Praying to Jesus

[carlimac]

One thing that occurred to me in pondering my relationship with Jesus Christ is that it is hard to develop a strong relationship with someone if you don't communicate with them. We are taught to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. So I don't feel that I ever really communicate directly with Jesus.  Does this mean that Jesus also hears our prayers? Does he answer them? Can someone shed light on this for me? 

[Vort]

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_relationship-lord/

This address includes these insights by Elder McConkie:

We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

[...]

There are yet others who have an excessive zeal which causes them to go beyond the mark. Their desire for excellence is inordinate. In an effort to be truer than true they devote themselves to gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous.

I say perilous because this course, particularly in the lives of some who are spiritually immature, is a gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude. In other instances it leads to despondency because the seeker after perfection knows he is not living the way he supposes he should.

Another peril is that those so involved often begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed. In this connection a current and unwise book, which advocates gaining a special relationship with Jesus, contains this sentence:

"Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son."

This is plain sectarian nonsense. Our prayers are addressed to the Father, and to him only. They do not go through Christ, or the Blessed Virgin, or St. Genevieve or along the beads of a rosary. We are entitled to “come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need” (Hebrews 4:16).

And I rather suppose that he who sitteth upon the throne will choose his own ways to answer his children, and that they are numerous. Perfect prayer is addressed to the Father, in the name of the Son; and it is uttered by the power of the Holy Ghost; and it is answered in whatever way seems proper by him whose ear is attuned to the needs of his children.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Vort

[LeSellers]

What does it mean to pray "in the name of Jesus Christ"?

I believe if you answer this question, you answer yours.

Lehi

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

@LeSellers what does it mean really?  My understanding was along the lines of what Elder McConkie called sectarian nonsense.  No problem, I don't mind learning something new.  But I tried to search it on LDS.org and found nothing.  I have to say, though, the temple does lend to this interpretation...

"Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son."  

Do you know what I mean?  If not, no worries, I'll puzzle it out with my husband.

I'm familiar with the book that Elder McConkie is talking about here.  I had that book in my youth, and I loved it.  I underlined it, etc.  It has been major influence in my life. I was too young for college...so I didn't hear this talk by Elder McConkie.  I never knew he had said any such thing until about a year or two ago.  I have no regrets though.   I never, ever got the impression from this book, or my passionate study of it, that I should pray to Christ directly.  The scriptures are very clear that we are to pray to Heavenly Father and worship Heavenly Father.  

@carlimac what I did get out of that book, as I recall, is what I would say to you...don't pray to Jesus.  As Elder McConkie pointed out that is inappropriate.  But we are counseled to follow the Savior's example.  You might think of it this way...imagine a person you really respect...say Mother Theresa.  You can admire her, read about her life, and read what she wrote, and try to emulate the best parts of her.  In this way you will likely feel closer to her, although you have never actually spoken to her.  You have that to look forward to in the next life.   I think it is the same with Christ.  We can and should study His life, and His words.  Also study what others have said about him....especially our leaders.  Spencer W. Kimball said, "No matter how much we speak of him it is never enough."  We should try to emulate Him in every way.  There is a closeness that comes from that, a gratitude for His life, His sacrifice, His example.  And you can look forward to the day when you can speak to Him in the next life (or this one...if the 2nd Coming arrives in time.)  

[Sadliers]

Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost are One though three distinct individuals. A person cannot know one without knowing the other else they would not be One. If one really knows the Spirit then they will know Jesus and Father. Communication from Jesus and Father will take place less frequently than from the Spirit, but does and will happen. Those that really know the Spirit will be able to differentiate their voice as easily as the difference between their own children. It all starts with getting to truly know the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells us how that happens:

 

"If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself." (John 7:17)

 

We will "know the doctrine" is not an exaggeration or mincing of words. It is never obtained through a secular type of study but rather only through dedicated obedience to Him. That will foster the Spirit and will result in us coming to know Him and His will.

 

As for praying directly to Jesus, we are commanded by Jesus to pray to Heavenly Father. Is it wrong if we periodically have a one-on-one with Him? Of course not. Notice what happened with the Nephites. He visited them the first day and gave them the commandment to pray to Father. The next day He appears again, as promised, and commanded them to pray. They obey but rather than praying to Father, as directed just the day before, they begin praying to HIM! How did He respond to that violation of the previous day's command?

 

"19    And it came to pass that Jesus departed out of the midst of them, and went a little way off from them and bowed himself to the earth, and he said: 

22    Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them." (3 Nephi 19:19, 22)

 

Notice that Jesus did not stop them and rebuke them for failing to comply to His previous command but rather looked on their heart and was pleased with what was there.

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Sadliers

[Vort]

19 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

22    Father, thou hast given them the Holy Ghost because they believe in me; and thou seest that they believe in me because thou hearest them, and they pray unto me; and they pray unto me because I am with them." (3 Nephi 19:19, 22)

Moral: When Jesus is physically standing in front of you, pray to him. Otherwise, pray to the Father.

[Anddenex]

47 minutes ago, Sadliers said:

Notice that Jesus did not stop them and rebuke them for failing to comply to His previous command but rather looked on their heart and was pleased with what was there.

The concept of Jesus not "stopping" or "rebuking" doesn't mean the action was "right." This is no different than when a father/mother recognizes a child who attempts to do good, but does not, and the parent smiles and accepts the "intention" of the giver, even if the giver is in error.

How often have I been in my garden and one of my children pulls up a good plant. I don't rebuke and I don't stop, because I am grateful they are in the garden pulling weeds even if they pull a healthy plant thinking it is a weed. Instruction then comes later, without rebuke, knowing full well the intention was to do right.

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

10 minutes ago, Anddenex said:

Instruction then comes later, without rebuke, knowing full well the intention was to do right.

I really like that.

[LeSellers]

13 hours ago, LeSellers said:

What does it mean to pray "in the name of Jesus Christ"?

 

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

@LeSellers what does it mean really?

…

@carlimac"Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son." 

Let's consider the concept of the "power of attorney": when someone has a power of attorney, he can act and do anything (within the constraints of the PoA) and it is legally binding on the principal. We use this notion when explaining the Priesthood: "the power to act in His name". But when we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, we are doing no less, in this case, than what an elder does when he gives a blessing or a priest when he baptizes his neighbor: it is exactly as if the Lord had done it.

It's the same when we "pray in the name of Jesus Christ": our prayer is the same as if Jesus Himself had prayed the same words. The question then becomes, am I praying what Jesus would pray?

So, what does it mean to pray in the name of Jesus Christ?

Lehi

[Guest]

@carlimac,

I'd add my support of the sermon that Vort linked to.  The entire speech should be read in detail.  There is simply too much important doctrine each portion is too easy to misinterpret out of context if quoted in bits.  But I'll have to add another important quotation.  We need to remember that our worship is most complete (and I'd say most appropriate) when we worship them as one.  For they are one.

Quote

First, be it remembered that most scriptures that speak of God or of the Lord do not even bother to distinguish the Father from the Son, simply because it doesn’t make any difference which God is involved. They are one. The words or deeds of either of them would be the words and deeds of the other in the same circumstance.

Further, if a revelation comes from, or by the power of the Holy Ghost, ordinarily the words will be those of the Son, though what the Son says will be what the Father would say, and the words may thus be considered as the Father’s. Thus any feelings of love, praise, awe, or worship that may fill our hearts when we receive the divine words will be the same no matter who is thought or known to be the author of them.

...

the very moment anyone singles out one member of the Godhead as the almost sole recipient of his devotion, to the exclusion of the others, that is the moment when spiritual instability begins to replace sense and reason.

@LeSellers,

The Bible Dictionary tells us that to pray "in the name of Christ" means:

Quote

When our mind is the mind of Christ, and our wishes the wishes of Christ -- when His words abide in us.  We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant.  Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christ's name at all: they in no way represent His mind but spring out of the selfishness of man's heart.

While this has a similar definition to your power of attorney analogy, I personally think it is the other side of the coin.  i.e. -- I'm not representing Christ as I pray.  That would mean I need to know what Christ wants so I can petition for Him.  Instead, I'm trying to CHANGE myself to consider what He would pray for if He were in my place, so that He can petition for me.  A little different.

@LiterateParakeet,

Quote

"Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers go through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son."  

The way I see it is that Christ is our intermediary (and advocate) with the Father.  These are not perfect descriptions because the Father knows all.  If we pray to the Father, Jesus does not literally need to repeat everything to the Father.  Father has already heard it.  But it is simpler for our mortal minds to think of it in that way.  And as far as getting the general feel for our relationship with the Father through prayer, I suppose it is as accurate as any other way of looking at it.

One thing to consider: Joseph Smith once said that the Father and the Son are so similar in virtually all aspects that it is only through the Power of the Holy Ghost that you can truly tell them apart.  This is also another reason that the scriptures make no effort to differentiate between them.  They are one.

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by Guest

[LeSellers]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

The Bible Dictionary tells us that to pray "in the name of Christ" means:
When our mind is the mind of Christ, and our wishes the wishes of Christ -- when His words abide in us.  We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant.  Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christ's name at all: they in no way represent His mind but spring out of the selfishness of man's heart.

While this has a similar definition to your power of attorney analogy, I personally think it is the other side of the coin.  i.e. -- I'm not representing Christ as I pray.  That would mean I need to know what Christ wants so I can petition for Him.  Instead, I'm trying to CHANGE myself to consider what He would pray for if He were in my place, so that He can petition for me.  A little different.

A little, yes, but please recall that I am not trying to answer the question, but to provide a springboard for others (like you) to research and ponder what I am trying to get to.

A real answer (and you might ask your wife how I frequently ask, "Do you want the whole answer?") would take more than a few lines, more than a few pages, more than a few hours to deliver.

And I stand by my original point: if we knew what to pray in the name of Jesus Christ really means, we would not have to ask how "hard [it is] to develop a strong relationship with [Christ] if you don't communicate with [Him]."

Or so I see it.

Lehi

 

Edited March 27, 2016 by LeSellers

[Vort]

The temple rites being referenced are not models of prayer, but of divine action. Models of prayer in the temple always represent communication directly with God, not through any intermediaries.

[zil]

3 hours ago, LeSellers said:

It's the same when we "pray in the name of Jesus Christ": our prayer is the same as if Jesus Himself had prayed the same words. The question then becomes, am I praying what Jesus would pray?

 

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

The Bible Dictionary tells us that to pray "in the name of Christ" means:

Quote

When our mind is the mind of Christ, and our wishes the wishes of Christ -- when His words abide in us.  We then ask for things it is possible for God to grant.  Many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christ's name at all: they in no way represent His mind but spring out of the selfishness of man's heart.

 

...which further extends the meaning of the commandment not to use the name of Lord in vain...

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

Thanks everyone!  I can't speak for Carlimac, but I've gotten a lot out of this thread.  Very thought-provoking, thanks again!

[Guest]

17 hours ago, LeSellers said:

A little, yes, but please recall that I am not trying to answer the question, but to provide a springboard for others (like you) to research and ponder what I am trying to get to.

Don't take my comments too harshly.  I thought they showed good insight.  But as you indicated, I was expounding further off your springboard.

The part that I was raising a brow at was:

Quote

But when we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, we are doing no less, in this case, than what an elder does when he gives a blessing or a priest when he baptizes his neighbor: it is exactly as if the Lord had done it.

I see this as the other side of the coin.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Guest

[carlimac]

On 3/27/2016 at 10:31 PM, Vort said:

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_relationship-lord/

This address includes these insights by Elder McConkie:

We worship the Father and him only and no one else. We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.

 

I guess my confusion then is that the lyrics to the song written by Bruce R. McConkie are worshipful to Christ. 

Lyrics

1. 1. I believe in Christ; he is my King!
   With all my heart to him I'll sing;
   I'll raise my voice in praise and joy,
   In grand amens my tongue employ.
   I believe in Christ; he is God's Son.
   On earth to dwell his soul did come.
   He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
   Good works were his; his name be praised.
2. 2. I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
   As Mary's Son he came to reign
   'Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
   To save them from the woes of sin.
   I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
   Who did gain all his Father hath,
   Who said to men: "Come, follow me,
   That ye, my friends, with God may be."
3. 3. I believe in Christ--my Lord, my God!
   My feet he plants on gospel sod.
   I'll worship him with all my might;
   He is the source of truth and light.
   I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
   From Satan's grasp he sets me free,
   And I shall live with joy and love
   In his eternal courts above.
4. 4. I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
   From him I'll gain my fondest dream;
   And while I strive through grief and pain,
   His voice is heard: "Ye shall obtain."
   I believe in Christ; so come what may,
   With him I'll stand in that great day
   When on this earth he comes again
   To rule among the sons of men.

Edited March 28, 2016 by carlimac

[Vort]

15 minutes ago, carlimac said:

I guess my confusion then is that the lyrics to the song written by Bruce R. McConkie are worshipful to Christ. 

Lyrics

1. 1. I believe in Christ; he is my King!
   With all my heart to him I'll sing;
   I'll raise my voice in praise and joy,
   In grand amens my tongue employ.
   I believe in Christ; he is God's Son.
   On earth to dwell his soul did come.
   He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
   Good works were his; his name be praised.
2. 2. I believe in Christ; oh blessed name!
   As Mary's Son he came to reign
   'Mid mortal men, his earthly kin,
   To save them from the woes of sin.
   I believe in Christ, who marked the path,
   Who did gain all his Father hath,
   Who said to men: "Come, follow me,
   That ye, my friends, with God may be."
3. 3. I believe in Christ--my Lord, my God!
   My feet he plants on gospel sod.
   I'll worship him with all my might;
   He is the source of truth and light.
   I believe in Christ; he ransoms me.
   From Satan's grasp he sets me free,
   And I shall live with joy and love
   In his eternal courts above.
4. 4. I believe in Christ; he stands supreme!
   From him I'll gain my fondest dream;
   And while I strive through grief and pain,
   His voice is heard: "Ye shall obtain."
   I believe in Christ; so come what may,
   With him I'll stand in that great day
   When on this earth he comes again
   To rule among the sons of men.

Two observations:

1. As I quoted above, Elder McConkie did say: "We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator." So he did not disallow worship of Jesus altogether, but did affirm that "Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator."
2. As I recall, Elder McConkie, then of the Seventy (I think), read his poem in a General Conference in the early 1970s, maybe around 1972. His talk referenced above was given about ten years later. So his understanding of the nature of worship to the Father and the Son may have been somewhat clarified in his mind during that decade-long interval.

[carlimac]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

Two observations:

1. As I quoted above, Elder McConkie did say: "We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense—the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator." So he did not disallow worship of Jesus altogether, but did affirm that "Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator."
2. As I recall, Elder McConkie, then of the Seventy (I think), read his poem in a General Conference in the early 1970s, maybe around 1972. His talk referenced above was given about ten years later. So his understanding of the nature of worship to the Father and the Son may have been somewhat clarified in his mind during that decade-long interval.

"Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator."  What does this mean?  How is it any different than "adoration, devotion to, reverence for"...? It just seems we are splitting hairs. I recognize the hierarchy, so to speak, of the Godhead. God the Father came first, followed by His Son and the Holy Ghost. But how do we worship them differently in a practical sense?  ( I personally don't worship the Holy Ghost, unless trying to recognize promptings counts as a form of worship.)  

 

[Vort]

30 minutes ago, carlimac said:

"Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator."  What does this mean?  How is it any different than "adoration, devotion to, reverence for"...? It just seems we are splitting hairs. I recognize the hierarchy, so to speak, of the Godhead. God the Father came first, followed by His Son and the Holy Ghost. But how do we worship them differently in a practical sense?  ( I personally don't worship the Holy Ghost, unless trying to recognize promptings counts as a form of worship.)  

We don't pray to Jesus.

EDIT: This is not an obvious or (to me) clear-cut doctrine. Before Jesus' mortal ministry, his people did indeed pray to him (Jehovah). Alma (Jr.) prayed to Jesus to be released from spiritual damnation. Lamoni's queen, upon awakening, sang praises to Jesus in what can best be described as an ecstatic prayer. And, as has been previously noted, the Nephites themselves prayed to the resurrected Jesus while he stood in their midst.

Yet we have been commanded by Jesus himself to pray to the Father.

Yet Section 109 features Joseph Smith praying directly and openly to Jehovah.

Yet our prophet leaders have taught us that true prayer is directed to the Father, and not to the Son.

To my mind, safety lies in obedience to the teachings of our current prophets. We may suppose whatever we want about previous modes of prayer. In some (rare) instances, our theories might even be right. But as long as the prophets today tell us to pray to the Father and not the Son (or the Holy Ghost, or the Mother, or some other such idea), my family and I will abide by those teachings.

As for understanding what Elder McConkie meant in context, I commend his talk to you for listening and reading. I am sure Elder McConkie spoke for himself much more effectively than I could do in offering an apology for his words.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Vort

[Blackmarch]

On March 27, 2016 at 10:19 PM, carlimac said:

One thing that occurred to me in pondering my relationship with Jesus Christ is that it is hard to develop a strong relationship with someone if you don't communicate with them. We are taught to pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. So I don't feel that I ever really communicate directly with Jesus.  Does this mean that Jesus also hears our prayers? Does he answer them? Can someone shed light on this for me? 

Well considering that he is the one who is between us and the Father he has to know the prayers in order to do his work, and also because he does his his Father's work he ends up being part of the answer.

[spamlds]

This topic kind of has ties to another active thread in the forum about whether we worship the same God as the Evangelicals.  A common anti-Mormon trope is that Mormons believe in a "different Jesus."  When that one gets tossed out I reply that I worship the same God that Jesus did.  He prayed to the Father, thus I pray to the Father.  He told Mary when she saw him after his resurrection that he was going to ascend to "my Father and your Father, my God and your God" (John 20:17).  

Standard practice, then, is to worship and pray to the God whom Jesus worships: the Father.

That said, there have been times when prayers have been recorded that, in part, invoked the Son's blessings or pardon, such as in the dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland, Temple (D&C 109:34).  According to the heading for this section, the Prophet indicated that the prayer had been given to him by revelation.  Thus, when moved upon by the Spirit, follow the Spirit.  

[Ezra Pax]

On 3/28/2016 at 11:08 AM, Vort said:

We don't pray to Jesus.

EDIT: This is not an obvious or (to me) clear-cut doctrine. Before Jesus' mortal ministry, his people did indeed pray to him (Jehovah). Alma (Jr.) prayed to Jesus to be released from spiritual damnation. Lamoni's queen, upon awakening, sang praises to Jesus in what can best be described as an ecstatic prayer. And, as has been previously noted, the Nephites themselves prayed to the resurrected Jesus while he stood in their midst.

Yet we have been commanded by Jesus himself to pray to the Father.

Yet Section 109 features Joseph Smith praying directly and openly to Jehovah.

Yet our prophet leaders have taught us that true prayer is directed to the Father, and not to the Son.

To my mind, safety lies in obedience to the teachings of our current prophets. We may suppose whatever we want about previous modes of prayer. In some (rare) instances, our theories might even be right. But as long as the prophets today tell us to pray to the Father and not the Son (or the Holy Ghost, or the Mother, or some other such idea), my family and I will abide by those teachings.

As for understanding what Elder McConkie meant in context, I commend his talk to you for listening and reading. I am sure Elder McConkie spoke for himself much more effectively than I could do in offering an apology for his words.

Great observation. Prayer to Jesus is approved in every canonical book including in our dispensation.
One nuance is the fact that Jesus taught us to pray to the Father but at no time forbid us to pray to him. 

@Anddenex
Jesus in fact does approve of their prayers to him and tells them to continue to pray to him: “Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him; and his countenance did smile upon them… And Jesus said unto them: Pray on” (3 Nephi 19:25–26).

@carlimac 
Jesus Christ hears and answers prayers: “And again, I say unto you that ye shall not go until ye have preached my gospel in those parts, and have strengthened up the church whithersoever it is found, and more especially in Colesville; for, behold, they pray unto me in much faith” (D&C 37:2;). Again, “And for your salvation I [Jesus] give unto you a commandment, for I have heard your prayers, and the poor have complained before me, and the rich have I made, and all flesh is mine, and I am no respecter of persons” (D&C 38: 16). Jesus speaks directly to an individual and says: “I say unto you, my servant Sidney Gilbert, that I have heard your prayers; and you have called upon me that it should be made known unto you, of the Lord your God, concerning your calling and election in the church, which I, the Lord, have raised up in these last days. Behold, I, the Lord, who was crucified for the sins of the world, give unto you a commandment that you shall forsake the world (53: 1–2). Jesus’s openness to his servants’ prayers is not just for recent converts but also Church leaders: “Behold and hearken, O ye elders of my church, who have assembled yourselves together, whose prayers I have heard, and whose hearts I know, and whose desires have come up before me” (D&C 67: 1).

@ Vort
The McConkie teaching that we should not pursue a relationship with Christ has since been discarded. ("A Personal Relationship with the Savior" James E. Faust)
When I first read Bruce R McConekie’s speech I was struck with the irony of this coming from an apostle whose calling it is to be a “special witness of Christ” who has intimate interactions in a personal way with him. And yet this apostle who is meant to have a special personal relationship with Christ mocks the Saints who desire the same. He seemed to contradict himself by declaring that we need an equal relationship with the three (which itself is an impossible exact outcome) and at the same time he says that if we did, have a “special relationship” it should be with the father and our “special attention” should be with the Holy Ghost. and when he says we need to maintain a “reverential barrier between us” and God that is no invitation to come to God and draw near him.

Joseph Smith (a true prophet) told the 12: 'It is necessary that you receive the same testimony as the ancients that you see the face of God/Jesus that he lays his hands on you. It’s your duty and privilege to bear such a testimony for yourselves.' He invited all saints to have the same experiences and to seek the face of Jesus where they too could handle and see (Church History Vol 2:193-199). Jesus Christ is unique. the incarnation is what makes him accessible as an embodied (lived on our planet) God. Jesus invites us to "handle me and see," the HG and Father do not give us that invitation.

Just my thoughts

[Just_A_Guy]

I think it worth noting that Elder McConkie was addressing a very specific set of circumstances and teachings that had developed on the BYU campus.  His warning was that those who became obsessed with being “truer than true” risked entangling themselves with “gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude. In other instances it leads to despondency because the seeker after perfection knows he is not living the way he supposes he should.”  Elder McConkie was trying to root out a form of hyper-scrupulously in the Church; and frankly we’d be a lot better off if we had taken him a bit more seriously.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Just_A_Guy

[laronius]

I don't think we ought to try to pattern our relationship with the Savior, concerning prayer, by what the Nephites experienced in His presence. Things are just different somehow when he is physically present. Like how the Holy Ghost appears to have not been fully functioning during his mortal ministry, something that to my knowledge has not been revealed as to why. Jesus specifically tells them a number of times to pray to the Father and then later when they pray to Jesus he says "they pray unto me because I am with them." So to me this is an example that we should not try to extrapolate as being appropriate in all situations.

We should also recognize the doctrine of divine investiture when deciphering anything revealed by Jesus. In many instances he is speaking on behalf of the Father and we should be careful again to not stray beyond what has been plainly manifest, that it is to our Father in Heaven that we are commanded to pray. 

I would also caution you when applying this line of reasoning: "One nuance is the fact that Jesus taught us to pray to the Father but at no time forbid us to pray to him." My recommendation is to stick with what he has said to us. 

[romans8]

On 3/28/2016 at 12:56 PM, carlimac said:

I recognize the hierarchy, so to speak, of the Godhead. God the Father came first, followed by His Son and the Holy Ghost. 

What do you mean by the Holy Ghost came after the Son?