Do you ever worry you won't make it to the Celestial Kingdom?

[char713]

How?

 

Well, I don't know if it matters, but has anyone noticed how the OP hasn't responded again since posting her original question? Maybe because the first response she got was a correction of her question, rather than a response to what I assume is the OP's main point "how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty" (emphasis added.)

 

This is the same problem that I have had with this particular section of the forum. She asked a question that springs at least partly from normal human insecurity. How about instead of automatically assuming that she doesn't know the doctrine, how about you answer her question as she posed it? Whatever happens after that happens, but at least you can say that your first response was nothing less than thoughtful and charitable. There are several people who did respond this way, I'm not saying this applies to everyone. 

Edited August 31, 2015 by char713

[Guest]

Even with my optimism, if you consider the fact that half of Mormons worldwide are inactive and, of the active ones, probably 30-40% are not living worthily of a temple recommend (e.g., pornography, not paying tithing, etc.), you can see how it is possible that the majority of Mormons may wind up in the Terrestrial Kingdom.

 

Of course, probably only a minority of Mormons who care enough to worry about missing the Celestial Kingdom will actually miss it.

Edited August 31, 2015 by DoctorLemon

[char713]

As for my own thoughts on the matter:

 

I remember reading once about a study that was to do with parents who read parenting books versus those who don't. Researchers were headed toward the conclusion that the parenting books were somehow making people better parents. But in reality, it is the kind of person who would seek out and read a parenting book who would make a better parent, simply because they are concerned enough to try. People who don't see a problem are unlikely to ever try to fix it. 

 

In short, it's a good thing if you are concerned. Chances are, that means you are exercising humility. And that humility will enable you to accomplish just about any spiritual feat you set your mind and prayers to. 

[james12]

Well, I don't know if it matters, but has anyone noticed how the OP hasn't responded again since posting her original question? Maybe because the first response she got was a correction of her question, rather than a response to what I assume is the OP's main point "how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty" (emphasis added.)

Simple, ask God if you will make it to the celestial kingdom and keep seeking until he tells you you will make it. 

[The Folk Prophet]

Well, I don't know if it matters, but has anyone noticed how the OP hasn't responded again since posting her original question? Maybe because the first response she got was a correction of her question, rather than a response to what I assume is the OP's main point "how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty" (emphasis added.) 

 

By which you mean to say that it is due to this that I am unworthy of the Celestial Kingdom.

 

Thanks.

[char713]

By which you mean to say that it is due to this that I am unworthy of the Celestial Kingdom.

 

Thanks.

I'm sorry that I gave you that impression. That was not what I was trying to say at all. 

 

You have yourself said that what matters more to you than individual feelings and opinions are the laws and doctrine... or maybe it is that you acknowledge that that is the impression you apparently give to others but don't know what to do about it. If I could remember where I read that comment from you is I would quote it. Here, you asked in response to Traveler, how one might show it more if they do in fact have the celestial formula figured out. I'm saying that that is one way in which we all might show it more. It is more important to be good than to be kind, but if we can be both I think that is about as Celestial as a human being can get. 

[Anddenex]

If you only made it to the terrestrial or telestial kingdom would you feel like you had failed? If you aren't sure you would make it to the Celestial Kingdom, how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty?

 

The answer to your first question, for me, would be an astounding "YES." I would most certainly be disappointed and I definitely would have failed.  I would gnash my teeth.

 

I would honestly be shocked if there was one individual on this earth, knowing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, who has not felt unsure, and must deal with this uncertainty -- despondency.  In my youth, and even now, I could say I have made some decisions that cause me grief.  This grief causes me to reflect upon my bodies intelligence (light and truth).  I remember speaking with a bishop of mine and asking this same question, as I would say, "I truly saw myself" (my carnal nature).

 

My bishop at this time asked me two questions, "When was the last time you received revelation?  When was the last time that the Spirit entered your body and provided you with enlightenment?"  At that time, I had been receiving what I would consider many revelations, and answered in kind.  He then said, "Then you have no need to worry.  The Spirit is part of the Godhead, and cannot dwell in a unclean temple. If you have have the Spirit enter your body, you have been cleaned (justified / sanctified) and where he can dwell you can dwell."  

 

At first my unspoken thought, "What a kind bishop, not sure if he is telling me the truth or just simply providing me comfort," and comfort it brought; although, I didn't quite fully accept what he said.  Until, one morning of personal scripture study I read this verse, Mosiah 4: 24, "And behold, even at this time, ye have been calling on his name, and begging for a remission of your sins. And has he suffered that ye have begged in vain? Nay; he has poured out his Spirit upon you, and has caused that your hearts should be filled with joy, and has caused that your mouths should be stopped that ye could not find utterance, so exceedingly great was your joy."

 

I had been calling for a remission of sins.  I had been begging.  How then do I know that my plea wasn't in vain?  He poured out his Spirit upon me and had caused that my heart was filled with joy through many revelations he had given me.  Even at that time, my heart ringed out and I praised God for his Son! I was forgiven.  Later, I discovered that my heart did not recognize 17 verses earlier in Mosiah 4:3, that a second witness was given, "the Spirit of the Lord came upon them...filled with joy...received a remission of sins...having a peace of conscience."  I received a peace of conscience...feeling like Nephi -- knowing in whom I have placed my trust, the anchor of the souls of men (Ether 12: 4).  Thus, faith, hope, and charity lead us all into good works, or simply unto Christ.  

 

How do I cope?  I simply ask, what revelation have I received, and did it cause my heart to rejoice leading to a peace of conscience knowing whom I trust?  If I can answer yes, then I know I am filled with Celestial light/intelligence.  If not, then I have need to repent, make changes, until I can receive the Spirit of the Lord and be filled with joy.  Joy does not equate with pleasure.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Anddenex

[sgedster]

No because God will put you in the kingdom where you would be most happiest If i were living in sin I can tell you I wouldn't be happy living with all the super duper to gooders in heaven.

on a side note Truman Madsen speaking on this subject spoke about being sealed o individuals who had not lived worthily enough to inherit the celestial kingdom  and he used a quote by Joseph Smith that went along the lines of by virtue of the sealing power when God choose to send a message to someone in a lower kingdom whom will he choose to send. if you think about hat God is more likely to send someone of a higher kingdom to whom you are directly sealed to rather than some random individual

[sxfritz]

Well, I don't know if it matters, but has anyone noticed how the OP hasn't responded again since posting her original question? Maybe because the first response she got was a correction of her question, rather than a response to what I assume is the OP's main point "how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty" (emphasis added.)

 

This is the same problem that I have had with this particular section of the forum. She asked a question that springs at least partly from normal human insecurity. How about instead of automatically assuming that she doesn't know the doctrine, how about you answer her question as she posed it? Whatever happens after that happens, but at least you can say that your first response was nothing less than thoughtful and charitable. There are several people who did respond this way, I'm not saying this applies to everyone. 

Thank you!!  This happens way too often.

[sxfritz]

If you only made it to the terrestrial or telestial kingdom would you feel like you had failed? If you aren't sure you would make it to the Celestial Kingdom, how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty?

I don't worry. I envision the goal. I plan for the goal. I know I fall short, but I appreciate the promise of he atonement. I don't think of it as a safety net, but instead know that I am cared for and the plan is for my shortfalls to be made up - even if it doesn't mean making the Celestial Kingdom. Until then, I study my science and practice my math because, yes, there will be work in heaven.  (see Chapter 16 of Wind of Fire - basically the principle of the book).   :)

[omegaseamaster75]

 the Church is set up very well so one can kind of know how well they are doing.

 

A real good guide to whether someone is worthy to go to the Celestial Kingdom is if someone has a temple recommend and is actually living worthily of it and endures to the end (since the recommend, in and of itself, is meaningless without the holder being truly worthy).  Yes, some people with temple recommends will not make it for reasons explained below, but I think it is probable that a huge majority of recommend holders who are worthy will make it, assuming they stay worthy. 

 

 

Holding a temple recommend signifies the ability to look at your stake president in the face and answer the questions he asks and jump through the LDS hoops. I agree that holding a temple recommend is no measuring stick. I would say that it is a lead indicator because you have to follow through with so much for it to be meaningful.

 

 

The Terrestrial Kingdom is where basically good people go who are not otherwise worthy to go to the Celestial Kingdom, including perhaps a majority of Americans, maybe?  

 

What about Mexicans?

 

 

 

 Regarding church members, some things that I have heard will get you sent to the Terrestrial Kingdom include being inactive, failing to pay a full and honest tithe, breaking the word of wisdom, and being lukewarm (which I have heard is defined as members who completely and utterly refuse to do their share in furthering the mission of the work- e.g., utterly and completely refusing to magnify their callings).  I wonder if pornography use, if unconquered, could lead here?

 

 I wouldn't lump inactives into the terrestrial, we don't know the burdens that others carry, I wouldn't lump non "full tithe payers in it either" By whose definition is a tithing full? We have a mandate but interpretation is so open and broad we cannot judge on this earth. You also state breaking the word of wisdom. This wasn't a temple recommend question until the early 1900's and then not strictly enforced. This is a recent change in church policy. Lest anyone get me wrong I support the WOW and obey it, but I (the gospel according to Omega) think that there will be leniency regarding this.

 

My point being we will be surprised by who is there and shocked by who isn't. Nothing on this earth can indicate to us in our mortal existence where we will end up (there are small exceptions).

Edited September 1, 2015 by omegaseamaster75

[Irishcolleen]

Thank you for your thoughtful answers. I have been trying to understand the spiritual struggles people have.  This fall, while my mother and I were visiting my aunt we came across a Mass card for my grandmother (my mom was raised Catholic).  The wording was so sad, like their was so much uncertainty of heaven.  It got me wondering how people of other denominations emotionally/spiritually deal with thoughts of the afterlife.

 

I am, of course, of the once saved always saved belief.  This is not a "cheap grace" as my salvation was very costly. Being free from worry about where I will spend eternity helps me adore God more than I ever did in the past. It frees me to become more like Christ because of my adoration of Him. 

 

I was wondering if uncertainty over eternity makes a person work (be good, serve, etc...) out of fear of "not making it" instead of working out of love. It seems there are a lot of different responses.  I do thank you for the insight you have given me.  I enjoy discussions where I can learn about others without the arguments that other web forums have.

[Traveler]

Thank you for your thoughtful answers. I have been trying to understand the spiritual struggles people have.  This fall, while my mother and I were visiting my aunt we came across a Mass card for my grandmother (my mom was raised Catholic).  The wording was so sad, like their was so much uncertainty of heaven.  It got me wondering how people of other denominations emotionally/spiritually deal with thoughts of the afterlife.

 

I am, of course, of the once saved always saved belief.  This is not a "cheap grace" as my salvation was very costly. Being free from worry about where I will spend eternity helps me adore God more than I ever did in the past. It frees me to become more like Christ because of my adoration of Him. 

 

I was wondering if uncertainty over eternity makes a person work (be good, serve, etc...) out of fear of "not making it" instead of working out of love. It seems there are a lot of different responses.  I do thank you for the insight you have given me.  I enjoy discussions where I can learn about others without the arguments that other web forums have.

 

Dear Irish,

 

I am of a slightly different mind in this manner than you.  I am of the mind that uncertainty is a very important and necessary part of our journey - not just through life but as we learn and draw closer to G-d.  It comes from my scientific background that the more you know the more you realize what you don't know.  But also from my religious background - specifically as Jesus sat with his most loyal and closest disciples at the last supper. 

 

Jesus mentioned that one among them would betray him - I see this very much related to the question of if someone is going to make it to heaven.  These great disciples did not sit back with the idea that it certainly could not be them - they were saved and knew Jesus and loved him.  Each asked, "L-rd is it I?"  Every one of them doubted themselves.

 

Also my personal life experience when dealing with things important and critical - those that say, "Don't worry about a thing - I've got this." - actually worry me the most.  My greatest concern is that they really do not understand all that is at stake and how important this is and what is actually necessary to accomplish the task.

 

Those the proceed with important tasks with some fear and interpretation, double and triple checking every possible angle and always asking if there is something that has been missed.  I would much rather put my faith in them.

 

Of course that person that blinks at the problem and say they have no idea but what the heck lets try this and see what happens - yeah, they scare me the most.

[james12]

Thank you for your thoughtful answers. I have been trying to understand the spiritual struggles people have.  This fall, while my mother and I were visiting my aunt we came across a Mass card for my grandmother (my mom was raised Catholic).  The wording was so sad, like their was so much uncertainty of heaven.  It got me wondering how people of other denominations emotionally/spiritually deal with thoughts of the afterlife.

 

I am, of course, of the once saved always saved belief.  This is not a "cheap grace" as my salvation was very costly. Being free from worry about where I will spend eternity helps me adore God more than I ever did in the past. It frees me to become more like Christ because of my adoration of Him. 

 

I was wondering if uncertainty over eternity makes a person work (be good, serve, etc...) out of fear of "not making it" instead of working out of love. It seems there are a lot of different responses.  I do thank you for the insight you have given me.  I enjoy discussions where I can learn about others without the arguments that other web forums have.

There is a method to gain eternal life. One must progress from uncertainty to surety about his or her standing before God. This does not come in a moment but comes line upon line, step by step. We must bind our self to the Lord by receiving his promises until nothing can shake us. It starts with baptism and progresses as we receive the patriarchal priesthood and are sealed up unto this order by the power of Elias. We must then move onward to receive our calling and election made sure, by the power of Elijah. If we reach such a state nothing but denying the Holy Ghost or murder can separate us from eternal life. Then comes Messiah last of all to give us the blessings promised. 

 

This is the way to reach eternal life. Each step we grow in confidence and conviction. The world knows little of it. Some say once saved always saved but despite the words have not followed the process in order to obtain it. Joseph Smith put it in the correct light when he said: 

Here is the doctrine of Election that the world has quarreled so much about, but they do not know any thing about it. The doctrine that the Prysbeterians & Methodist have quarreled so much about once in grace always in grace, or falling away from grace I will say a word about. They are both wrong, truth takes a road between them both. For while the Presbyerian says once in grace you cannot fall the Methodist says you can have grace today, fall from it to morrow, next day have grace again and so follow it. But the doctrine of the scriptures and the spirit of Elijah would show them both false and take a road between them both for according to the scriptures if a man has received the good word of God and tasted of the powers of the world to come if they shall fall away it is impossible to renew them again. ...So there is a possibility of falling away you could not be reneved again, and the power of Elijah cannot seal against this sin, for this is a reserve made in the saels and power of the priesthood. (Words of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Wilford Woodruff Diary, 10 March 1844)

 

Move from grace to grace until you obtain the promise directly from God for yourself. Until you have such a promise doubt will remain and where doubt is there faith is not.  

[Finrock]

The more I allow myself to become like Christ, the more I feel like I am in the Celestial Kingdom already.

 

-Finrock

[Str8Shooter]

worst case scenario you end up in the telestial...I hear it's still pretty good

 

I don't think it's as good as some think it is.  

 

If you like hanging out with liars, sorcerers, adulterers, whoremongers, and all others who are thrust down to hell, then I guess it's pretty good.

 

I feel the defining factor between Celestial glory and the other glories is if someone is valiant in their testimony.  It's totally not my call in any way, but I feel that if we receive the necessary ordinances and are valiant in our testimonies we are going to fulfill our destiny of Celestial glory.    

 

We are all destined for Celestial glory, every single one of us.  No one came down to earth to obtain the lower kingdoms and I mean no one.  If anyone thinks they aren't going to make it or that they are not good enough STOP IT!!!  It is a lie from the devil himself that he is whispering in your ear.  

 

Some people have to do a lot to obtain eternal life.  Some people have to do very little.  None of us know which it is so don't worry, repent, work hard, have faith, ask for help, and smile. 

[Traveler]

Either place you end up, there are going to be some things that are great, and others not so much so.   In the terrestrial/telestial you will be depressed because you are not sealed to a family, but relieved that you are not carrying the burden of the world on your shoulders. 

 

 

I don't think it is a choice.  We are eternal, uncreated beings.  There are the greater intelligences, and the lesser ones - not God's fault for who we are, He did not create us...

 

My father often told me, "Never be surprised when you end up where you are going."  I agree with Folk Prophet - the Celestial Kingdom is a choice not winning the lottery.  But it is a choice that we make step by step through eternity - not so much a destination achieved.  We began our choices for the Celestial - or other kingdoms - long before we came to earth in what we call, our first estate.  Mortality is just another necessary transition to Celestial immortality.  We are on a course and journey that as we follow - step by step - we will transition to another state - one of which can be Celestial.  But we need to understand that such a transition is still not "the end" but only a continuation of an eternal process that we began with G-d our heavenly Father - a very long long time ago.

[hagoth]

If you only made it to the terrestrial or telestial kingdom would you feel like you had failed? If you aren't sure you would make it to the Celestial Kingdom, how do you handle that feeling of uncertainty?

I frankly don't see why we should care where we're called to serve. If God decided to send me to hell, I would hope I'd sustain his decision, roll up my sleeves, and patiently get to work.

 

As Joseph said, "...And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it."

Edited September 7, 2015 by hagoth