So I got chewed out in the church foyer tonight.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, tesuji said:

Eowyn,

Sorry to hear about your experience. Perhaps she will be your refiner's fire that give you that final push into achieving the Celestial Kingdom. 

Yup, just imagine being at the Judgment seat and hearing,"Yeah, you've been to hell already.  You're done."

[unixknight]

Just now, LeSellers said:

I admit it stings a little for a bit, but, in the end, I really don't care. I just don't have the time and energy to worry about other people's quirks.

If I thought they were right, which would make me wrong, I'd change. No one likes to be wrong. But, with rare exception, I've carefully thought out my positions and I act in concert with what I've decided is right.

So there is no reason to worry about their issues.

Lehi

You aren't wrong.  I think the problem is that when we're publicly scolded, people who witness it don't really know the whole story and may be inclined to think we had that scolding coming, which is unfair given that we can't really mount a defense without escalating the argument.  So we do what Eowyn did, and contain it by not shouting back.  That's the right thing to do, but it really takes a lot of humility.

[Guest MormonGator]

4 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

If I thought they were right, which would make me wrong, I'd change. No one likes to be wrong. But, with rare exception, I've carefully thought out my positions and I act in concert with what I've decided is right.

 

All well and good if it works for you. But if I thought I was always right and didn't question my own views, I wouldn't have joined the church in the first place. I thought I carefully thought out my own positions and decided what was right-until I was challenged with other view points. So I listened to what others thought. And cared deeply about it 

[beefche]

My advice? Decide on the person you want to be and then act accordingly. I'm not trying to sound flippant. But, it is only during these types of stressful moments that our actions show our true character. So, choose how you want to react in situations like this and act as you've chosen.

It's not easy and nothing doesn't prevent me from talking about it or how I'd LIKE to act/say, but ultimately, I know who I want to be and I do everything in my power to act like that.

[LeSellers]

20 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

If I thought they were right, which would make me wrong, I'd change. No one likes to be wrong. But, with rare exception, I've carefully thought out my positions and I act in concert with what I've decided is right.

14 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

All well and good if it works for you. But if I thought I was always right and didn't question my own views, I wouldn't have joined the church in the first place. I thought I carefully thought out my own positions and decided what was right-until I was challenged with other view points. So I listened to what others thought. And cared deeply about it 

We're not talking about the same things. Even so, I investigate a lot of new things regularly, and do change my mind. But in the cases like Eowyn's, it's a matter of fundamental philosophy: let the young men/women run the program, just give them the tools (and guidance when asked) and get out of the way (while keeping an eye on them).

Lehi

Edited May 12, 2016 by LeSellers

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Wait, I know He upturned tables and threw people out of a building.  But when did He stampede cattle at anyone?

John 2:13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;

Driving cattle with a scourge isn't often a calm process.  Even if they're relatively calm, one will eventually bolt and set off a chain reaction.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, NightSG said:

John 2:13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;

Driving cattle with a scourge isn't often a calm process.  Even if they're relatively calm, one will eventually bolt and set off a chain reaction.

Hmm.  I'd never considered that to be a "stampede".  But I guess it could have been.

[zil]

42 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

...you truly can't please everyone...

But, as my dad says, "with a little extra effort, you can make them all mad."

[NightSG]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Hmm.  I'd never considered that to be a "stampede".  But I guess it could have been.

Chase a dozen cows down a hallway that's already crowded with people and furniture.  It will get ugly.

Always did seem odd that He made a scourge, though; the weather and demons He could command with a word, but for cattle, He used a commoner's tool.  (Then again, if you've ever driven cattle, especially sheep, weather and demons can seem cooperative by comparison.)

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Chase a dozen cows down a hallway that's already crowded with people and furniture.  It will get ugly.

Always did seem odd that He made a scourge, though; the weather and demons He could command with a word, but for cattle, He used a commoner's tool.  (Then again, if you've ever driven cattle, especially sheep, weather and demons can seem cooperative by comparison.)

There was a speech I heard on that where I believe the speaker made a great point.  And, I believe this applies to the thread.

He mentioned that it seemed that with some of the most profound things the Lord did, he always seemed to take "a Celestial time-out".  He pointed out that it took some time to make a scourge.  Why?  Because he was not going to just fly off the handle at something he didn't like.  No, he carefully planned exactly what he was going to do, and exactly what he was going to say and how he was going to say and do it.

Quote

Anyone can become angry...that is easy, but to be angry with the right person, to the right degree, at the right time, for the right purpose, and in the right way...that is not easy.  -- Aristotle

Another example of the Celestial time-out is when the Pharisees brought the woman taken in adultery to the Savior and asked what they should do with her.  I know it is a popular thing for people to say that his writing in the sand was actually "names and sins" of those present.  I personally just don't buy it.  I much prefer the idea that he took a Celestial time-out.  He wrote "as though he heard them not ".  

I think it sad that in The Greatest Story Ever Told, they skipped over the writing part. It changed the very feeling of what the Savior did at that moment.  But it was already almost 4 hours long, so...

So, @Eowyn , when you took time to "sleep on it" you're in good company.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Guest

[LeSellers]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

it is a popular thing for people to say that his writing in the sand was actually "names and sins" of those present.  I personally just don't buy it.  I much prefer the idea that he took a Celestial time-out".  He wrote "as though he heard them not ".  

Although I agree with you, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Lehi

Edited May 12, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

Just now, LeSellers said:

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Lehi

True.  I still don't quite buy it.

[LeSellers]

Just now, Carborendum said:

True.  I still don't quite buy it.

See the edited message above. You're just too fast.

Lehi

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, estradling75 said:

If I were a bishop and someone came to me and complained about how someone who I called was running a program...  And their complaint boiled down to they didn't think it should be run "that way"...  I would look them straight in the eye and say "Are you volunteering to do the calling?  Because I know I can use Brother (or Sister) So and So somewhere else"

I think a lot of complaints would disappear at that point.  

Of course its probably one of the many reasons I will never be a bishop

Indeed.  Just_A_Girl and I are now serving in a calling under primary presidency where one of the members was responsible for inciting more or less an open revolt against a policy that Just_A_Girl, in her previous auxiliary presidency calling, was tasked with implementing.  We've been good soldiers at trying to follow the (sometimes impractical, and occasionaly bewildering) directives coming from our presidency, and we've even taken some heat for third parties who assumed that some of these directives were coming from us. 

We have oft wondered whether this individual appreciates the irony of the situation. 

1 hour ago, unixknight said:

You aren't wrong.  I think the problem is that when we're publicly scolded, people who witness it don't really know the whole story and may be inclined to think we had that scolding coming, which is unfair given that we can't really mount a defense without escalating the argument.  So we do what Eowyn did, and contain it by not shouting back.  That's the right thing to do, but it really takes a lot of humility.

My guess is that pretty much everyone who saw the encounter is, like us, completely in Eowyn's camp.  IMHO, the only real social backlash to be concerned about here is the backlash against the poor girl who may find herself a pariah because of her mother's antics.

[Colirio]

A jumping roundhouse kick to the face...

 

...has settled more disagreements than it has started. 

 

I also believe its its implementation during the presidential debates might sway a few votes. 

 

Empathy and kindness towards those who have obviously had a rough day is like a spiritual roundhouse to the heart. 

[NightSG]

1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Another example of the Celestial time-out is when the Pharisees brought the woman taken in adultery to the Savior and asked what they should do with her.  I know it is a popular thing for people to say that his writing in the sand was actually "names and sins" of those present.

Probably something along the lines of "Father, grant Me the patience and mercy to not mop the floor with these bozos."

[Guest]

2 hours ago, tesuji said:

Eowyn,

Sorry to hear about your experience. Perhaps she will be your refiner's fire that give you that final push into achieving the Celestial Kingdom. 

Maybe I should make her a pan of brownies.

[NeedleinA]

12 minutes ago, Eowyn said:

Maybe I should make her a pan of brownies.

I am sooooo sorry but I couldn't help myself....sorry....sorry....
I am not going to win any spirituality awards on this thread at all

Okay Eowyn, your comment reminds me of Minny's Chocolate Pie scene from "The Help". Okay, there I said - s-o-r-r-y!

[thoughts]

I hope I would have the presence of mind to respond, "I am so sorry you are frustrated.  Our meeting isn't until ____ tonight and I stopped by to pick up your daughter."

I would have done that to model expressing sympathy, while standing ground.

And I would meet with the class presidency about using the calendar function at lds.org to send emails to everyone, automatically.   And training the class to check their emails AND the calendar itself each week.  

I am wondering why you are driving her  daughter to YW's (and whether her anger was because she may not have gas money the next day because she did it).

OTOH, I think I might decline to give her rides any more because of her mother's outburst.  Anyone who lives within two minutes can walk or bicycle to church and be independent.  (Maybe I'd help daughter get a bicycle.)

Edited May 12, 2016 by thoughts

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

I am sooooo sorry but I couldn't help myself....sorry....sorry....
I am not going to win any spirituality awards on this thread at all

Okay Eowyn, your comment reminds me of Minny's Chocolate Pie scene from "The Help". Okay, there I said - s-o-r-r-y!

Ahem. Bishop Needle! That is so inappropriate!

[Guest]

After a night of sleep and some prayer and probably a new ulcer, I think what I've decided to do is explain to her that the bishopric has repeatedly counseled us to let the girls run the program; and as they learn these things will happen, but as they happen we do address them and improve things (which is true, it's on our agenda every month). And that I would appreciate being approached privately with concerns/frustrations. And a bunch of other stuff I'll end up editing before I send the email.

After that, I will help the president implement a calling tree, and give Sis. Fussypants a very wide berth from now on. 

[NeedleinA]

PLEASE no one "like" my Minny's Pie comment. After all these spiritual comments and Eowyn "choosing the right", I'm starting to regret my comment. 

Edited May 12, 2016 by NeedleinA

[Guest]

Too late, I already quoted you. And it was funny.

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, NeedleinA said:

PLEASE no one "like" my Minny's Pie comment. After all these spiritual comments and Eowyn "choosing the right", I'm starting to regret my comment. 

I will never "Like" you NeedleinA...  So you can count on me to have your back in this matter 

[NeedleinA]

1 minute ago, estradling75 said:

I will never "Like" you NeedleinA...  So you can count on me to have your back in this matter 

I know, I know... you have no problem supporting me on this one!