Bini Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Watch the video before you comment. You'll need to search it but it's easily found as it's viral.So, the issue is with the one cop that not only forcibly manhandles a 14-year old girl but pulls a gun out of frustration to intimidate a group of teenagers. The cop is on leave as of now while things get sorted.Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Let the cop bashing begin once again. bytor2112 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Let the cop bashing begin once again. Seriously. It's a 7 minute video that starts out in full action. What happened before that 7 minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bini Posted June 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Hard to tell.From what's shown, it's pretty intense, and seems overkill. With a sister that's an attorney here in SLC and two friends that are police officers, I respect the hard jobs they do, but sometimes good guys make BAD choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) A rapist is a rapist, a child molester is a child molester, and a bad cop is a bad cop. By saying this I am not saying that all men are rapists, not by a long shot. I know many wondeful, righteous God-fearing men. Like-wise calling a bad cop a bad cop doesn't mean I hate all cops. I know a couple cops who are great men. I trust that there are many more fine cops out there. Simply putting on a uniform doesn't make you a hero, any more than anatomy makes you a "real man". Actions define men and heroes.I watched the video Bini, it seemed like over kill to me too particularly the two incidents you mentioned. Edited June 8, 2015 by LiterateParakeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Let the cop bashing begin once again. Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean you feel that these officers were perfectly justified in this incident, and that anyone who disagrees must necessarily be nothing but a simple cop hater who never acknowledges good cops? Because that's kinda how it came across to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveler Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean you feel that these officers were perfectly justified in this incident, and that anyone who disagrees must necessarily be nothing but a simple cop hater who never acknowledges good cops? Because that's kinda how it came across to me. I do not think I was raised at all like you were. My rather never took my side - no matter how much the other person was at fault. Any conformation I had with our local police, a teacher at school, or even a bully that beat the tar out of me on the play ground. He always addressed me that it was all my fault. He never said I was justified - he never took my side and said it was alright. He never allowed me any latitude and always told me that there were things I could have done to have prevented the problem. If I was talking to a policeman with problems with those he tries to protect - I would blame them and tell them there are things they could have done and should have done to better resolve the situation. Likewise whenever I address someone that despises police, never says anything to support the police and tries in every way to find and highlight problems with the police - I blame them and am very sure that they are a problem that is worse than that which they complain of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Not sure how to interpret that. Do you mean you feel that these officers were perfectly justified in this incident, and that anyone who disagrees must necessarily be nothing but a simple cop hater who never acknowledges good cops? Because that's kinda how it came across to me. Lately on this forum, every time there is an article or something about cops it has turned into the bashing of police officers. That's all I meant. Palerider and unixknight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Lately on this forum, every time there is an article or something about cops it has turned into the bashing of police officers. That's all I meant. Thanks for clarifying. May I ask what you think of the video, or would you rather stay clear of this one? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pam Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Thanks for clarifying. May I ask what you think of the video, or would you rather stay clear of this one? :) Because we are only seeing what happened during this 7 minutes and nothing about what caused this to begin with, I can't really form an opinion. Backroads, AngelMarvel and prisonchaplain 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't have an opinion on the bit about using physical force to subdue either... Seemed like a lot of these kids weren't exactly interested in cooperating. I do have a problem with an officer drawing a gun when nobody's life is in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 I do have a problem with an officer drawing a gun when nobody's life is in danger. Um... Could you explain exactly how you can tell when nobody's life is in danger? Or do you mean this instead: "I do have a problem with an officer drawing a gun when there is no obvious, immediate threat to anyone's life." Two very different things, ya know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unixknight Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 Um... Could you explain exactly how you can tell when nobody's life is in danger? Or do you mean this instead: "I do have a problem with an officer drawing a gun when there is no obvious, immediate threat to anyone's life." Two very different things, ya know... Sure, that's fine, so long as the purpose of rephrasing it isn't meant to provide some wiggle room to play apologist. From watching the video, it looks like he was doing it to intimidate, not prepare for a threat. He only had it out for a moment, long enough to scatter that group of kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpiritDragon Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 It's easy to make snap judgments and consider the actions of others a certain way, but only the officer himself, who does appear to be overly aggressive, knows what was going on in his own mind. Maybe he's a bad cop with a racist agenda and this was an opportunity for him to act out. Maybe he is an average cop having a bad day. Maybe he's a hero being targeted as a villain. The teens didn't seem too cooperative in many cases and while I think they may have responded better if he'd kept his cool they also need to own up to the fact that they were completely refusing to acknowledge an officer of the law and were showing no respect. I couldn't see very well just what was going on when he engaged the girl and took her down. She did seem like she was being quite mouthy (which does not justify him in anyway) but also may have tried to slap him or something... I really found it out of focus and off in the corner to see what instigated this particular moment. I guess there will be an investigation that will hopefully determine what really happened. If he is found to be too unstable for police work then I imagine he'll be re-assigned or given anger management training or something. Perhaps he has ptsd and the whole thing triggered him. Any way I suppose my point is the same as what most here have already said that it's hard to really form an opinion based on partial evidence from a one-sided perspective. The video offers no context as to why the police were even there or anything. I've seen more than one account on the internet where people in the neighbourhood found that the pool was randomly the gathering place for a large party that turned into a flash-mob where a security guard had already been accosted and property was being vandalized before the police arrived. Again I don't know what the truth is, but hopefully the investigation of the suspended officer turns some truth up. As for pulling a gun on unarmed teens - I feel like they were moving in on him from an angle that would make it difficult to tell if they were armed or not. One of the boys even had his hand come back to his pocket which could have appeared to the officer as reaching for a weapon. Even without weapons he was faced with the possibility of multiple assailants at extremely close range, why was everyone getting so close were they trying to intervene or just get a better view? I can see how from the officer's perspective he was outnumbered by a group of people that were not responding to verbal warnings to stay back, so he decided to up the ante to get their attention. I can also see how to onlookers it appears that he is on a powertrip and a bit out of control. Although he may not have appeared to many to be in any danger the fact is that if things did suddenly turn violent he could have been seriously injured or killed before the other officers would've been able to run up. I'm not in law enforcement and never have been, so I don't know if he acted outside of his training or not in drawing his weapon. I do know from self defense study that he was in a potentially dangerous situation and had someone been armed he would've had real trouble. Perhaps some of you have heard of the Tueller drill - the idea is to practice drawing and firing before a training partner can run 21 feet. It is based on the finding that most people can cover this distance in close to 1 1/2 seconds which works out to be about a 50/50 toss-up between someone with a knife against a holstered gun from that distance. I share this mainly to point out that if he felt like he needed his weapon for his own personal safety he didn't have anytime to think about it, he needed to act and sort out the details after he established that his weapon was ready if needed. Again he was faced by multiple possible assailants in extremely close proximity. Not saying he was right or wrong, just looking at some perspective. Food for thought. Just_A_Guy, AngelMarvel, NightSG and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeuroTypical Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) Sure, that's fine, so long as the purpose of rephrasing it isn't meant to provide some wiggle room to play apologist. From watching the video, it looks like he was doing it to intimidate, not prepare for a threat. He only had it out for a moment, long enough to scatter that group of kids. Actually, now that I watched the video, I'm fine phrasing it either way. It amazes me how people can watch the same video and interpret it so differently. Cop subduing a girl who is resisting. Check the guy in the blue tshirt: Not a full second later, now check the guy in the blue t-shirt. Anyone see aggressive behavior? I wonder if the guy in the blue tshirt understands that reaching around behind your back when aggressively closing on a police officer is a good way to get shot. Regardless, we're still under a second of tape here, look how fast dood closed in. Dude in the blue tshirt is a clear, obvious threat. Did he just go for the cops gun? Is he reaching for one of his own? The deal is, the cop gets to go home at the end of the day. Blue tshirt dude needs to be dealt with. Cop isn't trying to intimidate - he's drawing his weapon as a result as tshirt dude's aggressive behavior. I mean, I'm glad nobody got shot. But if I had a kid and watched him do what blue tshirt dude just did, he would be washing this cop's car every week for a full year, just in order to win back his iphone. He's lucky he didn't get his fool idiot aggressive butt shot off - one tenth of a second more aggressive behavior out of him, if he hadn't run away like that and the cop dropped him, I doubt America could find a jury able to convict the cop of any sort of wrongdoing. Edited June 8, 2015 by NeuroTypical Backroads, unixknight, bytor2112 and 5 others 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytor2112 Posted June 8, 2015 Report Share Posted June 8, 2015 (edited) There is another video showing the fight at the pool by the trespassers...guess that doesn't really matter. I bet "the resident cop bashers" could have handled those poor little innocent children so much better. Some on this forum are so predictable...I knew this story would be on here with the predictable bashers. All of those bashing the cops, would have likely got your back sides kicked by those punks that absolutely would not follow any direction from the cop. The cops didn't crash the party as the title of this thread states. The police were called by the pool manangement because trespassers jumped the fence and crashed the party. Lot's more to this story....but don't let facts get in the way. Edited June 8, 2015 by bytor2112 Vort, Leah, Backroads and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 15 year old who shot Mckinney Pool Party video speaks out http://cw33.com/2015/06/08/15-year-old-who-shot-mckinney-pool-party-video-speaks-out/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LiterateParakeet Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Some on this forum are so predictable... LOL...just some? I would say most. I think we all had a pretty good idea who would comment on this...on both sides of the issue...and what they would say. It works both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 http://www.leoaffairs.com/video/5-things-didnt-know-pool-party-incident-full-video/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirkwood Posted June 9, 2015 Report Share Posted June 9, 2015 Backroads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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