Ramblings of an Estranged Saint

[Estranged]

I can’t believe I didn’t find this forum years ago. Sure wish I had. Anyway, what follows is part personal history, part confessional, part testimony, and part questionnaire.  I hope I don’t break any T&Cs in my first post.   Here goes:

 

I’m strongly considering going back to church.

 

I was born and raised in the LDS Church until the age of 11 (or thereabouts--I’m 36 now), when my parents, both converts of several years prior to my birth, decided to leave the church for reasons that I suppose are typical: being offended by self-righteous members, seeing Jack Mormons (and worse) in the temple, that sort of thing. I’m sure most of you have heard that tune before.

 

I remember them telling me that just because they weren’t going to church anymore didn’t mean that I had to stop too. In fact, they even said they would be my “Sunday chauffeurs” if I wanted to go. Their reasons for leaving are theirs and I respect that, just as they would have respected any decision I made (or make now). I love my parents deeply (my father passed several years ago) and that will never change, regardless of my religion.

 

Now, as a youth I had never been that interested in attending church in the first place. I would go through intermittent phases of interest and disinterest, although I generally resisted my parents’ insistence on Sunday attendance and sometimes resented the sanctity of the Sabbath (“But all the kids at school can!”). But, speaking of school, I felt the same way about it—didn’t want to go.  It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that I have some issues with institutional authority… which could potentially be a big problem should I decide to go back to church. It’s just the way I am. I’m always seeking, and do indeed value, wise counsel, but when it ceases being counsel and becomes ultimatum… well, you get the drift. Having said that, my memories of experiences in the church are generally positive, in retrospect.

 

This is going to be a long thread, and it will be even longer if I don’t fast forward a few years. I feel like I have to get as much out as possible.

 

My senior year of college (2001) I decided to investigate the church for myself--not dissimilar to what I’m doing right now except for the means of communication. The internet was only just on the cusp of exploding into what it is today, so I did what any investigator would do and called on the missionaries. We never started the formal discussions, just had some general talks and I attended a few meetings. Long story short, I decided it just wasn’t “a good fit for me at the time”. I was a rebellious 23-year-old musician attending a PAC-10 (at the time) school… of somewhat ill-repute. I’ll give you a few guesses where my misplaced priorities lay and what bad habits I picked up along the way. Not to stereotype, but hey.

 

My son was born several months after this experience. I have never been married. My inability to cope with the reality of a situation I knew I had royally screwed up (among many other factors, but this one is big) led to a massive guilt complex and the kind of drinking problem that most people either never come back from or die trying to. I have always met my legal obligations in this regard, however my relationship with my son has never been what it could have and should have been (nor is it now, albeit vastly improved).

 

In the years that followed I worked as a semi-professional musician, then held a respectable position at a small bank for several years… until my alcoholism became too intense to conceal anymore. My relationships fell apart, my absenteeism soared, and in an economy of collapsing banks it wasn’t hard for them to let me go.That was 2011, and my chronic unemployment only made my chronic alcoholism that much worse. There was no work to occupy my time, so the nightly drinking thus became constant. It just took me over completely.

 

I truly believe that I should be dead several times over, or at the very least in prison.  Some of you may not know what a “fifth” (750mL) of rum is, but for those that do, by the time I had quit drinking I was up to a fifth-and-a-half a day. Every day. My internal organs were conspiring against me and my nervous system was starting to shut down. When I would try to quit on my own, I had the whole nightmare going—pink spiders and all. Alcohol withdrawal syndrome is Hell on Earth (to speak nothing of what I put others through), and the Word of Wisdom is no joke, my friends. Of that I can testify without reservation.

 

Then, one night, I prayed for help. I was “told” to go to AA. So I did, and haven’t had a drink since. Only this time, there were no DTs, no night terrors, no seizures. Gee, I wonder why.  God does make our burdens light, or at least bearable, if we but ask Him and do our part as well. I do still have some lingering-but-quite-manageable neurological quirks (headaches and the like), but it would be simply unreasonable to expect to come out of an experience like that unscathed. It took me another three years to quit smoking, although I hesitate to say “quit” as it has only been six months now. But it’s a start, right?

 

As for now, I’m underemployed in a job I could care less for at this point. It has served its purpose of keeping me sober through the early years of my recovery (I should note that, after praying and quitting drinking, I finally received a job offer the next day after over a year of looking—I took the gig), so for that I am grateful. But it’s time to move on.

 

And it’s also time to move on to the next step spiritually. I have always been, philosophically (but not in practice, obviously), a spiritually-minded person. There are few around me these days who share these feelings. Suffice it to say, I feel I need a community of like-minded people to make anything stick…

…which brings me to my first question: 1) Is it wrong to want to go to church for camaraderie and edification? In other words, if these things are priorities, are my priorities misaligned? Should not my devotion to Christ be my sole motivation?

 

My testimony of Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior is a bit shaky. I’m not sure that my conception of Him is what is required for membership in the church. I understand the symbolism behind the atonement (some of it anyway, I think) but I just don’t get how it could have been a literal, effective sacrifice. Or why God would require this of Him, or if He wasn’t required, why He would volunteer. I just don’t fully understand the atonement and I never have. This is one of the things I need to talk to you all about, whoever is willing.

 

There are several reasons I went into all that stuff about my alcoholism, one of which was just to get it out there for you all, and another was leading up to this concern:  As I said, I do have some lingering effects of the damage I’ve done to my body. The only effective treatment I’ve found for these symptoms is… well, let’s just say it was only recently made legal for medicinal purposes in my state. I know some of you are probably rolling your eyes at this point and thinking I’ve wasted your time with my long-winded thread. But it’s the truth, so:

 

2) Not being specifically prohibited by the Word of Wisdom, and no longer in conflict with the 12^th Article of Faith due to its legality (the federal government just recently, and quietly, passed a measure whereby they will no longer interfere with state laws regarding prohibition or lack thereof), can I use this medicine and still be in good standing with the church (i.e., hold a Temple Recommend)?

 

I’m not trying to bait anyone. I am truly sincere when I ask this, and it greatly concerns me. I’ve read on some other sites that it really just depends on who your bishop and stake president are, and whether they’ll personally allow it or not. I cannot, and will not lie to anyone about this, least of all my potential bishop. If he is a hardliner, and will not allow it, it’s going to be a big problem—it is the only thing that alleviates the symptoms I have, whether anyone chooses to believe that or not. It does not negatively affect any aspect of my life in any way. My relationships with the few people I still have relationships with are 1000% improved. I suppose it does still limit job opportunities, although that is rapidly changing as well, and it’s something I can deal with—I’ll figure it out.

 

Anyway (deep breath), that’s another one I need to chat about.  

 

3) Do I have to believe in the Book of Mormon as literal history? I do, paradoxically, have a testimony of the truths and lessons contained in the Book of Mormon, although I do not believe it is meant to be taken entirely literally, similar to the early books of the Old Testament. The Book of Mormon is actually my favorite and most valued religious text (and I’ve studied many of them across various religious traditions). In many ways I believe it is actually a prophecy for what is happening to our society on this continent right now.

 

Question 3 can also be applied to the books contained in the Pearl of Great Price. I just don’t know.

 

Those are really the Big Three questions/concerns I have—the things I need to talk about if anyone has the time and the inclination. The typical criticisms one hears of the church, its past and present leaders, and its history really don’t concern me as much as detractors would like them to. And believe me I’ve heard them all, and studied them all. There’s no need to bring them up here, although I’m sure at some point I’ll want to discuss some of them. Most of are either fabrications, distortions, or completely irrelevant to my spiritual development.

 

To anyone who has read through all of this, thank you. I’ve tried to articulate my feelings as best I can for being up all night (I had surgery yesterday, nothing serious, and spent most of the day recovering from the anesthesia; hence, up all night).

 

I would like to extend my sincere condolences to the moderator who has to read through and approve/reject my first post… if I’ve even put it in the right forum.  But I’ve written enough. Thank you all for your time, and may the Lord bless you. All of your thoughts and prayers are invaluable.

 

-Estranged

[Windseeker]

1) Is it wrong to want to go to church for camaraderie and edification? In other words, if these things are priorities, are my priorities misaligned? Should not my devotion to Christ be my sole motivation?

 

My testimony of Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior is a bit shaky. I’m not sure that my conception of Him is what is required for membership in the church. I understand the symbolism behind the atonement (some of it anyway, I think) but I just don’t get how it could have been a literal, effective sacrifice. Or why God would require this of Him, or if He wasn’t required, why He would volunteer. I just don’t fully understand the atonement and I never have. This is one of the things I need to talk to you all about, whoever is willing.

 

Welcome Estranged!

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with attending church for Camaraderie and Edification. Certainly Sunday service as well as our Home Teaching program is there to help fulfill our social needs. We also go to Church to learn. So I don't find a problem with your motivation. I do think you nailed the highest reason to attend and that is to demonstrate our devotion to our Savior. We do this by partaking of the Sacrament which will have more meaning as  you come to understand and apply the atonement. 

 

Regarding the atonement. I've grown up in the Church and have always been mostly active. I never really grasped the importance of the atonement until recently and even at that I feel I've just scratched the surface of something that could take a lifetime to understand.

 

I'm sure there are others that can explain the atonement better but I would recommend studying Alma Chapter 34.

 

This is also a pretty good video that explains it's called the Mediator based on a talk given by Elder Boyd K Packer who recently passed away. 

 

I've had my share of challenges in my life. It was those challenges that made central to my life, principles that never meant much to me previously, namely free agency, forgiveness and the atonement. Understanding what agency is and why it's important can help you understand the atonement and the same with forgiveness. 

 

One book that has really brought these principles together for me is called The God Who Weeps. I can't recommend this enough. It's not very long but really puts life in perspective and helped drive my desire to grow closer to my Heavenly Father and to appreciate my Savoir.

 

Anyway hope you stick around. What kind of music to you play?

[Guest]

WELCOME Estranged!

 

1.)  The Church is not intended to be a Church for perfect people.  Rather, it is a church where imperfect people come together to try to change and get closer to perfection.  Therefore, if one's reason to attend church is because it is the middle of summer and it is the only place with good A/C and soft seats to take a rest... WELCOME!  What we try to do as a Church is lift up everybody - including the guy who just went there for the A/C... that he may find himself desiring to be closer to Christ.

 

2.)  Smoking is against the Word of Wisdom.  Smoking marijuana for medicinal purposes as prescribed by a doctor is in that gray area where you'll need to talk to your Bishop to get advice tailored specifically to your case and it is up to him to decide if that still qualifies you for a temple recommend.  That said, marijuana comes in a lot more forms than just smoking the leaves within the medical community.  In Florida, for example, smoking marijuana is illegal but Charlotte's Web and SB1700 - specific strains of marijuana used for medicinal purposes that are high in cannabidiol (the medicinal compound) but low in tetrahydrocannabinol (the compound that produces a "high") are legal.  These medicines are distributed in vapor or oil form.  This delivers the medicine without the nasty effect on the lungs that smoking provides and it can be better regulated by the primary care physician.

 

3.)  The Book of Mormon is another Testament of Christ.  Whether it is literal history or not is not the point of the book.

[Backroads]

1. My grandmother attended church for over 50 years for social reasons and inspiration. She did eventually gain a true testimony and went through the temple a few years back, but even if she had continued as she had there was nothing wrong with it.

2. Grey area, ask bishop for personalized advice.

3. I think the Biggie here is getting a witness of the book's truth, whatever defines that truth.

[Str8Shooter]

Answer to question #1:  No.  It is not wrong to go for those reasons.  In fact, I don't know if there really is a reason not to go to church unless you are violent, contagious, or disruptive.  Always go to church.  My reasons for going to church have changed for the better over the years and part of the reason why they changed is because I kept going.

 

#2:  This is a tough one, my friend.  The laws of the land have no authority on the laws of God.  This gives the 12th Article of Faith conditions.  For example, abortion is legal here, but the Church is adamantly against it and will in no way ever support it except in extreme and very rare circumstances.  When it comes to medical marijuana and it's use, it is between you and your priesthood leaders.  Some say absolutely not.  Some say yes, but you cannot smoke it.  It just depends.  Even if you are told no, keep coming to church!

 

#3:  Yes.  You need to have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.  Read it.  Read it every day.  You don't have to read it all it order, but read it.  Pray about it and you will get an answer.  Then comes the hard part.  Once you get an answer, you must have the courage to act.  You must be able to withstand mocking from your friends of family, the buffetings of Satan, and all sorts of other things.  Basically, you must be able to be willing to virtually stand with the Savior.  As you do this, the blessings will come during and especially after your trials.

 

I have one more piece of advice.  When you say, "I’m strongly considering going back to church.", Satan hates that.  He despises it.  The last thing he wants is someone to begin the road back to God.  If he hasn't already, he is going to start working on you a bit harder.  He is going to place more doubts in your road.  He is going to bring back old vices and temptations to try to get you to move off the road or quit.  Don't ever quit!  If you slide off the road, get up, dust yourself off and get back at it.  It's not easy, but it is so worth it every single bit.  Humbly pray for strength and put Satan in his place.

 

Also remember that people are human and make mistakes.  No church member is perfect, even if it seems like it on the outside.  If someone says something offensive (it will happen) let it go.  You will hear false (and weird) doctrine that is not true.  If you have questions, always ask someone, especially the Bishop.

 

I wish you the best.  I know this church is true.  It has changed the life of my family and myself.  I'm not just saying that as a cliche either.  We are so much happier now.  We feel complete and whole.

 

Stick with it.  It really is worth it.

[pkstpaul]

Your story is like many others. Nobody is expected to wipe their slate clean before attending church. As long as you don't come in spouting off conflicting doctrine or intentionally challenging standard beliefs or cultural norms, you should find yourself very welcome. Some examples: Don't come in trying to explain to people why you smoke pot. Nobody cares (well, they 'care') and nobody really wants to know, until such time as you are seeking assistance in dealing with it. Don't justify your inactivity past or present. Don't challenge dress code (often a cultural thing). Don't brag about a new tatoo.

 

Basically, ease yourself into the environment and quietly obsorb things. You are entering a still lake and splashing around will be noticed. But understand, there are people all around you who have a story much like your own and either worked past it or are now working with it.

 

Welcome.

[Jane_Doe]

Estrange, welcome to the site and thank you for your wonderful testimony.  I would love to have you in my ward.

 

1.  Come to church and bring the mighty testimony of yours.  Share it with others, and let them share theirs.  In time, you'll also learn the beauty of coming to/for Christ directly.  God does not require us to have perfect faith, in fact there's a story in the scripture where Jesus is asked by a man who admittedly struggles believe to heal his (the man's) son. The man cries "Lord, help me in my unbelief".  Here's an awesome talk on that story, and I feel like is 200% up your alley:  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/lord-i-believe?lang=eng

 

2.  Gray area.  Something to be consulted with your bishop and medical doctor, not strangers on the internet.

 

3.  One should have a witness of the *truthfulness* of the Book of Mormon-- i.e., that it is God's word.  Literal belief is not required (I for one don't remotely care).

[Estranged]

I'm sure there are others that can explain the atonement better but I would recommend studying Alma Chapter 34.

 

This is also a pretty good video that explains it's called the Mediator based on a talk given by Elder Boyd K Packer who recently passed away. 

 

One book that has really brought these principles together for me is called The God Who Weeps. I can't recommend this enough. It's not very long but really puts life in perspective and helped drive my desire to grow closer to my Heavenly Father and to appreciate my Savoir.

 

Anyway hope you stick around. What kind of music to you play?

 

Thank you for the references. I just read Alma 34 again. It's amazing how the Book of Mormon gives you exactly what you need to hear exactly when you need to hear it. It's uncanny. Like no other text. I'll watch the video and check out the book later this afternoon.  :)

 

This time around I'm sticking to studying classical music theory (imagine that) instead of just focusing on writing catchy tunes and melodies. I've found that playing music for it's own sake, rather than for the foolish goals of fame and fortune, is vastly more enjoyable and fulfilling.

 

You know any hymns that would sound good transposed on guitar? 

 

Thanks again.

[Estranged]

#2:  This is a tough one, my friend.  The laws of the land have no authority on the laws of God.  This gives the 12th Article of Faith conditions.  For example, abortion is legal here, but the Church is adamantly against it and will in no way ever support it except in extreme and very rare circumstances.  When it comes to medical marijuana and it's use, it is between you and your priesthood leaders.  Some say absolutely not.  Some say yes, but you cannot smoke it.  It just depends.  Even if you are told no, keep coming to church!

 

#3:  Yes.  You need to have a testimony that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.  Read it.  Read it every day.  You don't have to read it all it order, but read it.  Pray about it and you will get an answer.  Then comes the hard part.  Once you get an answer, you must have the courage to act.  You must be able to withstand mocking from your friends of family, the buffetings of Satan, and all sorts of other things.  Basically, you must be able to be willing to virtually stand with the Savior.  As you do this, the blessings will come during and especially after your trials.

 

I have one more piece of advice.  When you say, "I’m strongly considering going back to church.", Satan hates that.  He despises it.  The last thing he wants is someone to begin the road back to God.  If he hasn't already, he is going to start working on you a bit harder.  He is going to place more doubts in your road.  He is going to bring back old vices and temptations to try to get you to move off the road or quit.  Don't ever quit!  If you slide off the road, get up, dust yourself off and get back at it.  It's not easy, but it is so worth it every single bit.  Humbly pray for strength and put Satan in his place.

 

I figured it was largely a subjective determination on whether the treatment was appropriate or not. I'm debating even volunteering the information at all, however if asked I will be truthful and stay the course (should I decide to pursue the course).

 

As for getting the devil's attention... there's not much I can do about that but pray. It's called "the dark night of the soul" in some other religious traditions, a settling of cosmic debt. I've endured it once before, so I'm somewhat prepared. I will have to stay vigilant as it will never be easy.

[Estranged]

Basically, ease yourself into the environment and quietly obsorb things. You are entering a still lake and splashing around will be noticed. But understand, there are people all around you who have a story much like your own and either worked past it or are now working with it.

 

Welcome.

 

Thank you. I have no intention of making waves. I just want to make sure I do it right, you know? I'll most likely keep my medical information private until (and if) asked, and of course would never let any young people know what is going on. I wouldn't do that even if taking more "legitimate" medication. In my opinion, pharmaceutical drugs are some the worst things for you. But I digress...

[Str8Shooter]

Estranged-

 

Here is a link to one of my favorite videos from the church.  If you want to, watch it when you get a chance.

 

https://youtu.be/2w49_1a9X0Q

 

 

There are a whole lot more of them.  They are called "Mormon Messages" and you can find them on YouTube.

[Estranged]

There are a whole lot more of them. They are called "Mormon Messages" and you can find them on YouTube.

 

Thanks, I can definitely relate to that one. Anything else you've got, send my way. I'm spending the weekend recovering from a procedure on my wrist, so I've got all the time in the world. :)

 

That goes for anyone else, too. I'm like a sponge this weekend.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Estranged

[thoughts]

1)   People often start out and continue for a long time because of the connections they make with people.    That eventually brings most people to a place where they also want  to improve their connections to God.

 

2)   Everyone starts somewhere with their testimonies.  And as they know more they mostly want to do better.

 

3)   An agreement not to prosecute is not the same thing as no longer being illegal.   More importantly, whether or not the baptism questions or the Word of Wisdom are ever changed to accept marijuana, there is no question  that it is a mood altering drug, and for you, that will interfere with your agency (particularly because you are known to have an addiction problem).  You are only fooling yourself to think you can substitute it for alcohol with impunity, whatever its theological implications.  

 

4)   You do not have to believe that the book of mormon or the bible stories are literal history, or have resolved what to think about the Book of Abraham anomalies.    You just have to be able to truthfully ans

wer the baptism questions.   From there, over years of study and living the commandments, your testimony of various aspects ofthe gospel will get wider and broader and more in depth.    The gospel incorporates all truth, so ultimately you will believe in truth, even what we don't know as truth today.

[Estranged]

3)   An agreement not to prosecute is not the same thing as no longer being illegal.   More importantly, whether or not the baptism questions or the Word of Wisdom are ever changed to accept marijuana, there is no question  that it is a mood altering drug, and for you, that will interfere with your agency (particularly because you are known to have an addiction problem).  You are only fooling yourself to think you can substitute it for alcohol with impunity, whatever its theological implications. 

 

Hm. My apologies beforehand...

 

I have a few problems with this. Most importantly, you are assuming (based on what facts, I have no idea) that I am using marijuana as a substitution for alcohol. I raised this concern to my doctor (you know, the licensed medical professional who wrote me a legal prescription), as the last thing I wanted was to be free of one chain only to be shackled by another. Marijuana is nothing like alcohol, and does not work on the brain in the same way.

 

I suppose I'm a little insulted by your insinuation. I spent more time and effort than few here can appreciate trying to rid myself of addiction, and yet here I stand accused of it by someone I have come to for help and advice.

 

This is the kind of thing that has kept me away from the church for so long. I come for counsel and I get judgment. I didn't ask for marijuana. It was prescribed. If my history of addiction could be a potential problem, it wouldn't have happened.

 

I dunno man. If I have to go through life totally miserable because my church won't let me take the medicine prescribed by my doctor (or worse yet, go through life a liar)...

 

...that doesn't exactly make me want to go to church.

 

When did you guys turn into Christian Scientists?

 

I knew this was a bad idea...

Edited August 13, 2015 by Estranged

[Vort]

Estranged, you asked for opinions. You got them. Some of them you perhaps liked, others not. But now you're going to get huffy and say "I knew they were judgmental jerks!" just because someone said something you didn't like?

 

Maybe the problem doesn't lie with the "judgmental jerks". Maybe it lies with you. And if it does, that is actually good, because it's something you can change. If I'm a jerk, you are helpless to change that. But if you're taking offense wrongly, you can correct that.

 

Just something to consider.

[bytebear]

I look at it like this. You made some poor choices which led to some more poor choices, and now you are living with the consequences of them.  I think you just need to accept the possibility that some blessings of the church may have to wait.  I don't know what decisions will be made, but I do know that the church, the bishop, the "rules" are all meant to lead us to greater things, even if those things are delayed until we are ready for them.   So, do what you can.  Participate as much as you can.  And focus on the things that you know are important, like your relationship with your son and surrounding yourself with people who lift you up.   I promise you, we're here to help.

[Estranged]

I look at it like this. You made some poor choices which led to some more poor choices, and now you are living with the consequences of them.  I think you just need to accept the possibility that some blessings of the church may have to wait.  I don't know what decisions will be made, but I do know that the church, the bishop, the "rules" are all meant to lead us to greater things, even if those things are delayed until we are ready for them.   So, do what you can.  Participate as much as you can.  And focus on the things that you know are important, like your relationship with your son and surrounding yourself with people who lift you up.   I promise you, we're here to help.

 

I get it. It's all my fault. The Atonement doesn't apply to me because I've made too many mistakes.

 

Is that what you're saying?

 

ETA: By the way, I fully accept that I am in my situation because of the poor choices I have made. I do not deny that, and do not blame anyone else.

 

But my question still stands. Does the Atonement have limitations?

Edited August 13, 2015 by Estranged

[bytebear]

Is that what I said?  I don't think so.  But everyone lives with the consequences of their actions.  Perhaps you should study the parable of the Prodical Son.

Edited August 13, 2015 by bytebear

[Estranged]

Is that what I said?  I don't think so.  But everyone lives with the consequences of their actions.  Perhaps you should study the parable of the Prodical Son.

 

If the consequences of those actions result in a person's being forbidden to receive Christ's blessings, that would seem to indicate that the Atonement is not universal.

 

I've stopped the sin. I've repented for the sin. The Holy Ghost has witnessed forgiveness to me.

 

The only thing in the way is the Church.

 

Sigh. I need some sleep...

[bytebear]

You aren't forbidden from Christ's blessings.  Baptism and the temple are covenants you make with God.  The church has an obligation to ensure that you enter those covenants when you are ready to live them. 

 

• Moroni 6:2

  2 Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins.
   

   

  • Doctrine and Covenants 20:37

    37 And again, by way of commandment to the church concerning the manner of baptism—All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and witness before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church.

 

But, again study the parable of the Prodigal Son.  We rejoice at your return.  We give you the promise of all of your inheritance. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by bytebear

[Josiah]

Str8Shooter nailed it back in post #5.

 

 If someone says something offensive (it will happen) let it go.

 

Hmm, prophetic. How'd you know Str8? 

 

Seriously though, don't get too worked up over stuff people say, especially on the internet. There's basically always miscommunication somewhere rather than bad intent. And that all applies doubly when controversial/political stuff like medical marijuana is involved. Listen to the 10 or so others here who told you that the bishop can advise you on this issue based on your individual circumstances.

 

I've got some vague thoughts on the Atonement and some of your concerns running through my brain as well. It's getting really late though, so I'll come back tomorrow sometime and see if I can get a coherent post together then. For now, welcome!

[Capitalist_Oinker]

I don't mean for this to be a thread-jack, but I'll be danged if I can figure out how a person can have a testimony of the BOM without believing that it is literal history? 

With the exception of obvious allegory, (Jacob 5 for instance), what parts should NOT be considered literal?? 

[mrmarklin]

I get it. It's all my fault. The Atonement doesn't apply to me because I've made too many mistakes.

 

Is that what you're saying?

 

ETA: By the way, I fully accept that I am in my situation because of the poor choices I have made. I do not deny that, and do not blame anyone else.

 

But my question still stands. Does the Atonement have limitations?

 

 

The atonement has no limitations.

 

Go to church.  No one expects your crises to be wiped away immediately.  Simply by being there you will be able to feel more spiritual and gradually lift yourself up to a point higher than you are now, and maybe higher than ever.

 

Socializing with reasonable members can help with all the above.  There are plenty of self righteous jerks in the Church, but a lot who are not as well.  Of course you know which ones to cultivate!;-)

[The Folk Prophet]

I dunno man. If I have to go through life totally miserable because my church won't let me take the medicine prescribed by my doctor (or worse yet, go through life a liar)...

 

There was a time when doctors prescribed alcohol for various purposes, was there not? How would you advise someone asking if they should use alcohol on their doctor's recommendation?

 

I knew this was a bad idea...

 

I get it. It's all my fault. The Atonement doesn't apply to me because I've made too many mistakes.

 

Dude...some serious chips on your shoulder here. Overreact much?

 

It's hard to offer help to someone who's going to react so defensively to what, as near as I can tell, have been quite moderate responses.

[cdowis]

"There are a hundred reasons to leave the church, and only one reason to stay."