prisonchaplain

Mormons for Hillary

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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/297032-clinton-camp-launches-mormons-for-hillary

The linked article basically has these LDS Hillary supporters arguing that Trump's anti-Islam rhetoric and his sexist speech and behavior towards women go against LDS values.  Thoughts?

BTW, is the "Mormon" label being revived?  We have this group.  Then there's the recent change in this site's brand...

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Guest MormonGator

I heard @mirkwood is a founding member of the group "Mormons for Hillary".

To me it's politics, not religion. If you think that Smith Jr was a prophet and that the Book of Mormon is "true" than you are LDS.  If you don't, you are not LDS. 

Trumps views towards women are certainly anti-LDS. Same with his reckless and out of control personal choices. No one is perfect and we've all made mistakes in our personal life, but Trump has a record of saying truly vile things towards women and also treating them quite bad. They are right about that. 

I wouldn't vote for Hillary at gunpoint, for the record. 

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46 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

BTW, is the "Mormon" label being revived?  We have this group.  Then there's the recent change in this site's brand...

It never really went away.  See the "MormonHub" article.

46 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

The linked article basically has these LDS Hillary supporters arguing that Trump's anti-Islam rhetoric and his sexist speech and behavior towards women go against LDS values.  Thoughts?

The general idea is about what I believe.  The specifics (various statements quoted in the article) I have some misgivings about.

Edited by Guest

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I just took a survey of issues to determine who I should vote for.  I'm with Hillary 10%.  Green Party was 5%.  Libertarian 47%.  Trump...uh...er...I can't say it.  The other guy--ex-CIA LDS one was tops, with 97%.  Sigh...sticking with the 2 major parties though.  BTW, does anyone know a good nose surgeon in the greater Seattle, with openings on Nov. 9?

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Utah has always (far back as anyone can remember, anyway) been a solidly red state in national elections.  Like, one of the more solidly red states that there are.  

Except for this election.  As a group of right wingers, Mormons are bigtime into rejecting trump.  Romney's strong comments, coupled with polling and people just plain being outspoken on the issue, is threatening to turn Utah purple, at least for this election, all because of Trump being who he is.

The other month, on the heels of Romney's blistering remarks, Trump tried to make political hay with mainstream Christianity by flipping mormons the bird.  Basically abandoning Utah.  Hillary showed up for a visit within a few weeks, trying to grab disaffected #NeverTrumpers with talk of religious liberty and how she's always been in faith's corner, and whatnot.

The current news would seem to me, to be some aftereffects of all that.

 

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Repeal of the prohibition on federal funding of abortions

Even greater tax dollars going towards Planned Parenthood

Judges who will approve of removing religious exemptions from any faith-based institutions, other than churches, (i.e. BYU) that violate public anti-discrimination laws (restrictions on enrollment, morality codes/covenants, restricting leadership positions based upon religious qualifications, etc.)

Judges who will force churches to provide transgendered bathrooms

Judges who will look to the US Commission on Civil Rights most recent report urging very limited religious exemptions and very grand enforcement of LBGT entitlements

More decisions like refusing refugee status to home schoolers from Germany, while accepting high-risk ones from areas known for religious extremism

I could continue, but HRC as the religious liberty candidate?  Can someone say, "Fox guarding the hen house?"

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Anti-Islam rhetoric and his sexist speech?  You're going to put the Presidency of the United States of America at the balance on those charges?  Didn't you guys just put the past almost 8  years of America on the balance over a guy who can stem-wind all day long on the teleprompter?

Anyway... here you go NeverTrumpers... for your light reading. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/440198/never-nevertrump-not-voting-trump-republican-suicide

I'm just gonna give the article's whopper of an opening statement:

Any Republican has a difficult pathway to the presidency. On the electoral map, expanding blue blobs in coastal and big-city America swamp the conservative geographical sea of red. Big-electoral-vote states such as California, Illinois, New York, and New Jersey are utterly lost before the campaign even begins.
 
The media have devolved into a weird Ministry of Truth. News seems defined now as what information is necessary to release to arrive at correct views. In recent elections, centrists, like John McCain and Mitt Romney – once found useful by the media when running against more-conservative Republicans — were reinvented as caricatures of Potterville scoundrels right out of a Frank Capra movie. When the media got through with a good man like McCain, he was left an adulterous, confused septuagenarian, unsure of how many mansions he owned, and a likely closeted bigot. Another gentleman like Romney was reduced to a comic-book Ri¢hie Ri¢h, who owned an elevator, never talked to his garbage man, hazed innocents in prep school, and tortured his dog on the roof of his car. If it were a choice between shouting down debate moderator Candy Crowley and shaming her unprofessionalism, or allowing her to hijack the debate, Romney in Ajaxian style (“nobly live, or nobly die”) chose the decorous path of dignified abdication.

 
AND LOST!
You want more of that?  Go ahead.  It's your America.
 
Trump has been on the media spotlight since the 70's.  It wasn't until last year that anybody complained about him being anti-Islamic, sexist, bigot, racist, homophobe.  Even with his The Apprentice show... he fired people left and right yet nobody ever cried - SEXIST!  Matter of fact, he was lauded by ACLU as one great dude... until he announced he's running for President.
 
At least with McCain, Palin, and Romney we only had to fight the Democrats.  This time, we get to fight the Democrats and the GOP-E all at the same time... and yes, the Deplorables still managed to go head to head with all these combined enemies to edge out Hillary and the giant well-oiled Clinton political machine.
 
 
 

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1 hour ago, NeuroTypical said:

Utah has always (far back as anyone can remember, anyway) been a solidly red state in national elections.  Like, one of the more solidly red states that there are.  

Except for this election.  As a group of right wingers, Mormons are bigtime into rejecting trump.  Romney's strong comments, coupled with polling and people just plain being outspoken on the issue, is threatening to turn Utah purple, at least for this election, all because of Trump being who he is.

The other month, on the heels of Romney's blistering remarks, Trump tried to make political hay with mainstream Christianity by flipping mormons the bird.  Basically abandoning Utah.  Hillary showed up for a visit within a few weeks, trying to grab disaffected #NeverTrumpers with talk of religious liberty and how she's always been in faith's corner, and whatnot.

The current news would seem to me, to be some aftereffects of all that.

 

 

A recent poll suggested that Texas could be a close race as well, with the 65+ age demographic being the only factor in Trump's relatively (for a Republican in Texas) narrow lead. What a time to be alive.

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1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

If it were a choice between shouting down debate moderator Candy Crowley and shaming her unprofessionalism, or allowing her to hijack the debate, Romney in Ajaxian style (“nobly live, or nobly die”) chose the decorous path of dignified abdication.

 

I have to admit, I miss Romney.  I liked him.  Alas, this year we have the hated vice principal vs. the playground bully.  There are enough angry students that the bully just might win it.

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For the first time in my voting lifetime, a third party vote is a viable thing.  Gary Johnson is taking votes from both left and right.  I've teamed up with a buddy from the left who would otherwise vote Hillary, and we've both agreed to vote Johnson.  Basically, I'm not voting for the Republican candidate, but I'm doing so in a way that doesn't help Hillary get elected.

Besides, these guys just make the coolest snarky videos: http://balancedrebellion.com/

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Trump’s views and rhetoric is actually very anti-political establishment.  What many interpret as reckless add hock down grading of women, minorities and just about everything else will only make sense when viewed as anti-political establishment and anti-political correct talk.  But the never Trumpers (that as near as I can determine) are basically very entrenched establishment political insiders will never openly admit their own intentions - only attack opposition to their power base. 

Our media (including press) is all very biased regardless of how they spin themselves as non-spin or open minded moderates.  The trick is not to interpret political opinions – which are more often vailed rhetoric intended to fool the electret and get one individual elected.  It is what I call crony democracy.   The trick is to move past what is said to what is done.

Trump has succeeded in destroying the established crony Republican agenda in the presidential race but not all the established crony Republicans in the Republican Party.   I have no idea what Trump’s actual views are beyond the lets tear down the establishment rhetoric.  But I believe I can identify exactly where everybody stands and what political influences (including political correct influences) dominate their lives by what they use (reflect from established talking points) as an excuse to oppose Trump.

But it is also my personal view that despite all the political establishment spin and candidate posturing; concerning the differences between Trump and Clinton – that neither candidate will put a dent in threat of the evil (secret combinations) influences taking control of our government.

 

The Traveler

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Why I can't be Libertarian

 

During my young adult years I experimented, not with drugs or sex, but with alternative political ideologies.  Libertarianism caught my attention.  I read Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand), and really liked the emphasis on individual responsibility and promise.  On the other hand, as I considered social issues, I ran headlong into Rand's militant atheism and anti-charity views.  Her personal life was immoral, and she despised religion and charity--and especially religious charity.  Then I considered the legalization of drugs, all gambling and prostitution, combined with the withdrawal of US troops from foreign lands were recipes for national and worldwide decline.  The modern iteration of the Libertarian Party may be far less extreme, but my Christian motivation to be salt and light in a very dark, sinful world drives me a way from the Libertarian bandwagon.  The need to defeat HRC's self-hating, religion-restricting reign is strong enough that not voting for her is not enough.  I must vote against her in a way that has a chance of matters.  I have to vote for the alternative candidate that can actually win.

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Guest MormonGator
5 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

I read Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand), and really liked the emphasis on individual responsibility and promise. 

A lot of us are influenced by her even though we don't agree with her on everything. I think it's fun to bother the radical objectivists out there, for sure. 

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Everything Hillary says is right off the Communist Party, USA, website; she agrees with ever single thing the communist spout.  Let me paraphrase Elder H. Verlan Andersen, from his book, "Many Are Called But Few Are Chosen."  Any Latter-day Saint who agrees with, or gives aid, comfort, or support to communism/socialism is a traitor to his country and to the Church.  He also said that your political views reflect your moral values.  So, if you vote for Hillary, you believe in stealing, killing, lying, cheating, etc.

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25 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

Why I can't be Libertarian

 

During my young adult years I experimented, not with drugs or sex, but with alternative political ideologies.  Libertarianism caught my attention.  I read Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged (Ayn Rand), and really liked the emphasis on individual responsibility and promise.  On the other hand, as I considered social issues, I ran headlong into Rand's militant atheism and anti-charity views.  Her personal life was immoral, and she despised religion and charity--and especially religious charity.  Then I considered the legalization of drugs, all gambling and prostitution, combined with the withdrawal of US troops from foreign lands were recipes for national and worldwide decline.  The modern iteration of the Libertarian Party may be far less extreme, but my Christian motivation to be salt and light in a very dark, sinful world drives me a way from the Libertarian bandwagon.  The need to defeat HRC's self-hating, religion-restricting reign is strong enough that not voting for her is not enough.  I must vote against her in a way that has a chance of matters.  I have to vote for the alternative candidate that can actually win.

I was raised in a very political house hold.  By time I was 12 I was put to work in the local political machine for various political election campaigns.  I have worked with organizations with how to use lobbyists, to outline their agendas and then to rally mass responses to elected candidates when desired or undesired legislation is up for vote.

Those that are concerned with political views or campaign speeches or party planks – as to what party they should support or candidate they should endorse are the worse fools for citizens.  It is never about what a candidate or party says or claims to endorse – it is what they do – what legislation (especially line items) they endorse and with what power bases they align that is what is really important.

I cannot think of a political campaign agenda from any party I can say I oppose – and at the same time – I do not know of a particular candidate or party I can say I endorse what they have done.  If there is anything that appears to be a great political move to help citizens – it only seems that way because, like an iceberg – the real danger is hidden (often very carefully hidden – to exploit something) beneath the surface.  

 

The Traveler

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1 hour ago, prisonchaplain said:

I have to admit, I miss Romney.  I liked him.  Alas, this year we have the hated vice principal vs. the playground bully.  There are enough angry students that the bully just might win it.

Compared to Romney, everyone can be painted as the playground bully.  Including Newt Gingrich. 

Okay, I take that back.  Dr. Carson can never pass for playground bully no matter who tries to paint him as such.

Unfortunately, the Bush/Romney style of "I'm gonna let you beat me up while I go take the high ground" not only doesn't win elections, it also doesn't win Congressional bills.  You have to accept that the playground is full of bullies - the entire administration, school board, the PTA, and the school paper are all expert high-brow bullies.  And they have no compunction about paying some students to do bully work for them.  So, for a student to be heard, he has to go pull up his britches and face up to ALL those bullies.  So they pick a champion that CAN'T be bullied.  Well, that champion would be a man of strength... and, of course, the high-brow bullies look down their noses and declare... HE'S the bully.  Of course, this is designed to make the students feel guilty for picking a champion...

Yet... the people who deal with Trump on a personal basis do not come out of it with the perception that he's a playground bully.  He even went to some event where he gave one of his extemporaneous speeches and the host came up to the stage and told him - we don't want a political speech - and he says, Oh, okay in this humble manner... and completely changed his speech on the fly.  Yep.  Playground bully right there alright.

Edited by anatess2

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@anatess2 Don't worry about who I "like."  Mr. Trump does not need my like, he wants my vote.  You are right that basic respect is far more essential than notions of dignity and class in today's political environment.  Still, can't help but let it be known that this old codger preferred the days when Romney/Reagan were just standard operating procedure on both sides of the aisle.

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Guest MormonGator
23 minutes ago, mirkwood said:

@MormonGator is a Hillary lover.

hillary_zpsixq0jypw.jpeg

I am so handsome. I could be on the cover of GQ tomorrow. That picture was from so long ago. Taken on top of a mountain in NH. I forget which one that was on. A 4,000 footer, hence why I was going that with my hands. The girl taking it was an ex girlfriend who I thought I would marry! If I did marry her, we wouldn't be talking right now. She was vehemently anti-LDS!!!! 

@zil-you would no longer be a prisoner of the compound!!! 

Edited by MormonGator

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Guest MormonGator
4 minutes ago, zil said:

Says the guy who only knows about 2 of our 6 exits! [ooops]

That's it. I'm calling the cement company again. 

 

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