020]

If you were their Scout Master and have the type of relationship that you can use to influence these boys to do good then there may be merit in discussing the situation with them. If not, leave things in the hands of the Bishop.

[GADBabaganoosh]

That's noble, GAD, but if a person truly loved these boys, and were concerned and full of charity toward them, then they would do all in their power to help them see what they've done is wrong and to help lead them to repentance.

If a person responds out of anger or from a judgmental heart, it is wrong. But, to respond out of love and concern is never wrong, I believe. The truth is, we ARE our brother's keeper.

At the time (when i was a teenager) i wasn't very active myself, and watching a poor example of my supposed "friends" didn't help. Thats who I saw up there on the table, thats why i saw them drinking the night before. We would hang out and they'd drink, I didn't partake, and I never really wanted to be at those parties, but because of where I lived, there simply just wasn't anything to do. There were many factors to why I went inactive. I was one of those boys i suppose. And I had a bishop reach out to me, and thats why i went on a mission and became active again.

[bytor2112]

Bytor, if you open your mouth to these boys and if they feel that you're picking on them... they might stop coming - and you'd have given them a reason to stop! Their parents may hear of it and THEY might stop coming - thinking that you would've overstepped the parental/priesthood leadership role.

I doubt that. They only come now because they are forced to come. I have known most of the youth since they were in primary and the boys in question have stayed at my home many times with my sons over the years and they have been to scout camp with me many times. They know how I am and I have always been straight with them. Tough at times and not so much at other times.

While I appreciate the concern.....sometimes they need a kick in the pants in order to get back on track. I have my favorite butt kicking shoes on and will be putting them to good use soon. If I didn't know them as well as I do....I wouldn't.