Serving the ungrateful and entitled

[Guest]

I've probably already answered my own question, but it's on my mind and I wanted to bounce it off of you.

 

We've become acquainted with some people who are, frankly, takers. They aren't the worst, in fact they recently did something pretty nice for us. But when they need or even want something, they tend to just expect it of people. In fact we've question whether their recent conversion has as much to do with how much aid they've gotten from the church as anything. 

 

Obviously, it's not as gratifying to do things for someone who is ungrateful, and less so when they feel entitled to it. I know we should NOT serve for our own gratification, but is there a measurement you use to determine whether your service is helping them, or hurting them by enabling behaviors that put them in bad situations in the first place?

 

Here's a specific: they asked me to watch their special needs son while they are at work next weekend (having jobs is a step up!). I had the impression it would be for a couple of hours, but learned last night that it would be for 10 hours, and late into the night. That's too much for me with everything else I have, anyway, but I was going to follow through with my commitment (and be sure to be careful not to get roped into it again). This morning, I learned that I'm probably going to be losing my dad in the near future. I emailed them and let them know that I will not be able to keep their son, because I need to be available to go to my dad on a moment's notice. I didn't get a, "sorry about your dad" or a "thanks anyway", just a message that sounded a little put out, and then saw a facebook status lamenting their own bad fortune.

 

I won't lie, it doesn't make me want to help out again.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Eowyn

[The Folk Prophet]

Since "ungrateful and entitled" pretty much sums up people in today's day and age, if we don't serve them, then who?

 

As to your situation, just ignore it. You do what you have to. If they're offended, that's their issue.

[Jane_Doe]

There's a difference between serving others, and letting yourself be taken advantage of.  After Jesus feed the 5000, the people wanted to force him to be king and continue feeding them.  Rather than be taken advantage of, Jesus left.  People deserve the right to learn to take care of themselves (whether or not they want it).

 

In regards to this particular family, don't waste your time being offended.  You've learned your lesson and now it's time to move on.

 

 I'll keep your dad in my prayers.  Best wishes to him and your family. 

Edited November 6, 2014 by Jane_Doe

[Just_A_Guy]

Sorry to hear about your dad.

 

Some people just aren't good at expressing gratitude, even thought they might be feeling it deeply.  That doesn't mean you have to knock yourself out for them, obviously . . . but don't think you're unappreciated. 

[PolarVortex]

I have a similar story.  A few years ago I was asked to host an evening discussion group in my home.  I was led to believe that I didn't have to do anything except maybe start a fire in my fireplace (to make a cozy atmosphere) and open my living room to a group of well-mannered acquaintances who just wanted to discuss various aspects of some horrible book they were all reading.

 

I figured I could do this for six weeks so I was a good sport and agreed.  A few days before the first meeting, I learned that I was expected to provide dinner to all the guests, who would be arriving with empty tummies and nothing else (i.e., no potluck stuff allowed).  I have a rule that I follow through on all commitments unless a true emergency comes up, so at great personal expense I provided catered food for all six evenings.  I never got a single thank you from anyone. 

 

This taught me a very valuable lesson that may be helpful.  When a friend asks me for a favor, I stroke my chin and ask dozens of questions to make sure I understand 100% of what is being asked.  I've been burned too many times by a request for a really huge favor that is slyly packaged as a request for a really small favor.

 

So that's one comment.  My other comment is about worlds in collision.

 

I've learned that culture clashes are common between some families.  What some people consider a small favor may be a breathtaking imposition on someone else.  When I was a boy, my mother was routinely asked to wallpaper whole rooms of various relatives simply because she was good with strippers, paste, rollers, and smoothers.  These jobs would take 10-20 hours each.  One elderly relative claimed she had a dream that my mother had agreed to wallpaper the relative's living room, and (for reasons that are still unclear to me) this dream was binding upon my mother, so she did it.   My mom was never paid a penny, although I think once she got a plate of cookies in return.  And yet my mother wouldn't ask her own sister for a ride to the grocery store.

 

Different people, different opinions of taking.  I would be shocked if anyone asked me to spend a whole weekend watching somoene else's child, and yet I have friends who would routinely ask each other to do this with no more reluctance than asking to borrow a cup of sugar. 

 

I'm sorry to hear about your father.  He should come first.  If I were you, I'd focus on your father and tune out everything else (to the extent possible).  As for your Mr. and Mrs. Taker friends, I think the best rule of etiquette for them is: "Let's discuss the details of the favor you are asking.  I won't be offended by the enormity of your request if you're not offended by my saying 'no' to things that would burden me."

 

Best wishes for your father, of course.

[Jane_Doe]

One of the best RS lessons I've ever had was entitled "Today we are going to teach you how to pack".  It was an odd title, but very fitting.  I'm in a college town, and quite literally 2/3 of my ward moves every 12 months.  This becomes exhausting for everyone involved, particularly when you have families that just expect you to do everything for them (I've many horror stories from that).  

 

The point of the RS lesson was to  say "yes, we're here to help you, be we also want to teach you to help yourself."   I think that's a very important lesson.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Jane_Doe

[notquiteperfect]

I hear you Eowyn and I'm also sorry about your dad.  

Great input so far so will just share the 'measurement' I use.  I'll help/give once, even twice but once I've picked up on a pattern of ingratitude, etc - no more!  There are others that need service who seem to actually appreciate it so I don't bother with the others.  I say let the takers help the takers.

[mirkwood]

I am usually happy to help people out.  If I find out that I am being taken advantage of, I have no problem calling someone on that.

 

Polar Vortex's story for example, I would have no problem at all informing them I was not providing food for everyone.  They could potluck it, or eat before arriving.  I'm not saying you did anything wrong PV, but I would not have put up with that.

[Backroads]

I feel for that family. Really, I do. It is tough when you just have to do what you need to do without the best help. And yeah, it bites for them you had to back out. But... you had to. Your family comes first. Their plan fell through, they best find a new one.

In general, charity isn't always fun. And we should seek to help others. But we also must help ourselves.

[Traveler]

I would determine how long you can take their son and tell them you can take their son for XX to XX.  but they must get someone else to take the rest of the time.  If that does not work that you are sorry you cannot help more and wish them well.

 

If someone asks and needs help - I do what I can.  I do the same with church callings.  If certain meetings conflict with family needs - I inform those in charge - I cannot be at the meeting.  There is nothing wrong with helping and not making their problems your own.

[Guest MormonGator]

OP-You raise a great question I have sometimes asked: What is the difference between serving and being a doormat? Where is the line drawn?

[applepansy]

I've probably already answered my own question, but it's on my mind and I wanted to bounce it off of you.

 

We've become acquainted with some people who are, frankly, takers. They aren't the worst, in fact they recently did something pretty nice for us. But when they need or even want something, they tend to just expect it of people. In fact we've question whether their recent conversion has as much to do with how much aid they've gotten from the church as anything. 

 

Obviously, it's not as gratifying to do things for someone who is ungrateful, and less so when they feel entitled to it. I know we should NOT serve for our own gratification, but is there a measurement you use to determine whether your service is helping them, or hurting them by enabling behaviors that put them in bad situations in the first place?

 

Here's a specific: they asked me to watch their special needs son while they are at work next weekend (having jobs is a step up!). I had the impression it would be for a couple of hours, but learned last night that it would be for 10 hours, and late into the night. That's too much for me with everything else I have, anyway, but I was going to follow through with my commitment (and be sure to be careful not to get roped into it again). This morning, I learned that I'm probably going to be losing my dad in the near future. I emailed them and let them know that I will not be able to keep their son, because I need to be available to go to my dad on a moment's notice. I didn't get a, "sorry about your dad" or a "thanks anyway", just a message that sounded a little put out, and then saw a facebook status lamenting their own bad fortune.

 

I won't lie, it doesn't make me want to help out again.

thank you for posting this.  I am struggling with this issue too.   I don't have time to respond tonight but I will try to soon.

 

One thought though.  Even though the people we serve seem to not appreciate and even are rude about our service or when we can't serve, Christ knows our hearts and he does appreciate our efforts.

Edited November 7, 2014 by applepansy

[Jane_Doe]

OP-You raise a great question I have sometimes asked: What is the difference between serving and being a doormat? Where is the line drawn?

 

Here's my rule-of-thumb--

 

Once a favor (not huge), sure no problem.

Times after that, I do like to help out.  However, if you start taking advantage, then I stop.  I define taking advantage as any of the following:

1)  When asking me inhibits your personal growth (you're not learning to help yourself).

2)  When my helping encourages bad habits in you (like laziness).  

3)  When my helping greatly hampers my personal wellbeing or that of my family (I have limits).

4)  When you just assume that I'll help and become entitled.  This falls into all three above-- you're not learning how to help yourself, you're becoming prideful and lacking gratitude, and it's using me.  

[james.po]

That's one of the reason I became inactive. People kept asking me to drive then places for free, buy them stuff, work for free, and even volunteered me to give my money to charity. I even spent months hauling two members around, dropping everything I was doing every time they called. In return? Once I stopped doing it all because I couldn't afford the money or time any more, almost everyone stopped talking to me. There were some who were grateful, but many seem to expect me to me on call with a car, money, and time.

[notquiteperfect]

Here's my rule-of-thumb--

 

Once a favor (not huge), sure no problem.

Times after that, I do like to help out.  However, if you start taking advantage, then I stop.  I define taking advantage as any of the following:

1)  When asking me inhibits your personal growth (you're not learning to help yourself).

2)  When my helping encourages bad habits in you (like laziness).  

3)  When my helping greatly hampers my personal wellbeing or that of my family (I have limits).

4)  When you just assume that I'll help and become entitled.  This falls into all three above-- you're not learning how to help yourself, you're becoming prideful and lacking gratitude, and it's using me.  

 

Jane Doe - you said this better than I did and it's concise and very well put.  Can I quote you?

[Guest]

I would determine how long you can take their son and tell them you can take their son for XX to XX.  but they must get someone else to take the rest of the time.  If that does not work that you are sorry you cannot help more and wish them well.

 

 

 

I would be careful with this... there has been times when I volunteered to babysit from xx to yy and nobody came to relieve me when yy time came and, of course, I can't just leave the baby... my kids ended up staying in school until 6PM when my husband was able to get out of work to pick them up.

 

As far as my method of charity... I help out when I have the capacity to do so.  I don't care for gratitudes or if I was being used and manipulated.  I leave that up to God.  I help because I want to help... and that's contingent on my capacity in order of priority.  There are always more help needed than my time/energy/resource available.

 

This has been a point of discussion between my husband and I.  I have 173 people I buy Christmas presents for every Christmas.  It gets expensive if I buy everybody something.  So, I usually spend the months of November and December making homemade presents.  My husband, at least once a year, tells me I should just send Christmas cards because more than half of these people don't even bother sending a Christmas card, let alone a present.  And I just have to remind him every year - I'm giving Christmas presents because I want to give them a present, not because I want a card or present or Thank You back...

[Jane_Doe]

Jane Doe - you said this better than I did and it's concise and very well put.  Can I quote you?

Sure, I'm flattered!

[PolarVortex]

I am usually happy to help people out.  If I find out that I am being taken advantage of, I have no problem calling someone on that.

 

Polar Vortex's story for example, I would have no problem at all informing them I was not providing food for everyone.  They could potluck it, or eat before arriving.  I'm not saying you did anything wrong PV, but I would not have put up with that.

 

I think you're right, and in retrospect I probably should have done that.  But there was more to the story that I didn't mention.  About a hundred people in my former church (a non-LDS church) were organized into many of these little discussion groups, and all the hosts except me knew what they were getting into.  I volunteered to host at the last minute and didn't follow my own advice of understanding what was required.  From the organizers' perspective, I was signing up for something with full knowledge of the dinner requirement. Had I refused to serve a meal, it would have caused a great disturbance in the Force with lots of last-minute scurrying and panic and waves of anger toward me.  Further proof that I should not agree to any favors until I understand what is being asked.  It was doubly hard for me because there was no way I could have cooked for my visitors.  I am a single man and I cook only ultra-healthy meals that most people would find repulsive.  Even I have to gag them down from time to time.  (But I'm in really good health.)

[Maureen]

...My husband, at least once a year, tells me I should just send Christmas cards because more than half of these people don't even bother sending a Christmas card, let alone a present.  And I just have to remind him every year - I'm giving Christmas presents because I want to give them a present, not because I want a card or present or Thank You back...

 

Yes, attitude is everything. If a person does a favour and is expecting something in return, then there's a good chance that disappointment will occur. But if you help someone just because you want to, then you are happy and maybe the person being helped is also happy, they just might not know how to acknowledge their happiness.

 

M.

[Guest]

After having him for a couple of hours today, I feel even better at setting that limit. Even if I'm somehow available next week, there's no way I can emotionally handle caring for this kid for that length of time. I'm too tired and fragile already and there's a long, hard week ahead. 

 

Healthy boundaries and setting limits are not bad things.

[Guest]

After having him for a couple of hours today, I feel even better at setting that limit. Even if I'm somehow available next week, there's no way I can emotionally handle caring for this kid for that length of time. I'm too tired and fragile already and there's a long, hard week ahead.

Healthy boundaries and setting limits are not bad things.

Not at all! It's the only way to do it. Love others as yourself - not Love others beyond yourself...

[MrShorty]

I'm not sure that I have any real advice, but this discussion reminds me of the discussion that swirled around the internet last month when the Church released the "You Never Know" video (brief plot synopsis: young mother has plans to meet with cousin in the evening. One "service opportunity" after another over the course of the day causes her to miss this appointment. She is upset until she starts to think about the good that she did accomplish that day). The discussion seemed split between "What an amazing video. We need to remember the good we do." and "What a terrible video. It teaches us to sacrifice ourselves beyond what is needed or healthy." Eowyn's anecdote here is another example of different ways and nuances as we approach the question of "how much is required" when it comes to serving our fellowman. An example of learning how to balance selfless service with "not running faster than we have strength."

[Traveler]

I would be careful with this... there has been times when I volunteered to babysit from xx to yy and nobody came to relieve me when yy time came and, of course, I can't just leave the baby... my kids ended up staying in school until 6PM when my husband was able to get out of work to pick them up.

 

.......

 

anatess:  A couple of thoughts.  If you are getting stuck and abandoned it is likely this a also a trend not unfamiliar to those you are helping.  I personally would not leave to chance that my relief would come when I expected.  I would want to know the particulates of the exchange and if it did not take place: why my relief failed and exactly what their expectations was concerning the exchange.  It may not have been those that need help that screwed up exchange.  If it was important or critical to me that there is an exchange I would make sure that those that releaved me would know and understand.  Thus any failure would not be blamed, in my mind, in the set up but directly on those responsible for the execution of the plan.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Traveler

[skalenfehl]

We are all takers, ungrateful and entitled before the Lord.

[Backroads]

There's also the question if the need is greater than one's personal irritation and inconvenience.