A controversial topic, to make MoE happy :)

[mordorbund]

Nerds were first popularized in modern media when the token nerd became a necessary trope in any group of friends (see Saved by the Bell, Family Matters, Boy Meets World, for child cliques; adults who grew up on such programming later embraced Ross of Friends and George of Seinfeld). The early presentation of nerds in popular media garnered exposure, displaying a mix of mockery and comfort. The next success came with the PC revolution when nerds were associated with wealth. With this step, nerdery came to be embraced as a virtue in and of itself. The final modern stage is retribution, when grown nerds are fighting back in the legislature with laws against bullying and attempts to get nerdery included in school curricula.

[The Folk Prophet]

Nerds were first popularized in modern media when the token nerd became a necessary trope in any group of friends (see Saved by the Bell, Family Matters, Boy Meets World, for child cliques; adults who grew up on such programming later embraced Ross of Friends and George of Seinfeld). The early presentation of nerds in popular media garnered exposure, displaying a mix of mockery and comfort. The next success came with the PC revolution when nerds were associated with wealth. With this step, nerdery came to be embraced as a virtue in and of itself. The final modern stage is retribution, when grown nerds are fighting back in the legislature with laws against bullying and attempts to get nerdery included in school curricula.

 

Why does this path read so similar to gays and their path to acceptance and popularity? Hmm... TV. How we love thee.

[Anddenex]

Yes, I think corruption is accelerating, and what's in store for even the near future is beyond what we would have imagined in even the past few decades.

 

I find this thought disturbing (creepy).  Let me see if I can paint it clearly, "I think corruption (e.g. rape, murder, lies, bureaucracy, stealing, fraud, etc...) is accelerating..." Let's put it another way, "I love accelerating what caused the need for a  "flood" or "fire."  Sorry, nothing corrupt is accelerating in the least.  

 

The option, moral agency, the ability to have knowledge and choosing the good part is accelerating and progressive.  The natural man has never been and never will be accelerating and always ends in damnation.

 

It's funny you say that, because I see far more good in the world today than I see wickedness.  In fact, I don't think the world has ever been as wonderful as it is now.

 

This appears to be a naive mentality; however, unless this thought represents Lehi's mentality as provided by his son Nephi (1 Nephi 15: 27), "And I said unto them that the water which y father saw was filthiness; and so much was his mind swallowed up in other things that he beheld not the filthiness of the water."

 

In light of this verse, Joseph F. Smith declared, "Change the focus of your view, and of your eye, from watching for evil to watching for that which is good, that which is pure, and leading and prompting those who err into that path which has no error in it, and that will not admit of mistakes. Look for good in men, and where they fail to possess it, try to build it up in them; try to increase the good in them; look for the good; build up the good; sustain the good; and speak as little about the evil as you possibly can. It does not do any good to magnify evil, to publish evil, or to promulgate it by tongue or pen. There is no good to be obtained by it. It is better to bury the evil and magnify the good, and prompt all men to forsake evil and learn to do good; and let our mission be to save mankind and to teach and guide in the path of righteousness, and not to sit as judges and pass judgment upon evil-doers, but rather to be saviors of men.

 

"We need mercy; then let us be merciful. We need charity; let us be charitable. We need forgiveness; let us forgive. Let us do unto others what we would that they should do unto us [see Matthew 7:12].”

 

In this case, then I would agree with the mentality; however, I cannot see how the first statement and the second are compatible.  They are exclusive.  One rejoices in corruption while the other naively (unless like Lehi and Joseph F. Smith — which is good — a matter of focus) close both eyes.

 

Pertaining to Other Conversations: Periods in Time I would have Enjoyed

 

Yes, there are other eras I would have thoroughly enjoyed (i.e. The City of Enoch (no corruption), time period with the Nephites when the Lord appeared before people leaned toward Babylon).

 

However, I wouldn't have survived probably during those times.  I am alive today due to modern medicine and a blessing in my youth.  I was a sick child.  Twice I felt the burden of walking pneumonia and once pneumonia before I was 8 years old.  So, as to life, this was the best era for me to live.  Future, would love to have lived during the 1000 years of the millennium.  That would be great (at least 500 years into it).  How fortunate they are -- depending on what one considers fortunate.

Edited October 22, 2014 by Anddenex

[The Folk Prophet]

Andennex -

 

I think it's a huge (and somewhat odd) leap to read "rejoicing" into the corruption is accelerating idea. Where do you draw that from it? The interpretation from the first (I think it is accelerating) to the second (I love that it's accelerating) is a bit bewildering as a logical construct. The first does not mean the second.

Edited October 23, 2014 by The Folk Prophet

[Anddenex]

Andennex -

 

I think it's a huge (and somewhat odd) leap to read "rejoicing" into the corruption is accelerating idea. Where do you draw that from it? The interpretation from the first (I think it is accelerating) to the second (I love that it's accelerating) is a bit bewildering as a logical construct. The first does not mean the second.

 

Alright, you think differently.  "I think corruption is accelerating..."  The other statement, in contrast, "I see more good."  The second statement implies, to me, the first "rejoices" in corruption because it is accelerating -- good.

 

Ever heard anyone specify "think" and "love" in the same construct?  I sure have.  I think diversity is accelerating.  I love diversity.  An odd construct?  

 

We have a separate thought; however, I am not sure how JAG meant the first statement and I could have clearly misunderstood the first statement.  

 

EDIT: I am now thinking I misunderstood JAG's opening statement.  The contrast I saw as one referring to corruption as good - an accelerating force.  Now I am thinking the statement meant that one sees corruption simply increasing and the other sees more good.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Anddenex

[Guest]

IMO, this is changing due to The Big Bang Theory; nerds are admired and revered. :)

 

M.

 

 

Nah, nerds have been admired for years before that. Ever since they took over cooperate America.

 

Yeah... nerds have been picked on... but I thought it was Revenge of the Nerds, not Big Bang Theory that got them on the cool side of things. 

 

Edited October 23, 2014 by anatess

[The Folk Prophet]

Alright, you think differently.  "I think corruption is accelerating..."  The other statement, in contrast, "I see more good."  The second statement implies, to me, the first "rejoices" in corruption because it is accelerating -- good.

 

Ever heard anyone specify "think" and "love" in the same construct?  I sure have.  I think diversity is accelerating.  I love diversity.  An odd construct?  

 

We have a separate thought; however, I am not sure how JAG meant the first statement and I could have clearly misunderstood the first statement.  

 

EDIT: I am now thinking I misunderstood JAG's opening statement.  The contrast I saw as one referring to corruption as good - an accelerating force.  Now I am thinking the statement meant that one sees corruption simply increasing and the other sees more good.

 

Well, as JaG was quoting me with the first statement, I'm pretty sure that I didn't mean that I love that sin and corruption are accelerating.

 

I meant that the world's getting worse and worse. that sin and corruption are more and more rampant and acceptable, and that it is obviously so.

[Just_A_Guy]

Random observations:

1. Given the increasing population, it's very possible that both good and evil are increasing.

2. How are we defining "good" and "evil"? Life is certainly easier now, and there's much more of the sort of "good" that generally makes life pleasant. But that's a separate issue from "personal righteousness". Is the average person of today more generally honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuously, and charitable; than the average individual of 150 years ago was? I'm not sure.

And of course, well-ordered societies can collapse quite quickly and unleash man''s inner demons. Just ask the Germans, or the Donner Party. And while we are in a period of relative peace now, this website indicates that the average human's odds of dying a violent death tripled from the 19th to the 20th centuries.

3. It's interesting how some individuals who continually insist we deal with some new crisis or other (Domestic violence! gender oppression! rape epidemic! poverty! disease!) suddenly revert into "everything is awesome" mode when it's suggested that, gee, maybe the scriptures and those guys in Salt Lake actually saw some of this coming. (And yes, the converse is true for us conservatives as well.)

Edited October 23, 2014 by Just_A_Guy

[The Folk Prophet]

Random observations:

1. Given the increasing population, it's very possible that both good and evil are increasing.

 

I'd say...irrelevant. The amount of evil in the world is not a percentage issue. 100 evil people is more than 10 evil people, even if both are 100% .

 

2. How are we defining "good" and "evil"? 

 

I'd say it's directly and linked to the family. As families become devalued, evil increases.

 

But, to be clear, my meaning was related to sin, not necessarily living quality. When I say corruption is increasing (or "accelerating" (a word that apparently confused Andenex :))), I meant sin.

 

Simply put, religion is faltering. Sinful activity is increasing. Families are falling apart. Etc.

[Anddenex]

Well, as JaG was quoting me with the first statement, I'm pretty sure that I didn't mean that I love that sin and corruption are accelerating.

 

I meant that the world's getting worse and worse. that sin and corruption are more and more rampant and acceptable, and that it is obviously so.

 

Well, if JAG was quoting you then I definitely lacked in comprehending the quote with my first post. 

 

That would also change my second response, because I was looking at two contrasting statements and responded in kind.  

 

I would then agree with both posts, and as others have said, they aren't mutually exclusive.  I will still keep Lehi's focus and I like Joseph F. Smith's quote, but I would change the naive mentality then and think the individual was inline with these quotes.

 

My synapses were off in seeing the connection, which would make sense since I interpreted the first statement incorrectly.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Anddenex

[Just_A_Guy]

My bad for not properly sourcing the quotes. Sorry, guys . . .

[The Folk Prophet]

Well, if JAG was quoting you then I definitely lacked in comprehending the quote with my first post. 

 

That would also change my second response, because I was looking at two contrasting statements and responded in kind.  

 

I would then agree with both posts, and as others have said, they aren't mutually exclusive.  I will still keep Lehi's focus and I like Joseph F. Smith's quote, but I would change the naive mentality then and think the individual was inline with these quotes.

 

My synapses were off in seeing the connection, which would make sense since I interpreted the first statement incorrectly.

 

Context:

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/55528-pastors-being-sued-for-refusing-to-marry-a-same-sex-couple-in-their-chapel/?p=794477

 

http://lds.net/forums/topic/55528-pastors-being-sued-for-refusing-to-marry-a-same-sex-couple-in-their-chapel/?p=794478

[Anddenex]

My bad for not properly sourcing the quotes. Sorry, guys . . .

 

Not so sure as your bad as is mine for not taking a moment to actually understand the quotes. :)

[Urstadt]

The world has definitely become more polarized. I think this is the answer we're all looking for.

Yes, there is more (and worst) wickedness, but there is more (and richer) righteousness, and the distance between the two has become greater. That's the polarization. The best and the worst have been saved for the last days.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Urstadt

[avatar4321]

I have to go with the world is a better place now than at any time in recorded history. Yes, there are issues. Clearly there is evil. Yet, would anyone really want to live at another time in history.

We have better opportunities. Less disease. Less slavery, oppression, and death.

While we hear about bad things happening it is easy to lose sight of the good around us. If we think life was somehow better historically, we need to o more study of history.

less slavery? I hate to burst your bubble. I really do but there is just as much slavery. It's just underground and in other countries. The sex slave trade for one is particularly nasty and unfortunately very strong.

people home and abroad are being oppressed too. Governments not listening to the people. Isis is one of the most oppressive governing body in a while but there have always been tyrants and dictators.

not to mention slavery and oppression from sin. The only thing that will save this world is Christ's return

[Blackmarch]

Point:

 

 

Counterpoint:

 

 

Discuss.  :)

the two ends of the spectrum are getting further apart from each other.

[RMGuy]

@Avatar,

You will find no argument from me regarding the idea that there are still real problems throughout the world. However, it is still my premise that the world is getting better, not worse. Yes, slavery still exists and I agree that sexual slavery is particularly pernicious. However, my statement stands that there is less slavery in the world than throuout history. If you have data that suggests otherwise, I would be interested in reading your citations.

[mrmarklin]

_{It was the best of times, it was he worst of tmes....to paraphrase Dickens.  This on the eve of the French revolution.}

 

_{Anyone who thinks we live in the worst of times has no sense of modern history.  Think about 200 years ago.  Euorpe was in the midst of the Napoleonic wars, most of the people in the world were totally illiterate and even the Europeans and people in the US had the standard of living now extant in the Cameroons.  You couldn't even light a match-there were none- your toilet was an outhouse or if you were well off, a chamber pot.}

 

_{Even more important, the political systems were more about monarchies. Democracy?  Forgedaboutit.  Only English speaking countries had any semblance off this.}

 

_{Wickedness?  There was plenty....read about the Marquise de Sade.  Sadly, he was not particularly unique.}

 

_{Remember this:  For the prophecy in Daniel to be fulfilled, the world must be a better place or the work of  the Lord cannot go on.  It took a revolution for Joseph Smith to be able to present his ideas, and survive long enough to be heard.} 

 

_{We live in the best of times, and they are only getting better.  Even in my lifetime the Lord has presented new and better ways for the gospel to be heard around the world, getting ever closer to fulfilling the prophecies.}

 

_{Of course as nephi said there must needs be opposite in all things, and some of the tools te ord has given us can be and are being abused}

 

_{But overall, I'm very optimistic. :)} 

[The Folk Prophet]

Anyone who thinks we live in the worst of times has no sense of modern history.

 

We're not talking about generic "worst" time. OP is only speaking of corruption? Can you apply the same by replacing the word "worst" with the "most corrupt"?

 

Examples of corruption don't work unless they're as widespread as the corruption in our day.

 

But your post does make me think. As in the Dicken's quote: can it not be the best of times and the worst of times? Or, more appropriate to the question at hand: Can it not be the most righteous and the most wicked of times?

[drham3rd]

It seems to me that the argument about is there more evil or more good must be viewed in context of issues like history, population growth, and the ability of us to instantly know about things!

 

Looking at history, we can clearly see that there have been worse times in the past, the Dark Ages, the Plaque, World Wars, etc.  I think that in 100 years when they write our history, they will be concentrating on the technological advances of the past 60+ years and not really on the good vs evil!  

 

There has been an almost log scale growth in human population in the past 200+ years and that affects our perception of what happens.  Is there more crime than in the past, maybe not if you adjust crime rates to population growth?  Poverty levels were definiately larger as a percentage of population in the past.  The technology increase has increased human life expectancy and that affects the way we view things also.

 

Our instant view of the world now also provides us with a different perspective!  Just think that less than 100 years ago, we would only really be aware of the society we directly lived in!  Awareness of what was happening in the next state or another country required waiting for the news, sometimes weeks at a time!  Now we know in seconds what use to take weeks to realize, so as the world shrinks in this regard, our perceptions of reality is altered.