Trump Can't Win

[yjacket]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Not true omega.  I quickly and easily found a leftie facebook buddy, as ticked off at Hillary as I was at Trump, and we both went Johnson.  I had numerous facebook buddies to choose from.

Probably the best view I've found from a libertarian perspective of the election.

https://mises.org/library/jeff-deist-libertarian-view-election

I think Jeff Deist does an excellent job at articulating where Johnson went wrong and what libertarianism needs to do at this junction.

[yjacket]

3 hours ago, Vort said:

To be fair, it seems self-evident that Johnson, a Republican running as a Libertarian*, drew much more heavily from the conservative side of the aisle than from the liberal side.

*Actually, Johnson seems to be a Libertarian who served as governor as a Republican and then ran for president under his truer colors.

Unfortunately, Johnson became what I dislike about Republicrats in general. He tried to brand L as socially liberal and fiscally conservative (no, no and just no) and had Weld on the ticket who shilled for Hillary a couple of times.  He was a much, much better candidate 4 years ago (had that Johnson showed up, I probably would have voted for him).

[yjacket]

 

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Yup.  I was wrong.  It is my sincere belief that something else was going on behind the scenes that changed everything.

Well that depends on how far down the rabbit hole you want to go. I will say things got really, really interesting about 4 weeks ago.

I believe that we came very, very close to losing the republic. I believe that with the Clinton Foundation, Clinton had established a network of individuals including major members of the news media, the DoJ, FBI, etc. that were in effect carrying out a soft coup attempt in the US.  

What changed? 2 things, I think wikileaks started alerting other high-powered individuals within the government that weren't part of this coup attempt about what was going on. I think some high powered people woke up to what was occurring right under their noses and started a major counter-coup attempt. I think there were former and current Generals and individuals inside the government who said enough-she ain't getting this. This was fought on social media and simply getting the word out.  

As much as I generally dislike Fox News, I think they were a major player in this counter-coup.  The messaging after the 1st debate was very dark and it was amazing how many people's endorsement of Trump went completely underground. I think people started to get really worried if endorsing Trump might become dangerous in a Clinton administration. We slid down to cultural Marxism without even realizing what happened. But thanks to wikileaks and some very brave individuals who didn't cave to fear I think they fought enough to significantly damage Clinton to the point that it would be politically very hard for her coronation to go off without a hitch.  Once that happened and the people in the know realized more and more how deadly, corrupt and dangerous Clinton was, I think it a 4 week sprint for the heart and soul of the country.

But again that depends on how far down the rabbit hole one wants to go . . . 

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by yjacket

[omegaseamaster75]

2 hours ago, askandanswer said:

If Trump continues with his plans to put Hillary in jail, Australia might be willing to offer political asylum

That will not happen

[omegaseamaster75]

11 minutes ago, yjacket said:

Unfortunately, Johnson became what I dislike about Republicrats in general. He tried to brand L as socially liberal and fiscally conservative (no, no and just no) and had Weld on the ticket who shilled for Hillary a couple of times.  He was a much, much better candidate 4 years ago (had that Johnson showed up, I probably would have voted for him).

There is no republican party anymore, not in the traditional sense at least. of social and fiscal conservatism the American public does not want that.

[yjacket]

11 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

There is no republican party anymore, not in the traditional sense at least. of social and fiscal conservatism the American public does not want that.

If you mean no more conservative party in the sense of McCain and Bush, I say good riddance. We shall see what this new world brings . . .

[omegaseamaster75]

You can make the argument that neither Bush nor McCain were/are true conservatives....but yes all establishment Republicans need to be looking over their shoulder. 

[yjacket]

5 minutes ago, omegaseamaster75 said:

You can make the argument that neither Bush nor McCain were/are true conservatives....but yes all establishment Republicans need to be looking over their shoulder. 

At the national level yes, state level, not yet. I'm in a very red state, yet the establishment Rs are extremely corrupt (it is very bad). In general they are conservative, but they are more big government conservatives in the vein of Bush/McCain and I would love for them to all get thrown out of office.  They hold a strangle-hold on any true limited government legislation getting passed.  At the State level, the same 'ol corrupt crowd was re-elected-which I either voted against, voted Libertarian or didn't vote for them. They have done nothing but grow government to ever bigger levels and to take ever bigger control of people's lives.

[anatess2]

On 10/20/2016 at 11:47 PM, prisonchaplain said:

I am pro-Proverbs. This election does not give us the option of a righteous choice.  Although, imho, Pence is the most righteous person on the two main tickets. 

Okay, this is what was really frustrating about this election.  The e-GOP, using the tactics of the Democrats, have effectively waged Character Assassination with the media gleefully giving them a way to do so starting in June 2015 at Trump.  Trump has been effectively placed in the minds of a lot of Republicans - including several people who contributed to this thread, that Trump is not a man of integrity.

Pence - as you have vetted here as the most righteous person here - has this to say about Trump:

PENCE: To be on the ballot with Donald Trump, it's a deeply moving experience for me, for my family.  I've seen Donald Trump when the klieg lights are off.  I've seen him off the campaign trail, and I truly do believe that he has the leadership qualities and the vision to make America great again.  And I couldn't be more honored to be standing with him.  Character matters to the presidency and Donald Trump will bring the highest level of integrity to the highest office of the land

Edited November 10, 2016 by anatess2

[prisonchaplain]

@anatess2  I have no desire to vet President-Elect Trump's character flaws now.  It's an ugly business, even during election season. At this point most all of us simply hope you are right--and that VP-elect Pence is right. Further, I would hope that those of us who voted for him can exercise godly graciousness towards those who could not.

I live in an area where many are fretting that humanity is dead, that America is racist, hateful and misogynist. They should let go of their moral smugness, and realize that many in the rust-belt, who held $40/hour jobs, and are told they no longer qualify for positions at half that, because they are ignorant (only a HS diploma?) and white and male, are understandably angry and hurt. Also, many Christians voted for Trump because of his pro-life, pro-religious liberty stance, not because we thought he could compete with Mother Theresa in a nice person contest. 

THAT SAID, we who cast that ballot for President-Elect Trump should remember that concerns about racism, sexism, and religious bigotry (anti-Muslim fervor) do not arise out of thin air. We would do well to demonstrate, quietly and consistently, that we care for the widow, the orphaned, and the poor, and that we will treat "the stranger at our gates" with Christ-like charity.

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, prisonchaplain said:

THAT SAID, we who cast that ballot for President-Elect Trump should remember that concerns about racism, sexism, and religious bigotry (anti-Muslim fervor) do not arise out of thin air. We would do well to demonstrate, quietly and consistently, that we care for the widow, the orphaned, and the poor, and that we will treat "the stranger at our gates" with Christ-like charity.

No, it doesn't arise out of thin air.  It arose out of decades of masterful choreographed political strategy of the Democrat Party and a complicit media that then got piggy-backed on by the e-GOP to eat their own.  So, no, we don't cast disdain on those of the American rank and file that believe Trump (and all Republicans before him) raise concerns about racism, sexism, and religious bigotry.  We cast disdain on the political and media elites who are the architects of the modern stigma of racism, sexism, etc. on those who want to protect the Constitution and the Rule of Law and its tenets of Freedom for All.  After all, the LDS Church may say, "we were persecuted", but I am very sure they don't say, "so please break the law and immigrate to America" or even "please don't vet Muslims to find Muslim terrorists".

Edit:  This battle against the political elites and their collusion with a politicized media is still ongoing.  Tuesday did not resolve that in any shape way or form.  So yes, the work continues.

Edited November 10, 2016 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

Quote

Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

--1 Kings 19:18

 

[anatess2]

13 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said:

 

Explain the significance.

This kind of stuff has littered my FB wall.  PC advocated Trumpers to be Christ-like in their victory yet it is not the Trumpers who are calling their fellowmen followers of Baal - as many of my Mormon friends have called us on my FB wall.  I'm hoping that you did not imply that on your quote of Kings.

Edited November 10, 2016 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

55 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Explain the significance.

This kind of stuff has littered my FB wall.  PC advocated Trumpers to be Christ-like in their victory yet it is not the Trumpers who are calling their fellowmen followers of Baal - as many of my Mormon friends have called us on my FB wall.  I'm hoping that you did not imply that on your quote of Kings.

I think the more interesting topic for discussion, is how quickly pro-Trump discourse has pivoted from

"Look, we aren't electing a pastor-in-chief, ya big prude!"

to

"You know, Trump actually has all those qualities I was just telling you don't matter so much.  Mike Pence said so, and who are you going to believe--him, or your own lying eyes?!".

Edited November 10, 2016 by Just_A_Guy

[prisonchaplain]

@anatess2  Trump supporters won. It falls on us to be gracious in victory. Much of the media remains smug, self-righteous, and condescending. However, I've read a couple of self-aware columns, which more or less admitted that a majority of America now hates them and distrusts them, and they might do well to grab ahold of some humility, and re-discover objectivity and respect for ideological opponents. So, let's prove them wrong, and take the higher road, no matter how unfair our opponents are.

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, prisonchaplain said:

@anatess2  Trump supporters won. It falls on us to be gracious in victory. Much of the media remains smug, self-righteous, and condescending. However, I've read a couple of self-aware columns, which more or less admitted that a majority of America now hates them and distrusts them, and they might do well to grab ahold of some humility, and re-discover objectivity and respect for ideological opponents. So, let's prove them wrong, and take the higher road, no matter how unfair our opponents are.

The pretext is, of course, that we're not.  And that pre-text is one I reject.  Republicans have always been gracious in victory and defeat as has been evidenced by the post-Reagan election (the attacks on Reagan during the campaign was also vicious) and all the Presidential elections following including last Tuesday.

Trump himself set that tone in his victory speech, followed by a gracious Ryan speech, as well as a gracious Clinton speech.  The graciousness continues through Trump's very first meeting with Obama that lasted almost 1.5 hours as opposed to the expected 15 minutes.  So, just the fact that Trump, who was accused by Obama as a KKK sympathizer, was able to last 1.5 hours with Obama and come out of it with both of them making positive statements to the press is graciousness that many people told us repeatedly he's not capable of.

And the fact that I'm pointing all this out is not my effort to be ungracious.  Rather, I'm just making objective commentary.

Edited November 10, 2016 by anatess2

[Just_A_Guy]

59 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Explain the significance.

This kind of stuff has littered my FB wall.  PC advocated Trumpers to be Christ-like in their victory yet it is not the Trumpers who are calling their fellowmen followers of Baal - as many of my Mormon friends have called us on my FB wall.  I'm hoping that you did not imply that on your quote of Kings.

I guess, to distill things a different way:  There is a lot of overlap between Trump and the characteristics associated with Baal or Baal-worship.  He is a sexual libertine and, by most indicators, a sexual predator as well.  He is, by most indicators, staggeringly materialistic and hedonistic.  He is, by most objective indicators, a profligate liar.  He is, by many objective indicators, capable of being deeply dishonorable in business.  He is, by most objective indicators, a vulgarian.  He does, by most objective indicators, take special delight in the sufferings of those he considers to be his enemies. 

It's one thing to say "this is the president who was elected, and now we'll have to work with him as a partner of dubious reliability".  It's entirely another to say "no, no!  He's really a good guy and we should accept his worthy moral leadership!".  That's the kind of conduct in which I refuse to participate, and I am happy to condemn it in the abstract by citing 1 Kings 19 (and Isaiah 5:20, if you want to go there).  We all know who and what Trump is, we can all read the various apologias being offered for his character, and we can all draw conclusions about the applicability (or lack thereof) of the scriptures in question.

[prisonchaplain]

39 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

The pretext is, of course, that we're not. 

I'm not hearing too many accusations of pro-Trumpers gloating. In the Pacific NW we're mostly keeping our heads low, so we don't get hit by the flying debris that the other side is throwing around, amidst they're rioting.  My goal was just to point out the obvious and say, "Yeah, this is right.  This is the way we should go."

[NeuroTypical]

Random stuff:

* I have a Facebook buddy, recently sealed in the Albuquerque temple.  He just had his car stolen following anti-trump riots in downtown Albuquerque.

* Just found out who our first lady-to-be is/was.  Everybody else probably has known this for years, but I'm just looking it up for the first time tonight.  She has a huge portfolio of very saucy supermodel photos.  Some nude.  She was in a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue.  Her hubby looks a lot like her dad, and they're both similar ages. She wasn't an actual citizen of the US until one year after marrying the Donald.  She's only a few years older than Trump's son.   She doesn't seem to be, well, especially well-educated or accomplished, apart from her career of being beautiful for money.  But apparently she wasn't an escort for an Italian gentleman's club in the '90's - she apparently won that lawsuit.

 

[Blueskye2]

Vanessa Williams, Miss America crown revoked because she posed nude. That was in 1984. 

 “Honestly, when I bought [Miss Universe], the bathing suits got smaller and the heels got higher and the ratings went up.” --Donal Trump, January 2016, "Vanity Fair"

When Trump was being criticized for disrespecting a fallen U.S. serviceman, photos of his wife posing nude (or nearly nude) suddenly surfaced...and his ratings went up.  He's a showman, and knows what sells.

He's always been the stereotypical super rich playboy. I'm still shocked that he's our president elect. What a joke, on the American people. There is no way, when America was great, and actually held certain values and standards for its elected officials, that he would have won a primary, let alone a presidency. And he did it, supposedly, with those who claim to have values and standards, as his main supporters.  Unbelievable!  But here we are. Something higher was seen than values and standards, and all that became expendable.

Or maybe it's just a reflection of our society, in general, where those things became expendable a long time ago.

I look forward to the future with hope, not fear.  I support our constitutional republic and honor our electoral system. I respect the office of the president, but I have no respect, whatsoever, for the man who will be sworn into that office.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Blueskye2

[Blueskye2]

14 hours ago, anatess2 said:

No, it doesn't arise out of thin air.  It arose out of decades of masterful choreographed political strategy of the Democrat Party and a complicit media that then got piggy-backed on by the e-GOP to eat their own.  So, no, we don't cast disdain on those of the American rank and file that believe Trump (and all Republicans before him) raise concerns about racism, sexism, and religious bigotry.  We cast disdain on the political and media elites who are the architects of the modern stigma of racism, sexism, etc. on those who want to protect the Constitution and the Rule of Law and its tenets of Freedom for All.  After all, the LDS Church may say, "we were persecuted", but I am very sure they don't say, "so please break the law and immigrate to America" or even "please don't vet Muslims to find Muslim terrorists".

Edit:  This battle against the political elites and their collusion with a politicized media is still ongoing.  Tuesday did not resolve that in any shape way or form.  So yes, the work continues.

Sorry, this "elite" speachmaking by Trump and his supporters, is part of the problem. Just because people have different ideas and think differently than you, doesn't make them "elite". It's a buzzword, and buzzwords don't convey anything meaningful. 

That being said, where I work is very liberal and people at the office are sending around emails meant to console each other. Saying things like being ashamed for not being aware of people who felt so disenfranchised,  Do you want to hear stuff like that?Because frankly, I find it condescending, and am embarrassed that they are sending around the emails.  :/

Thers a deep divide, and isn't about elites and disenfranchised, it's about viewing the world in very different ways. Deeply different ways. If you want to say, mainstream media, of all types, from news to movies, doesn't tell the story of all Americans, then yeah I can agree with that. Neither story should be suppressed and neither should view other Americans as less than they view themselves. 

As for racism, I read a short explanation, that people who support Trump may not be as racist and bigoted as Trump, but they were willing to view his racism and bigotry as an expendable thing, which people take personally as they, themselves, being expendable to Trump supporters. 

Actions have consequences. Trump is not the savior that he's built himself up to be. He's just a man. Who is entering a world where he has no experience, which means he is going to make a lot of mistakes. He might get good at it by year four. I only hope that they are all relatively minor mistakes. 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Blueskye2

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

6 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

Random stuff:

* I have a Facebook buddy, recently sealed in the Albuquerque temple.  He just had his car stolen following anti-trump riots in downtown Albuquerque.

* Just found out who our first lady-to-be is/was.  Everybody else probably has known this for years, but I'm just looking it up for the first time tonight.  She has a huge portfolio of very saucy supermodel photos.  Some nude.  She was in a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue.  Her hubby looks a lot like her dad, and they're both similar ages. She wasn't an actual citizen of the US until one year after marrying the Donald.  She's only a few years older than Trump's son.   She doesn't seem to be, well, especially well-educated or accomplished, apart from her career of being beautiful for money.  But apparently she wasn't an escort for an Italian gentleman's club in the '90's - she apparently won that lawsuit.

 

About the stolen car...correlation is not causation.

About Melana....ew, ew, ew....I didn't know most of that.  Ew. 

[Backroads]

2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

About the stolen car...correlation is not causation.

 

That may be, but why didn't the protesters give behavior guidelines? why didn't they intervene when private property was affected?

It's mighty suspicious and I don't think it's fair to disregard casualties that happen around protests. if it has been the other party, would you have assumed correlation?

Edited November 11, 2016 by Backroads

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

1 hour ago, Backroads said:

That may be, but why didn't the protesters give behavior guidelines? why didn't they intervene when private property was affected?

It's mighty suspicious and I don't think it's fair to disregard casualties that happen around protests. if it has been the other party, would you have assumed correlation?

I think you misunderstood me.  Cars get stolen all the time. Cars were stolen before this election, and they will continue to be stolen for years to come. We can't assume that this was connected to the protests. That's just logic.  

Edited November 11, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[estradling75]

With Trump's win... the players switch sides but the dance remains the same.

The Republicans will do things that they decried the Democrats doing over the last 8 years...

The Democrats will do things that they decried the Republicans doing over the last 8 years..

Both with try to claim some kind of moral high ground to their actions, minimizing their own flaws while magnify their opposites flaws...  The hypocrisy of both sides will increase.