Temple vs. Civil Marriage

[moocow]

My boyfriend and I have committed fornication and are not worthy for the temple. I want to just get married civilly and then get sealed when we're both worthy and ready. He wants to just get sealed and repent later???? Has anyone dealt with these same issues before? I know a lot of people who have also committed fornication and they hide it to save face. I'm not willing to do that. I still go to church and want to be better. What do you think of people who marry civilly. Obviously people know why...

[Guest mormonmusic]

I would get married civilly. Then enjoy unbridled sex for as long as necessary for your Bishop to conclude you are repentent of your previous fornication, and then with clean conscience, get married in the temple. Getting married in the temple whiel not worthy, and repenting later is not right. You will feel badly about your temple marriage, and it can be grounds for Church discipline if you eventually confess that you did it -- as you may well do.

Don't touch the "temple wedding now, repent later" option with a ten-foot pole.

[Suzie]

Not sure why you mean by "obviously people know why". I have traveled quite a lot and it's very common in some countries to get married civilly first before going to the temple. The number one reason not only being a legal requirement but also the fact they cannot afford the temple trip and it will take them a while to save money.

[moocow]

yeah... i'm surrounded by mormons where I'm at.

[Dravin]

I'm not willing to do that.

I applaud your integrity. Honestly, the behavior of your boyfriend would make me pause. Not only because of the religious implications but the general integrity implications (he'd have to bald face lie to two priesthood leaders to get his recommend, and he's suggesting you do as well).

What do you think of people who marry civilly.

That's kinda an open ended question. I'll be honest, I don't have the energy to invest on thinking much about the subject. If someone tells me they got married civilly it's just one of those things to file away in the "random things people have told me about themselves" folder in my brain.

[skippy740]

I'm going to be bold and blunt. (I warned you!) :)

This isn't about civil vs temple marriage. This is about integrity, honesty and honoring covenants... and the kind of man you are considering marrying (and already trying to conceive children with).

Obtaining a temple recommend assumes that you are following and living up to the covenants you make there. At the minimum, you are following and honoring your baptismal covenants.

The fact that you are violating yourselves against the covenants you have made... would be made worse in the eyes of the Lord by entering into His House unworthily.

He is also showing that he is spineless and has no backbone. What? Yep. He needs to show that he is honoring the House of the Lord by NOT attending when he is unworthy to attend.

This idea of "let's do this now and we'll repent later"... mocks God and the Atonement. But this is also the result of the same line of thinking that having pre-marital relations isn't a big deal and so "let's do this now and we'll repent later".

What if you conceived a child? Would he encourage the unthinkable saying "let's do this now and we'll repent later"? After all, he's willing to attend the temple unworthily to hide his sin. There are some sins that you cannot repent for in this life... particularly if you are already under covenants.

To what end will he take to gratify his pride and ego, and hide his sins from everyone else?

(I told you I was going to be bold and blunt.)

[Vort]

Go with your gut, and you will rarely go wrong. What do others think about those who marry civilly? Probably they don't think much about it at all. Casual friends will not know where you married, good friends will mind their own business, and family and intimate friends will know anyway. So don't worry about it.

By your own free admission, you're not worthy to go to the temple, so don't. And don't let your boyfriend talk you into going. If your boyfriend does not have the integrity to stay out of the temple when he's fornicating, then I have to agree with skippy that you may want to rethink how he is, and I would add that you may want to rethink your commitment to someone who is only too willing to mock the sacred.

[rameumptom]

If your boyfriend is willing to lie to his bishop to get into the temple, do you really think he will "repent later"? To repent later would mean your boyfriend and you would end up losing your temple blessings, simply because you lied to get into the temple in the first place. Chances are, both would be disfellowshipped, and would lose the privileges of the temple and everything else for at least a year.

Better to marry civilly, deal with your sins now, and be sealed later and maintaining your integrity with the Bishop and Church.

[Jennarator]

Personally, I have learned to look at those that get married civilly as honest people that want to get their lives on track. (Unless they are non-members or less active. Then I just look at it as they got married, I don't think sealed or civil.)

I also realize there are lots reasons that they chose civil, first. So instead of trying to figure out what reason it was, I just look at the happy union and remembedr mine and how happy I am, and how happy I hope they are.

To me tryting to figure out why they got married civilly is like trying to figure out why they choose lillies to put in the center pieces, its something that matters to them, not me.

I wish you happiness. :)

[ReynaRosa]

Moocow? if you don't mind me asking, how do you feel about civil marriage knowing the truth? can you live a lie? it's your life decision not your boyfriend's.

[annewandering]

People get civil marriages for a lot of reasons. I know one couple that had a civil marriage because they knew they were not strong enough to resist any longer and acted to prevent that. They did go to the temple a year later. You never know so its not our place to assume.

Your bf has a problem. Maybe its just immaturity but you do need to think hard about if this is a person you want to spend eternity with even if he is fun now.

[RMGuy]

Short answer,

You are married either way.

Slightly longer answer....See above.

-RM

[Backroads]

I don't think I have ever thought less of a couple who has a civil marriage first. Why? I don't know the details and reasoning and it's none of my business. The civil marriage could be due to anything. Perhaps they wanted to they wanted to include family. Perhaps a temple wedding just isn't that big of a deal to them at this time. Perhaps they are unworthy and wanted to get married as they worked on repentence.

A decent person is not going to dwell on unknown reasons.

I, like others, am concerned your boyfriend prefers to repent later. This suggests to me he just isn't all that interested in his covenents or spirituality. Which I suppose is fine for him, but he should own up to it and stop being a hypocrite. If he's not interested in temple covenents, he shouldn't bother with them. No one is forcing him to marry in the temple. Same goes for you.

I think this boils down to something else. You guys are a couple. You need to make a decision together and you need to both be okay with it. Are you okay with lying to get to the temple? Are you okay with your boyfriend telling you to lie? Are you even fully okay with the concept of a temple marriage whenever and if ever it happens? Are you okay with a civil marriage now? Would you prefer to wait? Same questions apply to your boyfriend. Also, he is going to be bitter if you don't lie and are you going to be bitter if you do or don't?

[AGStacker]

My boyfriend and I have committed fornication and are not worthy for the temple. I want to just get married civilly and then get sealed when we're both worthy and ready. He wants to just get sealed and repent later???? Has anyone dealt with these same issues before? I know a lot of people who have also committed fornication and they hide it to save face. I'm not willing to do that. I still go to church and want to be better. What do you think of people who marry civilly. Obviously people know why...

When God cleanses America it will start at His own house. Don't enter the Temple unworthily. Who cares what members think.

[Blackmarch]

My boyfriend and I have committed fornication and are not worthy for the temple. I want to just get married civilly and then get sealed when we're both worthy and ready. He wants to just get sealed and repent later???? Has anyone dealt with these same issues before? I know a lot of people who have also committed fornication and they hide it to save face. I'm not willing to do that. I still go to church and want to be better. What do you think of people who marry civilly. Obviously people know why...

Yes do a civil marriage even tho there are individuals that think that is some sort of failure for not getting sealed in the temple at the same time you get married (nothing wrong with it)... thats their problem not yours. Yours is that you are in a sinful situation and you need to change that situation asap- if civil marriage is what will let you and your boyfirend remain together and take you out of commiting sin then thats the path you need to follow. About the only other alternative is your going to have to cool your relationship and not be together where and when you can be tempted.

Do what is right let the consequences follow. I'd lay down the line say "hey if youre serious about this then this is what we do or we break up. NO ifs ands or buts"

PS if he's going to procrastinate now, hes going to procrastinate later.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Blackmarch

[Blocky]

PS if he's going to procrastinate now, hes going to procrastinate later.

It is a valid point that if you get married civilly first in this case that you give up being in control of if and when you get married in the temple. It will depend on him, too. I got married civilly because of issues with premarital sex. 8 years later, we are still not married in the temple, my husband has fallen away from the church and teaching our children the gospel lies solely on my shoulders.

My main comfort in the situation is that I have repented of those sins and getting married civilly was part of that process.

I don't bring this up to encourage you to lie. If you did that, you'd be doing what your boyfriend is suggesting, sinning now and repenting later. That really doesn't work because to repent is more than just being sorry or embarrassed or admitting you did something wrong.

[JudoMinja]

This is a time where you need to slow things down and think through things carefully. You don't want to rush into a commitment just because you've messed up. You especially don't want to hurry to the temple when you are unworthy to enter it. There is no "get sealed now and repent later". You've already sinned, and you want to add another sin on top of it?! Just to "save face"?!

Forget what others may think of you. What matters is your standing with God. You are considering entering the Lord's House. Are you worthy? NO! And you know you are not worthy- that is why your boyfriend's idea of getting sealed now and THEN going to the bishop is rubbing you the wrong way. This is extremely serious- I would say even MORE serious than the fornication. If you have sinned, it makes the situation so, so much worse to try and take upon yourself God's blessings that you know you are not worthy of having! The sealing will mean nothing in God's eyes if you go through it unworthily.

I went to highschool with a young man whose father was a member of the bishopric. I witnessed this young man smoking a cigarette with his friends at the edge of the school grounds. I made no comment about it, figuring it was none of my business and not my place to get involved. However, that Sunday I saw this young man sitting in the front ready to bless the sacrament. I became concerned and uncomfortable and whispered to my father what I had seen at school and asked if I should do something about it. My father had a note passed up to the bishop, and this young man was asked to sit down. After the sacrament meeting, his father spoke with me about what I'd witnessed and said he would discuss it with his son.

Why was I uncomfortable about this young man passing the sacrament? Because he wasn't worthy. He had committed a sin that made him unworthy of practicing the sacred priesthood power of blessing the sacrament. If I had said nothing and he had followed through with that blessing, it would not have mattered to me or anyone else who partook of the sacrament. It would matter to that young man who unworthily officiated the blessing, as it would have exacerbated his sin.

You are uncomfortable with the idea of getting sealed in the temple right now for this very same reason. It is wrong. It is a mockery of God's power and blessings, and will only make the repentance process harder when/if you finally commit to starting it. Take care of your repentance now, and if your boyfriend is unwilling to follow through, maybe you need to rethink your relationship with him.

[Vort]

I went to highschool with a young man whose father was a member of the bishopric. I witnessed this young man smoking a cigarette with his friends at the edge of the school grounds. I made no comment about it, figuring it was none of my business and not my place to get involved. However, that Sunday I saw this young man sitting in the front ready to bless the sacrament. I became concerned and uncomfortable and whispered to my father what I had seen at school and asked if I should do something about it. My father had a note passed up to the bishop, and this young man was asked to sit down. After the sacrament meeting, his father spoke with me about what I'd witnessed and said he would discuss it with his son.

This reminds me of a painful mission experience. One good brother confided in me that he was having trouble with smoking. The next day, a Sunday, he was called by the district president to a leadership position. A callow 20-year-old, I didn't know what to do. Finally, I told the district president that he should talk with this brother about worthiness and the Word of Wisdom. The result was that the calling was unceremoniously withdrawn. I have felt bad all my life at how the district president handled it, and felt like I had betrayed a confidence. If I had it to do over, I think I would not say anything. But that's easy to say 28 years after the fact.

[Backroads]

This reminds me of a painful mission experience. One good brother confided in me that he was having trouble with smoking. The next day, a Sunday, he was called by the district president to a leadership position. A callow 20-year-old, I didn't know what to do. Finally, I told the district president that he should talk with this brother about worthiness and the Word of Wisdom. The result was that the calling was unceremoniously withdrawn. I have felt bad all my life at how the district president handled it, and felt like I had betrayed a confidence. If I had it to do over, I think I would not say anything. But that's easy to say 28 years after the fact.

It does make one think.

I think we can all agree that the fact is that smoking is against the WoW and that WoW issues can be grounds for, shall we say, changes in church callings.

But at the same time, I do think there can be something said for effort. If this good brother (for I do trust you that he was indeed a good brother) is confessing he is struggling with an issue he probably knows it is wrong and is probably working on it. No, that does not make it okay to fail to mention that little detail in an interview, but at least on some level he's trying.

I do believe worthiness is crucial, but Vort's story makes me wonder if it's always our place to point out worthiness issues.

[HEthePrimate]

My boyfriend and I have committed fornication and are not worthy for the temple. I want to just get married civilly and then get sealed when we're both worthy and ready. He wants to just get sealed and repent later???? Has anyone dealt with these same issues before? I know a lot of people who have also committed fornication and they hide it to save face. I'm not willing to do that. I still go to church and want to be better. What do you think of people who marry civilly. Obviously people know why...

Just for the record, fornication is not the only reason people get married outside of the temple. So no, people don't obviously know why (unless you told them, of course).

It seems to me you have four options:

(1) Don't get married at all.

(2) Get married in a civil ceremony.

(3) Get married in the temple right away, which would involve lying during your interview.

(4) Wait, repent, and get married in the temple later.

Someone in my family committed fornication and got pregnant. They chose to get married civilly, and sealed later, at which time their child was also sealed to them. I'm glad they both took responsibility, and chose to raise their child in a two-parent home.

If you're not pregnant, that makes things a little easier. There'll still be challenges, but don't panic. Discuss it with your boyfriend, and make sure that whatever decision you come to is what you both want, or at least can honestly live with.

Good luck.

[Spartan117]

I know a couple who fornicated the night before their sealing and decided to keep it to themselves and be sealed anyway. A year later, the guilt got the best of them and they went to the Bishop to repent. They were disfellowshipped. They worked their way back into the church, and now all is well.

Don't go into the temple if you know you are unworthy. God will not be mocked.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Spartan117
disfellow'd, not excomm'd.

[Backroads]

I know a couple who fornicated the night before their sealing and decided to keep it to themselves and be sealed anyway. A year later, the guilt got the best of them and they went to the Bishop to repent. They were excommunicated. They worked their way back into the church, and now all is well.

Don't go into the temple if you know you are unworthy. God will not be mocked.

While I'm glad this story has a happy ending, it's a prime example of why you must be honest. Karma is a bugger and eventually things will catch up with you. I theorize the couple in Spartan's story were more concerned with the initial shame and awkwardness of cancelling the sealing the day of. Oh, how disappointed and shocked and horrified everyone would be! better save face. Well, apparently everything came to light anyway, with that nasty excommunication slapped on top.

[Guest lightningbug]

.....

Edited December 5, 2011 by lightningbug

[Guest mormonmusic]

Get married civilly. Tell all the busy bodies its none of their business why. Enjoy the physical relationship, and if the marriage is good, and something you want for eternity, then get sealed when worthy. Look at it as a blessing in disguise.

Don't sacrifice your integrity by going to the temple on the pretense of worthiness.

And remember this -- after repentence for your friskyness before marriage, and eventual marriage in the temple, the blessings you enjoy will be the same as someone who is married in the temple, without the up-front risks.

Also, remember that in 5,10 or 15 years very few people will even remember or care that you went civil first. The eternal marriage, entered into with integrity, will be what goes down in the eternal history books that really matter.

[Vort]

And remember this -- after repentence for your friskyness before marriage, and eventual marriage in the temple, the blessings you enjoy will be the same as someone who is married in the temple, without the up-front risks.

I pretty much agreed with you until this point. Suggesting that marrying outside the temple, especially due to fornication, is some sort of risk avoidance procedure strikes me as the very opposite of what we are taught. There is safety in making and keeping covenants. All things being equal, marrying for time only is always a worse alternative than marrying worthily in the temple. The only possible exception might be people already sealed to other (deceased) spouses.

I could agree that a time-only marriage might be the best alternative available, certainly better than continuing to fornicate. But to suggest that a time-only marriage somehow avoids "the up-front risks" of eternal marriage seems not merely a short-sighted attitude, but a dangerous one.