Would it do more damage to come clean?

[szorgalmasan]

Hi all. I am just looking for some friendly advice...

I was born into the LDS church, went on a mission, got married in the Temple etc. etc. However, I have (over a process of time) come to no longer believe in the Gospel. (Not the point of this post) The point is that, I have a wife and several children, and I don't know how to tell her, or even if I should. The church goes far back in each of our family histories and is culturally part of who we are. I am still actively going to church, and I have two callings that I am very dedicated to.

My question is, should I just keep quiet about the fact that I don't believe in any of this? I really don't want to upset my family, and I'm not one of those people that has some existential crisis every time I bear my testimony in class (I am a seminary teacher) even though I know I am just lying when I do so. I give talks, pay tithing, teach lessons etc, and just pretend that I believe it, however I do wish sometimes that I could just be frank with my family about my disbelief. Like I said, I just keep my mouth shut because I don't want to upset my wife, parents etc, and I don't mind my kids growing up "Mormon" because I think the church teaches good values.

Any thoughts?

[pam]

Perhaps it would help us to know exactly what you don't believe anymore? Just certain parts or the whole package?

[Jennarator]

This reminds me of the people, on my mission, that wouldn't get baptized because Catholisism was part of their family history.

If it were me, I would confide in the bishop. I see nothing wrong with most of what you are saying, however I am a little concerned about teaching high school age kids when you don't have the testimony. I would hate to see anyone lying.

I'm sure you know the general idea of how to gain or re-gain a testimony, no need to lecture you. The trick is to want to re-gain it (or gain it if you don't think you ever had one.) That could take some time.

So glad you know the good values taught and you are still going and allowing the children to go.

Thoughts and prayers with you!

Edited August 4, 2011 by Jennarator

[szorgalmasan]

Jennarator,

I remember people like that on my mission too, but never thought of myself in the same category. Thanks for the insight.

The fear that I have about talking to my bishop (Branch Pres. in my case) is that if I do, then even though he can't announce what I tell him to the congregation, he would probably take away my callings, and the cat would pretty much be out of the bag anyhow. If you are a little disturbed about my teaching seminary, then think how he would feel. It's not like I can assure people that "hey, I know the doctrines, and I never stray from the official lesson manual and the scriptures (unlike some of the seminary teachers that I had growing up:)...just think of it like a science teacher that has to teach evolution even though they don't believe it...that doesn't mean that they can't properly present the materiel." I just don't see how I could discuss this with him without everyone finding out, and for my part I don't care, however the predicament lies in how much my family would care. I remember how stressed out my parents were when my sister went inactive, and as for my wife...well how would you feel if your spouse that you have a temple marriage with told you that they didn't believe anymore. I don't want to put anyone through that, but I wonder sometimes if it is wrong to just keep pretending too.

As far as my testimony, yes I did have one at one time, but I don't really care to have one again.

Pam,

I don't believe any of it if that helps.

[Jenamarie]

Are you willing to spend the rest of your life living a lie? Is that really any worse than "letting the cat out of the bag"?

ETA: And what if someone asks you, or you let it slip, that you don't believe, and word gets back to your wife. How much more would it hurt her to hear from someone other than you that you've been living a lie?

[szorgalmasan]

Jenamarie,

You hit the nail on the head as far as my question goes. Up to this point my thought continues to be that if it ruins my marriage, my relationship with my children, and my ability to associate with people from church without being the "guy that went apostate," then yes, letting the cat out of the bag would be worse. That is kind of where my head is at right now.

As far as letting it slip...that is a good question and point. I really don't foresee that happening, but who knows. Actually, if someone told my wife that I didn't have a testimony I would probably tell her they misunderstood me...just being honest here...it's easy to be honest when you are anonymous and talking to people that you will never meet in real life.

Edited August 4, 2011 by szorgalmasan

[slamjet]

So, if you've come to the understanding that there is nothing to believe in this Church, then why are you cheating the kids out of spiritual experiences when they are taught by a (pardon the harshness) hypocrite? Why is it you give the parents no choice on who should teach their children? Someone who is strong in the Gospel, or (harshness again) someone who is two seconds from abandoning it? What you forgot from your mission is the spiritual aspect of the Gospel. You are shortchanging the students of that. Intellectual arguments will not suffice in this day and age.

As far as your testimony goes, you no longer want one because you find the Church and the Gospel too confining and authoritative. You want to do what you want, when you want to and without someone telling you that it's wrong. I feel for you because I already went down that route. I substituted the world for the Gospel. What did it get me, well, a whole lot of heartache. I literally stood in my apartment and said that I don't need the Church and Christ anymore. It's my life, I'll do it my way. And as is the case with everyone who goes that route, I lost. And I lost big.

So don't run around trying to keep up appearances. Tell your wife and let her choose if she wants to continue to be married to a man who thinks her beliefs are no longer relevant. Tell the Bishop and let them decide whether their youth are worthy of someone teaching them like the Gospel is a science experiment. Go out there and live life the way you want to. Because I can assure you of two things: you will end up miserable and confused, and you will be crawling back because you will have lost everything that should have been important to you.

[Jennarator]

I do think there will be some kind of "backlash" that will happen if you tell. Sorry I know that is a harsh word but I can't think of another right now.

I don't worry about you teaching as much as the "bearing of testimony" being the lie. Young people are working on a tesimony for themselves and don't need "just the facts or information" to do that. I know I could tell what teachers in church just said the words and what ones knew it.

Don't get me wrong, I feel a loss as to what to do in yor situation. I just wouldn't recommend the teaching any longer.

btw: I know exactly what it feels like when my spouse that i married in the temple tells you he doesn't believe it.......and I know a whole lot more pain. I would have stayed with him if he felt like you do. Honestly. Not saying your wife would or to even tell her. You will have to decide that, but if it were me, I would want to know.

The bishop might take your callings, or he might give you a non-teaching one like do the ward program each week or somthing. I doubt he would need to tell your wife or anyone. People stuggle all the time. I know not that it makes it easy.

Also you never know, the desire to re-gain that testimony might come back.....someday....

[NeuroTypical]

Hey szorgalmasan,

I can't really advise you. But at least I can commend you for placing your family high on your list of priorities, and trying not to impact them negatively.

Living a lie or coming clean or something in between? Difficult position, difficult choices. Choosing either has plusses and minuses and risk.

For what it's worth - there is the occasional nonmember who holds a calling. An understanding bishop who is as concerned about your family as much as you are, could react in ways that will bless your family and keep it strong. Maybe you consider telling your bishop, and counseling with him about how to go about living life? That could remove part of the burden you carry of pretending to be something you're not.

We once had a lady member in our ward, who was a bit more than inactive - she had actually become an ordained pastor in another church. Our Bishop didn't really take any action at all, other than to express love for her, and ask her if she really wanted to remain on the rolls of the church.

[pam]

One of the qualifications to be a seminary teacher, however, is to be worthy to hold a temple recommend. Coming out of the closet per se might knock that one out.

[ruthiechan]

If you do not believe in the Gospel anymore then why are you "very dedicated to" your two callings?

I agree that you should talk to her Bishop the way you are talking to us about this issue. It'll speak volumes to your Bishop that you are first and foremost concerned about your family.

[MorningStar]

Speaking as someone whose dad left the church, I would be really mad if he lied and said he believed. We all knew he didn't enjoy being there, so when he finally blurted it out, it was almost a relief for my mom. Lies ruin families. It will be very hard for them to hear that you don't believe, but I believe lying is more damaging.

[Blocky]

My husband is a member but doesn't believe in the church. He's not sure if there's a God at all. As very hard as it has been to accept this and respect his agency, I'm glad he doens't lie about it. I would LOVE for him to still come to church and participate in scripture reading and gospel theme family home evenings, though. I have a brother in law who is technically a memeber of the church but had never really identified with it or believed in it, he mostly got baptized because his father wanted him to. He still comes to church though because he recognized that it encourages one to be their best, to be a good person, and if there is a God, he's not sure if there is, but if there is, it's good to think and ponder on those things, no matter where you're coming from.

I do agree that there may be a very large 'backlash' from your wife if you tell her these things. There might not be. As painful as it might be for her, perhaps she'll do as I did and come to respect and understand agency and our relationships better. I think it would be wonderful if you could continue to attend church. I would love to have my husband there, even if just to feel like he's supporting something I believe in. I'm very happy that he supports me teaching the kids about the gospel, too.

[FunkyTown]

Pam,

I don't believe any of it if that helps.

So you don't believe in God? You don't believe that a man named Joseph Smith existed at all? You don't believe that a guy named David once ruled a kingdom in the middle east?

You have been frank, so I'm going to be frank with you: If you do not believe, you are teaching lies. That makes you a liar.

You are a liar to the ones you love, proving you don't trust them.

You are a liar to the children you teach, proving that you don't deserve them.

You are a liar to all your friends, proving that they aren't really your friends.

You are more completely alone than almost any other human being, because you do not trust anyone outside yourself with who you really are.

Now that we've dealt with that, it's time to think more carefully on the future:

You do not want to regain a testimony of the gospel. You might want to think about why.

If there were absolute truth to the gospel and you don't want to regain a testimony, then you're just being obstinate and foolish.

If you think it's false and intellectually want to know the truth, then you need to find out why you think it's false and journey through the evidence. C.S. Lewis did that.

If there's something in you that is preventing you from knowing why you want to have a testimony(And I'm not saying there is - No need to tell us), then you need to frankly look at yourself and say "If I honestly believed, I'd have to confess adultery to the bishop and my wife. That's too hard, so I'm choosing disbelief."(Or insert whatever difficulty you're having.)

Regardless, when you have come to the end of your road and you've decided you don't believe, you cannot lie to your wife, children and the people who depend on you for teaching.

[Gwen]

Why can't you mix the two options? If what you are saying is accurate you are not worthy to hold a temple recommend, so that becomes an issue with your calling and needing to talk to the bishop.

I say don't tell your kids, keep going, keep being involved, if that lifestyle makes you happy then do it. But you should also give up particular callings, you can still do the "small stuff".

I think after you have a plan with the branch pres on how you fit into the church then you need to talk to your wife. Let her know you aren't turning your life upsidedown. You are happy living the church lifestyle, serving, teaching your children. She needs to know the weight of sharing testimony with your children is on her and that she shouldn't press you to give the kids blessings and such.

Yes being in a branch complicates this. If your branch is anything like mine no one will fuss or gossip about it. I have struggled before and went from being rotated between the president of several auxilleries to being music coordinator (which was actually very good for me). Everyone needs a break sometimes when you carry so much weight, that's all anyone assumed was going on.

If I were in your wife's shoes I would not divorce you over this. Life would go on as usual, good. The kids don't need to know. If your love for her has not changed then even better. I would look at it from the doctrine of "God can bring anything to our rememberance".... if you keep going and living it then one day, some way, you will remember and have a testimony again. Wouldn't be easy but there is hope for her in that.

But maybe I'd be overly sympathetic because I've been the one on the questioning side before. I was terrified to tell the branch pres. Usually there are only a handful of ppl they can depend on and how would he take it knowing one of them was struggling? Yes he insisted discussing particular things before he would issue my recommend but it's been a good thing.

As for being a liar..... that's a fine line. You need to protect your children, sometimes we do that by witholding information. In other threads the steps for AA have been discussed before, one of them is to make restitution or apologize to those you have hurt.... with the qualification of doing no harm. If you would hurt the person more by making contact than your apology could help then you are not to make contact. I think the "first do no harm" rule is a good one to always remember.

Consider how it will help your kids to tell them right now? How will it harm them? Is it worth it? You are not a liar if you are protecting them. Now if they get old enough to figure it out and ask about it then you tell the truth. If they themselves are one day questioning then you share, it may be exactly what they need to hear. If you pretend it's not true then you are a liar, if you choose not to volunteer the information for their benefit then I wouldn't call you a liar. If you get up every month in testimony meeting and say you know the church is true etc then you are a liar. You don't have to get up to be there. Only you know if you are crossing the line of being a liar.

[Guest Sachi001]

I'm sorry but I'm dubious of you. I cannot believe that you would be holding 2 callings, paying your tithes etc.. while not believing in the gospel. It sounds like your not being honest here either. If your not honest in your dealings with your fellow men (wife, family, church members). Why should I believe you now.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Sachi001

[NeuroTypical]

I'd just like to rmind folks of a few site rules:

3. Personal attacks, name calling, flaming, and judgments against other members will not be tolerated.

4. No bickering and nit-picking toward others. Realize that sometimes it is very difficult to be able to express how one feels through written words. Please be courteous and ask for a further explanation, rather then trying to attack and find holes in someone else's post.

[szorgalmasan]

Thanks Gwen for your very relevant and insightful answer. I really do appreciate those of you who have taken the time to answer the question that I posted. I have been given a lot to think about.

Sachi001, if you think that I am not being honest they why would you take the time to post on my thread? I feel that I have more than explained the reasons for my continuing to attend church as an active member even though I don't have a testimony. You have brought nothing whatsoever to the conversation, and, frankly, I don't appreciate you treating my serious question with an answer that is akin to posting "FAKE" on youtube videos just so that you can have the satisfaction showing people how wise you possibly are.

Edited August 5, 2011 by szorgalmasan

[applepansy]

szorgalmasan,

What changed for you? What exactly don't you believe?

Satan wants nothing more than for a faithful member to "not believe anymore." He's succeeded with you. Teaching children to feel the spirit is impossible when you're not feeling it. What started you on this path? I'm not sure you want to "not believe" when you're unwilling to change how you live.

Doubts about the gospel come from Satan. Have you tried to doubt your doubts?

[szorgalmasan]

Applepansy, while I truly do appreciate your question, it might not be relevant here. I posted under the Marriage and relationship advice because It has to do with my particular situation and whether or not it would be more beneficial to reveal my true feelings and risk my current lifestyle, or continue to live the way that I am, but just secretly not believe.

I understand why you and others are curious about how I became an unbeliever, however that might be better explored in a more relevant thread.

[Blocky]

I understand why you and others are curious about how I became an unbeliever, however that might be better explored in a more relevant thread.

When I first read this thread I laughed to myself a little and knew that some would try to convince you of the errors of your ways, and perhaps try to nudge you back towards believing. You can't blame us too much, we're Mormon, that's what we do:P

[MorningStar]

I think lying to your kids is a bad idea. If I had shared spiritual experiences with my dad thinking he felt the same way and it turned out he was lying to me the whole time, I would feel violated.

[Backroads]

My husband and I once had a conversation about what would cause us to divorce one another. Did you and your wife ever have such a conversation? In our case, we discovered that me leaving the Church might possibly cause him to divorce me but vice versa him leaving would not be a deal-breaker for me.

From what you know of your wife, would you coming clean about all this be a deal-breaker for her?

I ask this because I would rather have my spouse be honest with me. Don't get me wrong: I'm thrilled with loved ones who are devoted to the Church and spiritual and yadda yadda yadda. However, I'm only thrilled when I sense it's sincere. If they're not sincere, why do they even bother? Can't they find some other spiritual/moral path in which they're actually interested? I'm not going to think any less of them.

I can see your conundrum here, but I will express my views: Cultural/New Order/whatever you want to call them Mormons really bug me. For the reason I stated above. If you really don't believe in it, why are you pretending?

Granted, when we get right down to it, most Mormons probably don't agree on every little thing. I've gleaned from my own studies and ponderings that there is surprisingly little official doctrine necessary for considering oneself a Mormon and I figure people have more wiggle room than they think. I figure: believe what is necessary, searchponderpray on the rest, and come to your own conclusion. If said conclusion is that you really aren't a Mormon, don't pretend to be one. It's hyprocritical. I hate people that are false.

I would rather have someone [respectfully] tell me they don't believe in the gospel than pretend to do so. I would be hurt if I found out my husband had been lying to me for years even if he had done so to be nice.

Now I'm getting the impression that you have nothing but good feelings toward the Church and its members. That's great. But that doesn't mean you have to be a full-fledged-temple-recommend-holding member. I support you serving in callings. I support you in letting your kids believe as they choose. Good-hearted people like to serve. But I have trouble supporting you as an instructor of the gospel.

I've seen some of those New Order Mormon boards. Basically, people sit around and talk about how much they love their family but how they think they're idiots for believing the way they do. I don't find those to be healthy relationships. It's easy enough to love your family, but if you can't respect them or give them the benefit of the doubt or trust they have a legitimate reaon for believing the way they do, there's a problem.

I also would like to suggest that if your testimony is the only make-or-break in your marriage, there's a problem. You should be connected in other ways.

I find it wonderful you want to support your family in the Church--and you should. Respectfully. But there are countless ways you can do so without pretending to be a Mormon.

Like Morningstar said, it's kind of a violation to make up spiritual experiences. If I found out someone had made one up, I would feel like they were mocking my beliefs.

[Gwen]

I think we need to be very careful what we call lying to our kids. Just because I hold back information from them does not mean I'm lying.

For example, my mom grew up very abused. As a child I knew nothing about it. Did she lie to me? She purposly didn't tell me. When I was in middle school (she was taking a writing therapy class) I found a poem she wrote. It was intense and powerful, sad. I asked her about it. She didn't lie to me. That is when she told me that the writint class was more than for fun. She told me about some of the abuse she endured. Over time she opened up more and more about it. I didn't find out the fullest extent of it until after my 3rd son was born, I was 23 or 24.... Never once did I feel lied to. Had she told me when I was very young it would have scared me, I wouldn't have been able to understand.

I have not told my children about my struggles. I didn't say as many family prayers when I was having the hardest time. They probably noticed, had they asked I would have just said "mommy is having a hard time right now". It does not help them to throw them into the deep end of your emotional struggles.

By all means tell the kids.... at the right time, in the right way, in the right amounts. Witholding information from children isn't a bad thing and it's not lying.

The wife on the other hand needs to be in the loop. Do that in the right way and as compassionately as possible. This is a personal (and therefore marriage) issue, not a family (child) issue.

[Backroads]

The wife on the other hand needs to be in the loop. Do that in the right way and as compassionately as possible. This is a personal (and therefore marriage) issue, not a family (child) issue.

Indeed. You and your wife are a couple that should be devoted to each other. No place for secrets like this.