Trump Can't Win

[Larry Cotrell]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

100% correct. Hopefully Clinton will be a one term president. Right leaning people (And I'm certainly one of them) need to start accepting that she is going to win now. It's over. 

The one good thing-the ONE good thing about this campaign is that it's brought third parties to the mainstream. No longer do we have to hear "Harry Browne? Who the heck is he?" (A man I have nothing but respect for, by the way). So Gary Johnson won't win in 2016. He won't win in 2020. Maybe in 2030 he has a better change though. 

I think if anyone picks up momentum over the next few years it'll be Bernie Sanders because the millenials are a bunch of commies (okay that's an exaggeration, but many of them will admit that they're socialist). However, by the time he got elected, he would be so old that it could be Weekend at Bernie's III: Weekend at the Whitehouse (I never saw the second one because it looked horrible).

Back on topic... Gary Johnson would have gotten more support, but he's in favor of legalizing marijuana and he's also in favor of abortion. This is the reason he didn't get more support from right-wing anti-Trump conservatives, like myself. But yes, I agree that Libertarians in general will get more support in the years to come.

Younger people are gravitating toward extremes, whether it be libertarianism or socialism.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Larry Cotrell

[unixknight]

5 hours ago, Larry Cotrell said:

But yes, I agree that Libertarians in general will get more support in the years to come.

Younger people are gravitating toward extremes, whether it be libertarianism or socialism.

I think another boost Libertarians are getting is, surprisingly, from Hollywood.  The movie Captain America: Winter Soldier was a surprisingly Conservative movie in featuring things like Government surveillance, overreach and corruption.  This is also true of The Batman movie The Dark Knight in depicting surveillance on a scary level.  Just comic book movies?  Maybe, but they actually have something to say that Libertarians like myself appreciate.

I do agree with you about Gary Johnson.  I supported him at first but for his abortion position as well as some general wackiness, I switched to Evan McMullin.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Exactly right. Hence why I think Trumpers are suffering from a psychological flaw of some kind. It doesn't make them stupid, but presented with this much evidence that your candidate is deeply flawed as a politician  (and I'm just talking about his failures as a politician. Not his failures as a man, businessman or husband) a reasonable person would jump ship and focus their energy on someone else. 

Here's some perfect evidence:

On 10/14/2016 at 0:54 PM, yjacket said:

My statement about him being connected to the insiders/Establishment/Gadianton Robbers is based upon what I know about the CFR and investment banks and the CIA.  This guy worked for 10 years in the CIA, then in investment banking and now he's a Presidential candidate?

Sorry, no dice. You don't work for 10 years in the CIA as a covert officer switch to investment banking, and on August 8th of this year declare your candidacy for President ...

Suspicion, accusation, and circumstantial evidence is enough to completely convince him to NOT vote for McMullen.  But the same could be said about Trump and the best he can offer is "a pox on both their houses, but I'm still voting for Trump."

Hmm.  So, even if we take as a given that McMullen is "establishment", Trump is still a better candidate because... reasons?

 

[Sunday21]

16 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Exactly right. Hence why I think Trumpers are suffering from a psychological flaw of some kind. It doesn't make them stupid, but presented with this much evidence that your candidate is deeply flawed as a politician  (and I'm just talking about his failures as a politician. Not his failures as a man, businessman or husband) a reasonable person would jump ship and focus their energy on someone else. 

Thank you! Finally someone actually said this...

[Colirio]

While I am not going to sit here and talk about Trump's "virtues," I will say that he has a good chance of winning. 

 

I certainly never intended to support him, but living in NC means my vote counts in a major way. 

 

I am certainly not voting for Hillary the Criminal. I am not even considering Gary Johnson, especially in lieu I recent church statements. Evan McMullin's only sound bites seem to revolve around why Trump and Hillary shouldn't be president rather than what he intends to do. 

 

That leaves me me with an unfortunate choice. I have prayed considerably about what to do and have received little direction so far. 

 

As Vort once said so eloquently, I intend to probably hold my nose and vote for Trump. 

 

Ugh. 

 

It's like eating a dirt sandwich. 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Colirio

[Just_A_Guy]

So, it's a pet peeve of mine when people post video of candidates bloviating for an hour rather than just posting a transcript. 

That said, if you have an hour to waste--or just want something to listen to while doing your knitting -- this Forbes article includes an hour-long video of McMullin being interviewed at the Texas Tribune Festival; and it does get reasonably substantive.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

So, it's a pet peeve of mine when people post video of candidates bloviating for an hour rather than just posting a transcript. 

That said, if you have an hour to waste--or just want something to listen to while doing your knitting -- this Forbes article includes an hour-long video of McMullin being interviewed at the Texas Tribune Festival; and it does get reasonably substantive.

I was thinking,"This is exactly the article I would have written if I had such an avenue to address my thoughts".  He even used similar vocabulary, sentence structure, and train of thought that I would have used. Awesome.  Thanks for the article.

I often wonder how the binary supporters think that voting Trump in the Left Coast is not "throwing away your vote", yet voting for McMullen is.

[Jojo Bags]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2016 at 11:44 AM, Carborendum said:

Does anyone really believe that Trump is going to win this election?  I'm having trouble buying that.  The bottom line is that Hillary is going to win.  

But what I'm left with now is the following options.

1) Vote for Hillary and have Hillary win.
2) Vote for Trump and have Hillary win.
3) Don't vote at all and have Hillary win.
4) Vote for another candidate and have Hillary win.

So, when people tell me that a vote for anyone other than Trump is actually a vote for Hillary seems like foolishness to me.  By that same logic, it appears that even a vote for Trump is a vote for Hillary.  I partially apologize to those here who have said that  -- especially one friend of mine in particular (a-hem).

All I can hope to do is to vote my conscience regardless of anything else because the electoral result will be the same -- Hillary wins.  But I can at least have some peace in knowing that I voted my conscience.

It doesn't matter who you vote for.  The fix is already in and the Gadiantons will put in whomever they select. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Jojo Bags said:

It doesn't matter who you vote for.  The fix is already in and the Gadiantons will put in whomever they select. 

Exactly.

[mirkwood]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

"throwing away your vote"

There is no such thing.  This is another media driven concept.

[james12]

9 hours ago, Colirio said:

While I am not going to sit here and talk about Trump's "virtues," I will say that he has a good chance of winning. 

I certainly never intended to support him, but living in NC means my vote counts in a major way. 

I am certainly not voting for Hillary the Criminal. I am not even considering Gary Johnson, especially in lieu I recent church statements. Evan McMullin's only sound bites seem to revolve around why Trump and Hillary shouldn't be president rather than what he intends to do. 

That leaves me me with an unfortunate choice. I have prayed considerably about what to do and have received little direction so far. 

As Vort once said so eloquently, I intend to probably hold my nose and vote for Trump. 

Ugh. 

It's like eating a dirt sandwich. 

Let me suggest something to you or others who might read this. If in order to perform an action you feel like your eating a dirt sandwich or have to hold your nose to get through it, then the Lord has already answered your prayer and told you what not to do. Don't fight against it.   

[prisonchaplain]

@james12  Perhaps some of us are willing to endure the pinched nose, or dirt sandwich, to save our nation from a generation of pro-abortion, anti-religious liberty judges.  God has used unlikely, ungodly leaders in the past, so why not now?

Now, if my 16-year old daughter talks about a boy like that (pinched nose, dirt sandwich) I'd probably tell her God spoke loud and clear. 

[Guest MormonGator]

53 minutes ago, james12 said:

Let me suggest something to you or others who might read this. If in order to perform an action you feel like your eating a dirt sandwich or have to hold your nose to get through it, then the Lord has already answered your prayer and told you what not to do. Don't fight against it.   

No where near that simple. That's nothing how the real world is actually.

In the real world (non internet) you have to chose between less than stellar options sometimes. I know this firsthand-in business some people you deal with aren't always saints. Some people don't live by our standards and you can't dictate morality to them. I'd like to tell you that I've never done business with someone who is unethical, but you can't pick and choose clients (and much more importantly, customers)  all the time and in reality, you need to feed your family and pay your bills. If you are overly picky about who you work with you'll feel really good about yourself, and your family will starve because someone else will get their business and money. 

It's a blunt truth and the older I get the more I see it happening. 

Edited October 21, 2016 by MormonGator

[james12]

34 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

@james12  Perhaps some of us are willing to endure the pinched nose, or dirt sandwich, to save our nation from a generation of pro-abortion, anti-religious liberty judges.  God has used unlikely, ungodly leaders in the past, so why not now?

Now, if my 16-year old daughter talks about a boy like that (pinched nose, dirt sandwich) I'd probably tell her God spoke loud and clear. 

You know if more people would stop eating dirt sandwiches and holding their noses we might have a leader that doesn't stink to high heaven. Maybe it's time to trust the Lord and vote on principle not based on rhetoric. There is much more to the presidency than picking judges. The Lord has said, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." (Proverbs 29:2). Judges do not change the truth of that scripture.

[james12]

37 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

No where near that simple. That's nothing how the real world is actually.

In the real world (non internet) you have to chose between less than stellar options sometimes. I know this firsthand-in business some people you deal with aren't always saints. Some people don't live by our standards and you can't dictate morality to them. I'd like to tell you that I've never done business with someone who is unethical, but you can't pick and choose clients (and much more importantly, customers)  all the time and in reality, you need to feed your family and pay your bills. If you are overly picky about who you work with you'll feel really good about yourself, and your family will starve because someone else will get their business and money. 

It's a blunt truth and the older I get the more I see it happening. 

You indeed may do business with someone that is unethical, but would you chose that same person to rule over you? Why would anyone do such a thing? Because we have to vote as a block? Because we have to support the republican party? Because of a judge? Keep eating the dirt...

[Guest MormonGator]

17 minutes ago, james12 said:

You indeed may do business with someone that is unethical, but would you chose that same person to rule over you? Why would anyone do such a thing? Because we have to vote as a block? Because we have to support the republican party? Because of a judge? Keep eating the dirt...

Anyone who knows me here knows I don't like Trump.I can't stand him actually. If this is a surprise to you, then you aren't paying attention. @yjacket and @anatess2 can both witness that I don't like the guy. So this doesn't come easy for me to say. 

I would never speak for my friends Yjacket or Anatess (and I do consider them friends), but I understand why they are voting for Trump-even though I personally disagree. Perfect is the worst enemy of the good.  You aren't picking a pope or a prophet. You are picking a president. And he is truly the lesser evil. 
 

Edited October 21, 2016 by MormonGator

[james12]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Anyone who knows me here knows I don't like Trump.I can't stand him actually. If this is a surprise to you, then you aren't paying attention. @yjacket and @anatess2 can both witness that I don't like the guy. So this doesn't come easy for me to say. 

I would never speak for my friends Yjacket or Anatess, but I understand why they are voting for Trump-even though I personally disagree. Perfect is the worst enemy of the good.  You aren't picking a pope or a prophet. You are picking a president. And he is truly the lesser evil. 
 

Sure, we will never get perfect. But it is important to support some with integrity. Clearly Trump is not that person.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, james12 said:

Sure, we will never get perfect. But it is important to support some with integrity. Clearly Trump is not that person.

Personally, I agree with you. 

However I'm seeing a lot of NeverTrumpers (And no, this isn't directed towards you @james12) who want to remain morally pure and look down on the people who are getting their hands dirty and voting for Trump.

[james12]

5 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

Personally, I agree with you. 

However I'm seeing a lot of NeverTrumpers (And no, this isn't directed towards you @james12) who want to remain morally pure and look down on the people who are getting their hands dirty and voting for Trump.

So do you believe Trump is still likely to win?

[Guest MormonGator]

6 minutes ago, james12 said:

So do you believe Trump is still likely to win?

Oh goodness no, he'll lose 49 states. Never thought he stood a chance. 

[james12]

So we will both be voting for loosing candidates, but at the end of the day my candidate will be fit for the presidency and have integrity. Your's is neither.

See, time to get away from the dirt and stink.

Edited October 21, 2016 by james12

[Guest MormonGator]

7 minutes ago, james12 said:

 Your's is neither.

Okay, one more time: 

I'm not voting for Trump. 

[james12]

Oh, I didn't see you say you were not voting for Trump. Well great. 

I actually, understand the thinking of voting for Trump. It's just become less and less compelling the further this race goes on.

[prisonchaplain]

3 hours ago, james12 said:

You know if more people would stop eating dirt sandwiches and holding their noses we might have a leader that doesn't stink to high heaven. Maybe it's time to trust the Lord and vote on principle not based on rhetoric. There is much more to the presidency than picking judges. The Lord has said, "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn." (Proverbs 29:2). Judges do not change the truth of that scripture.

I am pro-Proverbs. This election does not give us the option of a righteous choice.  Although, imho, Pence is the most righteous person on the two main tickets.  Judges can serve 30-40 years, and will indeed be deciding on abortion and religious liberty issues. Beyond the judges, what will the candidates actually do if elected?  HRC says Christians must change their views on abortion.  She will work to overturn the Hyde amendment, so that YOU will be paying for abortions (right now no federal funds directly pay for them).  Which candidate's team has openly despised Catholics and Evangelicals?  Which candidate inherits the kind of thinking that led to the recent US Commission on Civil Rights saying that "religious liberty" is just hatred and bigotry?  Which candidate considers 1/4 of America (present company included) deplorable and irredeemable?

Mr. Trump has personal behaviors, mannerisms, and history that bother me greatly.  However, Clinton hates me, my kind, my faith, and apparently sees unborn children as fodder for her campaign.  I'm willing to use Trump to combat Clinton.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Oh goodness no, he'll lose 49 states. Never thought he stood a chance. 

Oh, come on!  He'll only lose 45 states.  I mean, we gotta argue about something, right, Bro?

Edited October 21, 2016 by Guest