Downton Abbey, anyone?

[applepansy]

Love Downton Abby.

We watched the first season on Netflix and haven't been able to keep up on PBS. I guess we'll watch it when it comes out on Netflix.

[ADoyle90815]

While Lord Grantham was rather blase about the event, or rather how upset James was over it, I would say that Alfred and James were most certainly disturbed and disgusted by Thomas' behavior. So I'd say three at a minimum, you can see implied disgust from others. You won't hear them singing to themselves, "Thomas kissed a boy and he liked it."

The other thing that was shown was that homosexuality was against the law at the time, which is why threats of reporting the incident to the police were taken seriously. Even if people might have been sympathetic to Thomas as Bates was, it didn't mean they accepted his homosexual tendencies, they probably felt he could learn to control his urges better, as he had done in the past.

[carlimac]

Also, did anyone else find there was a rather modern understanding of homosexuality as something that Thomas didn't choose? It may be that it isn't an anachronism but it certainly felt like one."

I kept thinking the acceptance and the statement by more than one character that "he can't help it" seemed too modern a sentiment for that time period, and especially the high culture and almost prudish attitude of Downton. It seemed too Hollywood and not authentic. It seemed ironic that they couldn't put up with an ex-prostitute cooking for Mrs. Crawley but they were all (except Carson) sort of like..."oh well, nevermind Thomas" about homosexuality.

I have to admit I was disappointed by some aspects of that episode. I only got around to watching it last night so I'm slower to join the current discussion. In fact after accidently seeing a spoiler earlier in this thread I decided not to even read the posts till after I was at least caught up with the current episode. And if that spoiler meant what I thought it did, how can the show even go on another season? What's the point? How could they be so heartless?

[beefche]

carlimac, let's wait until after Sunday's episode to talk about that. I can let you know the reason behind it after it airs. I don't want to spoil it for others. That post was removed since it did contain a major spoiler.

[carlimac]

carlimac, let's wait until after Sunday's episode to talk about that. I can let you know the reason behind it after it airs. I don't want to spoil it for others. That post was removed since it did contain a major spoiler.

I wasn't expecting anyone to discuss it. I'm just expressing outrage. I'm 'fraid it's going to ruin my week.

Oh wait...this is just fiction, not real life.

[beefche]

Oh my goodness. I knew it was coming, but wasn't quite prepared for that detailed scene. I hate that the seasons are so short. I just want to know how the family is doing.

And don't tell me this is fiction. They are real! It's real life! At least, I cry real tears....

[dahlia]

Wow! I don't want to write spoilers since I guess the show is still on in the west coast, but just wow.

I will say that I loved the red outfit Mary wore when she got off of the train. Fantastic.

So, I have a question that came up. My son was over and watched about a half hour of the show. He proceeded to go waaaay off on a political rant (I don't know where he gets it from) that the people who watch this show really wish life was like this - especially whites who feel a loss of their authority in the modern world. He suggested that poor whites wished they had Downton money and better off or educated whites secretly wished they could exert control of all types - behavior, religion, jobs, etc., over the lower classes because they really know how the world should be run and are secretly upset they were born in the wrong era.

We had quite the discussion. : ) I'm on two boards that discus Downton and the feeling I get is an appreciation for the costumes and setting, but an immediate aversion to the classism, chauvinism, homophobia, religious bigotry shown on the show. I just don't get the feeling from comments that people really want to return to that time period.

What are thoughts about why people watch the show? I can't believe I'm saying this, but not everything is political. Sometimes a good soap opera with fancy dresses is just a soap opera in fancy dress.

[carlimac]

Wait. no spoilers! just starting here.

[pam]

I guess you had better not come to this thread then. :)

[beefche]

For me, I'm obsessed with period dramas. Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, North and South, Wives and Daughters, and on and on. I love anything in costume with a British accent.

I certainly don't want to go back to that time period. I like my indoor plumbing, internet, pizza and pajama pants. I have no desire to be in authority over anyone (except my own children). And I have always said that I do not want to be wealthy--too much temptation involved with money and also too much responsibility. I want just enough for my needs and some for my wants.

[pam]

I would like a taste of being wealthy. Maybe for about month. Once I'm done purchasing the things I want.

[Guest]

I could handle being wealthy just for a day. Long enough to pay off our house and the last of our student debt, buy up lots of food and other storage, make sure my parents' debts are paid, too, and throw some money at worthwhile causes.

[classylady]

I would like a taste of being wealthy. Maybe for about month. Once I'm done purchasing the things I want.

I don't know if I'd want to go back once having "tasted" wealth.

[beefche]

I don't know if I'd want to go back once having "tasted" wealth.

It is much easier to adjust to having money than losing money you once had.

[pam]

But I can talk all I want about wanting to be wealthy because I know it will never be. :)

[Guest]

Until you marry Shamar, anyway.

[Yehshen]

Again, issue with spoilers

It is Monday morning, and the last episode of the season aired last night.

I love this show, and eagerly wait for each season to begin. I am furious with how this show ended ...the more cynical out there would call it a "clift hanger" designed to attract audiences for a forth season, but these people have become real in my eyes, and I was so disappointed.

OK. To discuss the characters and the main plot.

I would like to have lived in that time, to enjoy the lifestyle, assuming I was in the upper classes. However, my one big objection would be the inequality of women. What I didn't see anyone discuss is the central problem for this family is the "entail" - Lord Granson had no male heir and thus when he died, the family was at risk of losing its property. How frustrating that the women, therefore, need to develop their resources through either conniving or gentle persuasion.

And so the middle daughter, Edith, with no fortune, is having trouble finding suitors deemed acceptable by the family - what I find so sad is that in almost every relationship she's had - even Sir Anthony - you worry that she is settling. Yes, she tells her family it doesn't matter that he's older and disabled from the war - but truly - she chased him and one wonders if part of that was desperation. It is also interesting to me that she appears to be growing leaps in bounds in intelligence and grace.

And Mrs. Crowley is just annoying. I admire her forthright stance, and her progressive ideas. It was great to hire Ethel, and to call her cook's bluff when the cook refused to work with Ethel. But in the end she is just a busybody who tries to force her views on others. She really annoyed me when she set up the hospital in the manor house, and then tried to tell Lord Granthom that he couldn't keep his dog. I like the way that dog is always around...Perhaps the perk of being the Lord of the Manor, you can have your dog accompany you everywhere.

And about the homosexuality.....

You notice that sexual misbehaviour - whether homosexuality or extra marital - isn't condemned as a sin per se often, but rather the criticism is when it is apparent to other people. Appearances are everything. (Anyone not wanting to see = its not a big part of show).

Edited February 18, 2013 by Yehshen
correct name of character

[Dravin]

I am furious with how this show ended ...the more cynical out there would call it a "clift hanger" designed to attract audiences for a forth season, but these people have become real in my eyes, and I was so disappointed.

Don't take it out on the writers, they really didn't have much in the way of options considering a certain actor didn't want to re-up for additional seasons. If an actor isn't going to be returning for another season you writing options are limited to:

1. Death

2. Exile to off screen

3. Try an actor switcharoo either on the sly, as far as writing is concerned, or some sort of disfigurement to explain why person A is now different.

[Maureen]

...What are thoughts about why people watch the show? I can't believe I'm saying this, but not everything is political. Sometimes a good soap opera with fancy dresses is just a soap opera in fancy dress.

I too am one who watches these shows because I love period pieces. And with Downton I've really gotten wrapped up with the characters both upstairs and downstairs. It's great to see their evolution through the years. In particular, I loved how Mrs Hughes watched out for Branson and at first I wasn't to keen on Rose but I think S4 will be interesting with her in it.

I was extremely upset by the ending of last night's episode but read Julian Fellowes' explanation regarding actor Dan Stevens, and I agree it was the only way to end it.

M.

[lonetree]

Something that I did not know, recently revealed:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/media/11997169/God-banished-from-Downton-Abbey-says-shows-historical-advisor.html

 

Of course not suspecting it in this case is not the same as being surprised. 

[Vort]

That was a Beatles album, right?

[Guest]

[Palerider]

I also believe this is the last season coming up.

[Jamie123]

I also believe this is the last season coming up.

 

The last season has just finished here. What happens at the end is that Lady Mary tries to...... [only joking - no spoilers here!]

 

The story's not quite over yet though - the upcoming Christmas episode will be the series finale.

 

On the earlier discussion of normalizing homosexuality: you're right Thomas is not a nice man, but his not-niceness is never really linked with his being gay. The fact that writers are now allowed to create gay villains without being screamed at for homophobia shows how normalized homosexuality has become. Coronation Street is another case in point: there are no fewer than four gay characters: two of them, Billy and Sophie, are portrayed Christians (Billy is even an Anglican priest, though his bishop doesn't approve), Todd is an underhand conniving backstabber (similar to Thomas in DA) and only Sean really fits the classic, camp "gay-best-friend" image.

 

P.S. I've just been thinking - its a few years since I last read it, but (if I remember rightly) in the original novel version of Dune the only homosexual character is the loathsome Baron Harkonenn - the worst villain! (And no one could ever accuse that of being normalizing!) This was of course in the mid-1960s, but I can't remember if there is any reference to his being gay in the David Lynch movie of 1984. Can anyone remember?

Edited November 23, 2015 by Jamie123

[Sunday21]

I have finished the series and am now waiting for the final Xmas special. Very sad to have almost finished it. Maggie Smith is an amazing actress!