Letter from the Office of the First Presidency

[skippy740]

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/june-first-presidency-statement?lang=eng&cid=facebook-shared

 

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints Office of the First Presidency

47 East South Temple Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84150

June 28, 2014

In God's plan for the happiness and eternal progression of His children, the blessings of His priesthood are equally available to men and women. Only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices. All service in the Church has equal merit in the eyes of God. We express profound gratitude for the millions of Latter-day Saint women and men who willingly and effectively serve God and His children. Because of their faith and service, they have discovered that the Church is a place of spiritual nourishment and growth.

We understand that from time to time Church members will have questions about Church doctrine, history, or practice. Members are always free to ask such questions and earnestly seek greater understanding. We feel special concern, however, for members who distance themselves from Church doctrine or practice and, by advocacy, encourage others to follow them.

Simply asking questions has never constituted apostasy. Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine.

The Council of
The First Presidency and
Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

[Suzie]

Since it is not wrong to ask questions, I will give it a shot. Before I do, I want to make a small perhaps unnecessary disclaimer. I do not seek or care for female ordination but I do understand my sisters who do. Anyways, my questions:

 

Only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices

 

Can we get some scriptural sources for that where God states only men have be ordained to serve in Priesthood offices and if possible, any reasons?

 

Simply asking questions has never constituted apostasy. Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine.

 

1. How exactly Kate Kelly taught false doctrine?

 

2. How exactly she was in public opposition to the Church or its leaders?

 

I am a bit confused to be honest. If my Bishop asks me to do something and I disagree and I don't do it, can I be excommunicated under the grounds of apostasy? Really?

[Backroads]

 

 

1. How exactly Kate Kelly taught false doctrine?

 

2. How exactly she was in public opposition to the Church or its leaders?

 

I am a bit confused to be honest. If my Bishop asks me to do something and I disagree and I don't do it, can I be excommunicated under the grounds of apostasy? Really?

 

 

1.  I don't think the false doctrine claim fits here.

 

2.  When she was told "no, you  may not be ordained" she kept pushing.  I think her Church leaders viewed her connection with the media has making the Church look bad.  Thus, opposing the Church.

[Suzie]

2.  When she was told "no, you  may not be ordained" she kept pushing.  I think her Church leaders viewed her connection with the media has making the Church look bad.  Thus, opposing the Church.

 

So you have this group of sisters who believe women should be ordained to the Priesthood. The reasoning behind it is that there is no scriptural basis that states women cannot. The statement of the First Presidency states: "Only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices". Okay, I think the obvious follow up question is: "Where does it say that?" or "Is there a revelation where it states that only men are allowed to hold the Priesthood" and the answer that seems to be given over and over is "Women cannot be ordained to the Priesthood, only men can". Yeah, I get that. So this groups says "Okay, but we saw X and X here and there that it is possible for them to hold it, etc".

 

One would think, a thorough answer will be given to clarify once and for all what the Church believes to be misleading thoughts or opinions or even facts..but no...the answer and tone remain the same: "Women cannot be ordained to the Priesthood, only men can".  It seems to me that this sort of approach is unhelpful and doesn't lead to a proper dialogue and understanding of both sides.

[pam]

I think President Hinckley said it as plainly as it can be said.  This is on mormon.org:

 

Gordon B. Hinckley, prior President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:

“Women do not hold the priesthood because the Lord has put it that way. It is part of His program.

 

http://www.mormon.org/faq/women-in-the-church

 

If the prophet takes it to prayer and inquires of the Lord and the Lord tells him no through personal revelation...does it have to be written down or some kind of scripture?  Ir we truly believe that President Hinckley or President Monson or any of those great men before them aren't prophets and don't receive answers to their prayers...then...I don't know.

 

The why's of so many things hasn't been revealed to us.  Sometimes we have to be satisfied and have faith that we'll have answers in due time.

 

Right now I'm satisfied with what President Hinckley said..."The Lord has put it that way."

[skippy740]

Having been involved in this discussion in a few formats, here's the bottom line that I see:

 

This policy of women not holding the priesthood does not exclude anyone from entering the Celestial Kingdom, as we understand the Plan of Salvation.

 

As far as I can tell, the only reason that people cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom is in personal worthiness as we now understand.  

 

Even those with same-sex attraction, while they must not act on their attraction, they can still partake of all the ordinances, live worthily, and enter the Celestial Kingdom.  If they don't have a spouse that they married in the temple, they are promised that they will have a worthy spouse in the next life.

 

Unless there are any policies, procedures, or doctrines that unfairly target anyone from attaining the highest blessings that have been revealed... I think we're okay.

[Jane_Doe]

Can we get some scriptural sources for that where God states only men have be ordained to serve in Priesthood offices and if possible, any reasons?

 

There are no scriptures which downright say "Only men can be ordained because XYZ".  The church admits this.  However, men-only ordination to priesthood administrative offices is current practice (not doctrine).  Theoretically this could change in the future, not that is not now.

 

 

1. How exactly Kate Kelly taught false doctrine?

 

2. How exactly she was in public opposition to the Church or its leaders?

 

 

I think Kate Kelly's problem lies much more with actions than beliefs.  Namely, marching on General Conference demanding a change in church policy, dragging the press into it, and prostloyzing these views to others.  

 

 

 

I am a bit confused to be honest. If my Bishop asks me to do something and I disagree and I don't do it, can I be excommunicated under the grounds of apostasy? Really?

 

The 1st Pres letter says: "Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine."   

 

(An example) Say you openly go against Church teachings (say a major sexual sin) and are consoled against it.  You don't feel remorse for you actions, publicly and loudly demand the church change it's policy, and try to convince others of this position.  Yeah, I believe that such a person should undergo church discipline.  

 

Now for another example, say "Bob" struggles with a certain doctrine (say major sexual sin).  He's really stumbling with it, but still trying to follow the Lord's ways.  No, I don't think "Bob" should be excommunicated.  

 

For a third example: say "Jan" doesn't believe every current policy is optimal.  Or doesn't believe some doctrines.  But she doesn't campaign to convince people to change.  I think she's chill

[pam]

Since it is not wrong to ask questions, I will give it a shot. Before I do, I want to make a small perhaps unnecessary disclaimer. I do not seek or care for female ordination but I do understand my sisters who do. Anyways, my questions:

 

 

 

 

Can we get some scriptural sources for that where God states only men have be ordained to serve in Priesthood offices and if possible, any reasons?

 

 

 

 

1. How exactly Kate Kelly taught false doctrine?

 

2. How exactly she was in public opposition to the Church or its leaders?

 

I am a bit confused to be honest. If my Bishop asks me to do something and I disagree and I don't do it, can I be excommunicated under the grounds of apostasy? Really?

 

Really Suzie? Where have you been through all of this?

[skippy740]

Scriptures on how it is only men to hold the priesthood:

 

D&C 20

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/20?lang=eng

 

38 The duty of the elders, priests, teachers, deacons, and members of the church of Christ—An apostle is an elder, and it is his calling to baptize;

 

48 And he may also ordain other priests, teachers, and deacons.

 

49 And he is to take the lead of meetings when there is no elder present;

 

50 But when there is an elder present, he is only to preach, teach, expound, exhort, and baptize,

 

56 And he is to take the lead of meetings in the absence of the elder or priest—

 

60 Every elder, priest, teacher, or deacon is to be ordained according to the gifts and callings of God unto him; and he is to be ordained by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is in the one who ordains him.

 

64 Each priest, teacher, or deacon, who is ordained by a priest, may take a certificate from him at the time, which certificate, when presented to an elder, shall entitle him to a license, which shall authorize him to perform the duties of his calling, or he may receive it from a conference.

 

 

Notice the contrast in verse 73:

 

73 The person who is called of God and has authority from Jesus Christ to baptize, shall go down into the water with the person who has presented himself or herself for baptism, and shall say, calling him or her by name: Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

 

74 Then shall he immerse him or her in the water, and come forth again out of the water.

 

 

I find it curious that up until that point, the Lord emphasized He, His, or Him.  Then later, it was Him or her, and himself or herself.

 

 

Resuming with verse 76:

 

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church and call upon the Father in solemn prayer, saying:

 

78 The manner of administering the wine—he shall take the cup also, and say:

 

 

 

Just in looking at Section 20, and seeing how it is written for baptism - including himself or herself - and the rest of it is he, his, or him... it appears pretty clear to me.

 

Abraham 1

 

3 It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.

 

 31 But the records of the fathers, even the patriarchs, concerning the right of Priesthood, the Lord my God preserved in mine own hands; therefore a knowledge of the beginning of the creation, and also of the planets, and of the stars, as they were made known unto the fathers, have I kept even unto this day, and I shall endeavor to write some of these things upon this record, for the benefit of my posterity that shall come after me.

 

Now Pharoah sought to IMITATE the priesthood:

 

26 Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.

 

 

The Priesthood has always been a Patriarchal order, from these few scriptures that I've posted.

[pam]

If you go to the topical guide on lds.org and look up contention...it also links you to false doctrine.

 

There has been much contention and therefore I can see where false doctrine can come into play with all of this.

[Suzie]

 

I think President Hinckley said it as plainly as it can be said.  This is on mormon.org:

 

Gordon B. Hinckley, prior President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said:

“Women do not hold the priesthood because the Lord has put it that way. It is part of His program.

 

http://www.mormon.org/faq/women-in-the-church

 

If the prophet takes it to prayer and inquires of the Lord and the Lord tells him no through personal revelation...does it have to be written down or some kind of scripture?  Ir we truly believe that President Hinckley or President Monson or any of those great men before them aren't prophets and don't receive answers to their prayers...then...I don't know.

 

The why's of so many things hasn't been revealed to us.  Sometimes we have to be satisfied and have faith that we'll have answers in due time.

 

Right now I'm satisfied with what President Hinckley said..."The Lord has put it that way."

 

Does the Church claim they asked the Lord if women can hold the Priesthood? I don't get that impression at all.

[Suzie]

Really Suzie? Where have you been through all of this?

 What do you mean?

[Suzie]

And that's the point right there, a practice, not a doctrine and there lies the whole issue.

 

There are no scriptures which downright say "Only men can be ordained because XYZ".  The church admits this.  However, men-only ordination to priesthood administrative offices is current practice (not doctrine).  Theoretically this could change in the future, not that is not now.

 

[Maureen]

 

Does the Church claim they asked the Lord if women can hold the Priesthood? I don't get that impression at all.

 

 

I'm with Suzie on this. Has the First Presidency ever said since OW began that they have taken female ordination to the Lord in prayer and received a No answer; or have they come out and said that they do not wish to enquire of the Lord just yet?

 

M.

[Suzie]

The quote of Hinckley on mormon.org comes from an interview, where right after he said:

 

 

 

 

 

RB: At present women are not allowed to be priests in your Church. Why is that?

 

"RB: You say the Lord has put it that way. What do you mean by that?

GBH: I mean that’s a part of His programme. Of course it is, yes.

RB: Is it possible that the rules could change in the future as the rules are on Blacks ?

GBH: He could change them yes. If He were to change them that’s the only way it would happen.

RB: So you’d have to get a revelation?

GBH: Yes. But there’s no agitation for that. We don’t find it. Our women are happy. They’re satisfied. These bright, able, wonderful women who administer their own organisation are very happy. Ask them. Ask my wife.

 

So if more women in the Church seek for female ordination, will the Church consider it somehow? Back then OW was not in existence, now things seem to be a little different and there is definetly "agitation" for that...

[pam]

 

 

 

Does the Church claim they asked the Lord if women can hold the Priesthood? I don't get that impression at all.

 

 

Why does the church have to claim that?  I'm sure there is much they have inquired of the Lord in the upper rooms of the temple that they haven't told us about.  Some things are sacred that are spoken of there that can't be released to the general membership.

[Suzie]

Why does the church have to claim that?  I'm sure there is much they have inquired of the Lord in the upper rooms of the temple that they haven't told us about.  Some things are sacred that are spoken of there that can't be released to the general membership.

 

I don't understand, how stating that they prayed to the Lord and he said no, women cannot hold the Priesthood is something so sacred that cannot be shared?

[Jane_Doe]

Rather than getting ordained and trying to be 'one of the guys', I'd rather just embrace the power of womanhood and expand upon that (which is much more than giving birth).  

[Backroads]

I don't understand, how stating that they prayed to the Lord and he said no, women cannot hold the Priesthood is something so sacred that cannot be shared?

 

 

I admit, I don't know if they took this to the Lord or not. I assumed they did.

 

However, and this might be contentious, I believe most women of the OW variety would not accept "We took it to the Lord and He said no."

[slamjet]

I don't understand, how stating that they prayed to the Lord and he said no, women cannot hold the Priesthood is something so sacred that cannot be shared?

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand; why?  If it's something that has been signed off by not only the prophet, but his counselors and the 12, does including "thus sayeth the Lord" make it any more authoritative?

[Palerider]

Removed......had a name of a person that I did not want included

[slamjet]

Interesting?  Nothings there.

[skippy740]

This really fits here:

 

[pam]

http://youtu.be/-QYlDLChzig

[Palerider]

Thanks Pam.....thats what I was trying to post earlier