Who do we worship and how?

[Guest]

After bringing it up in another thread, I thought I'd make a thread on this. Who do we worship and how do we worship them? Just Heavenly Father? Jesus too? Maybe the Holy Ghost too because He's part of the Godhead. Or is it just Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost? Do both Heavenly Father and Jesus tend to get similar worship?

[Jane_Doe]

The Father is the focus of worship, just as Christ Himself worships the Father.  

[Guest]

http://askgramps.org/how-are-we-to-make-contact-with-jesus-and-have-a-personal-relationship/

The answer is not really about the question.  It is about worship.

See McConkie's speech here.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Guest

[LeSellers]

In what we may call our "worship hymns" or "praise hymns", to Whom do we sing?

We sing "O, My Father" (originally "Ode to our Heavenly Parents"), We sing "I Believe in Christ", we sing more'n a hundred such hymns. I do not recall singing anything specifically to the Holy Ghost, although we recognize His influence and pray (in song) for His presence and guidance.

I can't recall any specific commandment to worship Him, nor anything about praying to Him. Nonetheless, we do worship Him because, as @Carborendum said in the other topic, we worship Those we deify, those who have Priesthood and Godly responsibility over us.

Lehi

Edited August 16, 2016 by LeSellers

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

In what we may call our "worship hymns" or "praise hymns", to Whom do we sing?

We sing "O, My Father" (originally "Ode to our Heavenly Parents"), We sing "I Believe in Christ", we sing more'n a hundred such hymns. I do not recall singing anything specifically to the Holy Ghost, although we recognize His influence and pray (in song) for His presence and guidance.

I can't recall any specific commandment to worship Him, nor anything about praying to Him. Nonetheless, we do worship Him because, as @Carborendum said in the other topic, we worship Those we deify, those who have Priesthood and Godly responsibility over us.

Lehi

What about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because in D&C 132 Joseph Smith said they are now gods. Or Adam who is the father of the earth and is Michael who helped create the world.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Zarahemla

[Just_A_Guy]

14 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

What about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because in D&C 132 Joseph Smith said they are now gods. Or Adam who is the father of the earth and is Michael who helped create the world.

Not to get all Clintonesque, but . . . it depends on what your notion of "worship" is.

We praise these patriarchs of old for their faithfulness.  We revere their great deeds.  We speak of them, in hushed tones, in holy places.  We declare ourselves to be heirs to their legacies, and frankly acknowledge that we would not be where we are today had it not been for their earlier deeds.  We anticipate being in their presence one day.  We even sing of them, often in devotional contexts and even sometimes in pop culture

But we do not seek to commune with them in the here-and-now by speaking to them, and we do not turn to them for the fulfillment of our immediate needs.

[LeSellers]

38 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

What about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because in D&C 132 Joseph Smith said they are now gods. Or Adam who is the father of the earth and is Michael who helped create the world.

56 minutes ago, LeSellers said:

we worship Those we deify, those who have Priesthood and Godly responsibility over us.

Any Gods Who do not "have Priesthood and Godly responsibility over us" do not get our worship. The kind of Gods They are have no godly connection to us.

Lehi

[bytebear]

54 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

What about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob because in D&C 132 Joseph Smith said they are now gods. Or Adam who is the father of the earth and is Michael who helped create the world.

Jesus Christ is the only name under heaven in which we can be saved.  Being saved means returning to the Father.  So those two individuals are unique (one being the end, the other being the means to the end).  Even the Holy Ghost doesn't have such a role. And certainly not prophets of old. 

Edited August 17, 2016 by bytebear

[CV75]

17 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

After bringing it up in another thread, I thought I'd make a thread on this. Who do we worship and how do we worship them? Just Heavenly Father? Jesus too? Maybe the Holy Ghost too because He's part of the Godhead. Or is it just Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost? Do both Heavenly Father and Jesus tend to get similar worship?

D&C 93: 19, “I give unto you these sayings that you may understand and know how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in my name, and in due time receive of his fulness.”

The first 18 verses of this section emphasize the relationship between the Father and the Son, and if we are to be truly faithful (verse 18), we worship the Father as Jesus did. Verse 20 explains, “For if you keep my commandments you shall receive of his [the Father’s] fulness, and be glorified in me as I am in the Father; therefore, I say unto you, you shall receive grace for grace.” The Lord continues to describe His relationship with the Father in subsequent verses.

The Holy Ghost is only mentioned in verse 15 to introduce His role as agent in qualifying Jesus to receive a fulness of the glory of the Father (verse 16), and by extension, us (verses 19 and 20).

So we worship the Father in the fullest sense (to get a "fulness"), but may also have some aspects of worshipful feelings and attitudes toward Jesus and even the Holy Ghost, but it is good to know "how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in [Jesus'] name, and in due time receive of his fulness." To receive fully from Someone, we have to worship Him fully, and we receive a fulness only from the Father, due to the merits of Jesus by virtue of His Atonement and through the action and medium of the Holy Ghost.

Edited August 17, 2016 by CV75

[Blackmarch]

22 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

After bringing it up in another thread, I thought I'd make a thread on this. Who do we worship and how do we worship them? Just Heavenly Father? Jesus too? Maybe the Holy Ghost too because He's part of the Godhead. Or is it just Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ through the Holy Ghost? Do both Heavenly Father and Jesus tend to get similar worship?

God the father because that is who we pray to.

[james12]

On 8/16/2016 at 5:11 PM, LeSellers said:

...I do not recall singing anything specifically to the Holy Ghost, although we recognize His influence and pray (in song) for His presence and guidance.

I can't recall any specific commandment to worship Him, nor anything about praying to Him. Nonetheless, we do worship Him because, as @Carborendum said in the other topic, we worship Those we deify, those who have Priesthood and Godly responsibility over us.

Lehi

10 hours ago, CV75 said:

...The Holy Ghost is only mentioned in verse 15 to introduce His role as agent in qualifying Jesus to receive a fulness of the glory of the Father (verse 16), and by extension, us (verses 19 and 20).

So we worship the Father in the fullest sense (to get a "fulness"), but may also have some aspects of worshipful feelings and attitudes toward Jesus and even the Holy Ghost, but it is good to know "how to worship, and know what you worship, that you may come unto the Father in [Jesus'] name, and in due time receive of his fulness." To receive fully from Someone, we have to worship Him fully, and we receive a fulness only from the Father, due to the merits of Jesus by virtue of His Atonement and through the action and medium of the Holy Ghost.

Notwithstanding his place in the Godhead, we do not worship the Holy Ghost.

 

[CV75]

14 hours ago, james12 said:

Notwithstanding his place in the Godhead, we do not worship the Holy Ghost.

 

We can appreciate and value His companionship. power and influence, which are two minor aspects of of worship, as I noted above.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, james12 said:

Notwithstanding his place in the Godhead, we do not worship the Holy Ghost.

 

Why do you say that?

[prisonchaplain]

This discussion has me curious.  Do LDS worship Jesus as God the Son?  I've always assumed so, and thought I'd heard such here.  In checking at FAIRMormon.org, all the articles were about whether LDS believed in a biblical Jesus, not whether or not he was to be worshipped.  At LDS.org I found this: https://www.lds.org/liahona/2014/12/children/we-remember-and-worship-our-savior-jesus-christ?lang=eng  Basically, it's a Christmas article urging LDS to remember and emulate Jesus.  The title, though, was calling for the worship of Jesus.

The vast majority of "traditional Christians" do worship him.  Our songs are full of adoration:

Jesus Jesus Jesus, there's just something about that name. 

Jesus Jesus Jesus, like the fragrance after the rain. 

Kings and kingdoms shall all fall away, but there's something about that name.

I believe there is a Christmas cantata, that quotes from Isaiah:  The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, throughout eternity...

Then there is the chorus in which the first verse is for the Father, and the third for the Spirit.  The second verse goes: 

Jesus I adore you

Lay my life before you

How I love you!

Then there's Philippians 2: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It would seem to say that the Father glories in our glory of the Son.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

This discussion has me curious.  Do LDS worship Jesus as God the Son?  I've always assumed so, and thought I'd heard such here. 

Not to get all Bill Clinton on you, but I think it boils down to the definition of "worship".

By my definition of worship, it is certain that we do.  By the link to McConkie's speech on the topic, it is certain that we do.  And his discourse also seems to indicate that the way we properly worship them may be more similar to a worship of the Trinity than we'd care to admit.  But of course, an Evangelical would deny such allegations.

However, @james12 has a point in that there is some wiggle room on the Holy Ghost.  But I'd still maintain that we worship the Holy Ghost as well.

And if you look at what the "Second Comforter" actually means, it becomes apparent that we could also worship Jesus as God the Father as well.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Guest

[Traveler]

 

I believe I have a different perspective than most concerning worship.  First off – the first of the 10 commandments of Moses translated into English – says in essence: “Thou shalt have no other G-ds before ME.”  This ancient commandment can generally be interpreted in two ways.  First: that in our worship we should not put the worship of any other g-ds, beings, or things with a higher priority than our worship of G-d.  The second interpretation would be that when we come before G-d to worship Him that we do not bring with us any other g-ds, beings or things but focus at that moment and time exclusively on G-d.

It is also my understanding that this commandment came from Jehovah (the Son), not Elohim (the Father).  As I have come to understand the teaching of Christ – that to worship the Father is the same as to worship the Son (or Christ).  In fact as I understand Jesus – to truly worship one, is to also worship the other – that in truth it is impossible to separate them in our worship.  I believe that when there is a question of who we worship (which member of the G-dhead) – that there is a misunderstanding of both covenants and doctrine.

Of the many opinions about how to worship – I believe that the true from of worship of the One True and Living G-s is to worship him by covenant.  I believe that there are preparatory elements of worship – such as prayers, offerings and other such things – but I believe all such things from an eternal perspective are useless incantations and rituals unless we have entered into a covenant with G-d.  I also believe that our covenants with G-d evolve as we become more familiar with G-d and the Plan of Salvation – from which all true covenants with G-d have reference.  I believe that as we progress in our worship that we will address our Proctor and Suzerain first as servant to master, then as disciple to master and eventually as equal – friend to friend.

Often in encounter religionist and theologians that have a coronary about worshiping G-d as an equal friend to friend – but I believe this is because they do not understand the Glory of G-d and what it means to become “One with G-d”.

 

I also want to add that I believe that there are many forms of worship and that there is no problem in worshiping (on a much lower scale) other beings or things that do not interfer with the worship of G-d.

 

The Traveler

Edited August 18, 2016 by Traveler

[UtahTexan]

I worship the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.  I honor the prophets, past and present.

I admire the members.

 

[james12]

9 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Why do you say that?

To understand the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is to understand our relationship with them. 

Where is the HG in the status of progression? 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, james12 said:

To understand the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is to understand our relationship with them. 

Where is the HG in the status of progression? 

Please don't take a pedagogical approach.  Just explain it.

[james12]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Please don't take a pedagogical approach.  Just explain it.

This is one that needs to be pondered and revealed to you personally. If you are unwilling to consider it then no explaining on my part will convince you. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, james12 said:

This is one that needs to be pondered and revealed to you personally. If you are unwilling to consider it then no explaining on my part will convince you. 

I'm not asking to be convinced.  Considering the utterly esoteric nature of the topic, I'm not sure that's important and I probably won't be.  But your statement is cryptic enough that I don't even get where you're coming from.  I'm just interested in seeing where you're coming from.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Guest

[Blackmarch]

On 8/18/2016 at 9:33 AM, prisonchaplain said:

This discussion has me curious.  Do LDS worship Jesus as God the Son?  I've always assumed so, and thought I'd heard such here.  In checking at FAIRMormon.org, all the articles were about whether LDS believed in a biblical Jesus, not whether or not he was to be worshipped.  At LDS.org I found this: https://www.lds.org/liahona/2014/12/children/we-remember-and-worship-our-savior-jesus-christ?lang=eng  Basically, it's a Christmas article urging LDS to remember and emulate Jesus.  The title, though, was calling for the worship of Jesus.

The vast majority of "traditional Christians" do worship him.  Our songs are full of adoration:

Jesus Jesus Jesus, there's just something about that name. 

Jesus Jesus Jesus, like the fragrance after the rain. 

Kings and kingdoms shall all fall away, but there's something about that name.

I believe there is a Christmas cantata, that quotes from Isaiah:  The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, throughout eternity...

Then there is the chorus in which the first verse is for the Father, and the third for the Spirit.  The second verse goes: 

Jesus I adore you

Lay my life before you

How I love you!

Then there's Philippians 2: 10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It would seem to say that the Father glories in our glory of the Son.

The Son and he Holy Ghost are worthy of worship. However Christ has commanded us to pray to the father, so to Him we direct them.
however if someone prays to Christ i severely doubt it would be held to him as a sin.

Any of the Fathers children who do righteousness bring him glory, and i Doubt that this is a one way thing.... of all his children, Christ was by far the greatest.

Christ and his father are so unified that without the Holy ghost one would not be able to tell which one was which... and what you direct towards one is also directed to the other, Christ represents his father in every way.

And as Christ is Like his father we are to be like Christ.

[Guest]

@james12,

This was the first time I really took a look at your avatar.  I had thought it was a large gorilla, the tail being one of the arms and the back being the other -- the thought bubble being his chest.  But now I realize it is a monkey eating his own tail while thinking it's a banana.

[james12]

8 hours ago, Carborendum said:

@james12,

This was the first time I really took a look at your avatar.  I had thought it was a large gorilla, the tail being one of the arms and the back being the other -- the thought bubble being his chest.  But now I realize it is a monkey eating his own tail while thinking it's a banana.

Right you are. It is actually a funny spin on the ouroboros which shows a serpent or dragon eating it's tail.

 

Wikipedia gives a summary explanation of the symbol. 

Quote

The ouroboros often symbolizes self-reflexivity, introspection, or cyclicality, especially in the sense of something constantly re-creating itself, the eternal return, and other things such as the phoenix which operate in cycles that begin anew as soon as they end. It can also represent the idea of primordial unity related to something existing in or persisting from the beginning with such force or qualities it cannot be extinguished.

 

Edited August 20, 2016 by james12

[james12]

On 8/19/2016 at 6:47 AM, Carborendum said:

I'm not asking to be convinced.  Considering the utterly esoteric nature of the topic, I'm not sure that's important and I probably won't be.  But your statement is cryptic enough that I don't even get where you're coming from.  I'm just interested in seeing where you're coming from.

I spend very little time on this site commenting on the trivial. 

There are two statements of Joseph regarding the Holy Ghost which deserve serious consideration.

Quote

The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did. [Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith’s Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)]

Quote

The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has. (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.)

You should now see at least a part of where I am coming from. You may judge for yourself the importance.