Best Post-Election Reaction

[Traveler]

11 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Unity is frustrating buzzword in politics because it means "unite under my values and forsake yours." In reality, it means absolutely nothing but it makes us feel better by saying it. 

How will pro-lifers "unite" with pro-chociers? How will gun rights advocates "unite" with gun control people? How will people against gay marriage "unite" with people who are for it? Will Black Lives Matter suddenly shake hands with police officers (or more importantly, vice versa)? How about the Trumpers vs the NeverTrumpers-if they "unite" that would mean....?

The truth is that this country is incredibly divided and it's not getting better anytime soon.

 

I think unity is more a state of mind than a political buzz word.  In our society we honor and glorify winners.  Winning is a great fault in almost every aspect of our society.  Not only do we demand a winner in everything we expand this mentality into a winner takes all attitude.  So prevalent is the worship of a winner and winner take all; that any degree of not winning becomes the dreaded and awful looser.   Thus we are programmed that loosing must be avoided at all costs.  There is nothing worse in our society than being a looser – being evil is more acceptable that being a looser. 

The key to unity is sacrifice – not winning for what we think is right.  Without sacrifice there never can be unity – ever.  Not now, not ever and not even in the eternal resurrection.  But we have defined sacrifice as a kind of losing – that is less than winning and taking it all.  Even in religion – most think of G-d as the ultimate winner rather than G-d making the ultimate sacrifice. 

 

The Traveler

[unixknight]

In general, I try to avoid using terms like "moronic" to describe something done by someone I disagree with, because I would ant the courtesy of them refraining from saying that about me, no matter how justified they may feel in doing so.

That said, I'm not prepared to call someone down for doing it in this case.  What we have with a video like the Van Jones speech is someone whose kids are suffering and they want to blame others for it. 

The problem with Van Jones' comments is that it can be turned right back.  He says there's a conflict now because even though you teach your kids not to be bullies, racists, etc. now we've elected such a person President and how do you tell your kids that?  Well, I teach my kids not to lie, not to break the law, not to support bullies, not to cover up the truth...   See where I'm going with this?

This kind of question must always come up in elections because we respond to negative ads, and so that's what we see and it's what our kids see.  No matter who won this election, those questions were going to come up.  Van Jones' comments, and this argument in general, has no teeth.  The same people who now have to explain to their kids why a bully is in the White House are the ones who couldn't stop telling those kids Trump was a bully in the first place.  They built their own house of cards and now want to blame others for it.

[Guest MormonGator]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

 

I think unity is more a state of mind than a political buzz word.  In our society we honor and glorify winners.  Winning is a great fault in almost every aspect of our society.  Not only do we demand a winner in everything we expand this mentality into a winner takes all attitude.  So prevalent is the worship of a winner and winner take all; that any degree of not winning becomes the dreaded and awful looser. 

So @Traveler if you are competing for your dream job against someone and you "win" by getting it, would you decline because you want the other guy to win it? In the real world winning and losing matters greatly. If you have to dirty your hands by working in sales you learn very quickly that winning means paying your bills and feeding your family. Losing means "Sorry kids, no meal today because daddy didn't feel like winning." 

Giving out participation trophies for last place and patting people on the back for getting D's because they tried really hard is a huge problem in our society. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by MormonGator

[Colirio]

This is was a quote that has helped me really cut through the political distractions and see the truth of what I feel the Lord expects of me. 

 

"Our news media today also seem to be interested mainly in controversial subjects or someone who is being attacked; and regardless of the ninety-nine good things one may do, it is the one weakness or error that alone is emphasized and heralded to the world.
      We are too prone to listen to, accept, and repeat such adverse criticism, such maliciously spoken or printed words, without stopping to realize the harm we may be doing to some noble person; and, as is done so often, we excuse and justify ourselves by saying, “Well, where there is so much smoke, there must be some fire,” whereas in reality we are adding to the smoke, when the fire referred to may be only the fire of malice started by some envious person."

 

"This being election year, there will be much campaigning; we will hear and argue the pros and cons of many questions; we will have strong opposing views. Each must try to understand the questions and then stand firm by his convictions. But let us determine now that in the heat of the campaign we will not indulge in the vituperative talk of personalities that we so often hear. We must not rail against our brother and accuse him of lying and cheating or being dishonest or immoral.
      Let us stand on principle--high principle. Also, it is most important that all of us, including our politicians, strive to live so that our actions will be above reproach and criticism."

- “Judge Not, That Ye Be Not Judged”

N. Eldon Tanner

Address delivered Saturday morning, April 8, 1972

[Windseeker]

LP, Don't you think there is a difference between race insensitive and racist? I believe Trump is the former but I don't believe he's racist. We need to stop supporting those who can't see the difference. People are tired of the lies.  

And when it comes to race insensitive, everyone fails at some point because some people are overly sensitive. Those who inject race into everything whether they realize or not are feeding racism and division.

For the last eight years the left has successfully turned, any opposition to Obama, any concern about our national security, any concern about education, any concern about the strength of families, any concern about the safety of children, any concern about the economy and any concern about crime into allegations of racism, sexism, homophobia and religious bigotry. 

The concerns people had the last 50 years about religion being intolerant, divisive, dogmatic and repressive of free thought are how I feel about the left in this country. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtlzPUtyBnI

These protests and incessant displays of glassy eyed ignorance have convinced me I was wrong not to vote for Trump. He's simply an equal opportunity offender of people, not a racist, bigot homophobe.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Windseeker
spelling

[Backroads]

4 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

You are right that that actions speak louder than words.  Just saying, "Note everyone hates you."  Is going to be meaningless, yes.  For example, a Black friend of mine shared a tweet from Charles Gabba, "Not all Trump supporters are racist, but all of them decided that racism isn't a deal-breaker.  End of story."  So yeah, she's not likely to believe just words.

But if you wanted to support your brothers and sisters (the lady that posted that is a member of the church) both in the church and out (we are all Heavenly Father's children)  there are simple things you could do, if you wanted to.  For starters, you could stop calling people whose choices you don't understand, "moronic parenting".  

Yes, I could work on being more sensitive in my words. You're right on that.

Still, it's hard when people like your friend accuse people like my father-in-law, a Trump supporter so much it was embarrassing, of not caring about race when he has worked, sacrificed for, and given to so many minorities that pass through his community. What are these accusers doing to open their hearts, to be less accusing to those who think differently? What are they doing to forgive others? It does not do any good to constantly play the defense and the victim. No person can grow that way.

 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

3 hours ago, Backroads said:

Yes, I could work on being more sensitive in my words. You're right on that.

Still, it's hard when people like your friend accuse people like my father-in-law, a Trump supporter so much it was embarrassing, of not caring about race when he has worked, sacrificed for, and given to so many minorities that pass through his community. What are these accusers doing to open their hearts, to be less accusing to those who think differently? What are they doing to forgive others? It does not do any good to constantly play the defense and the victim. No person can grow that way.

 

I'm sorry that happened to your father-in-law.  As you know, I don't like to see anyone unfairly treated.  Remember though, I've already agreed that their is hate flying around from both sides.  I don't recall any Conservatives here doing the same (except for Mormongator.)  So what is the Right doing to forgive others.  This is not directed at you personally (I promise) but I notice people are always eager to tell others to forgive and yet slow to do any forgiving themselves.  

How do you define playing the victim?  If a woman is being abused by her husband and she calls out for help, is she playing the victim?  To me "playing the victim" would mean someone pretending to be hurt or offended when there was no actual harm done.  That is not the case here....not even close.   When one is being mistreated growth does not come from simply taking the abuse.  No, the growth comes from establishing and defending one's boundaries.  That is what I see happening here.  

[Guest MormonGator]

14 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm sorry that happened to your father-in-law.  As you know, I don't like to see anyone unfairly treated.  Remember though, I've already agreed that their is hate flying around from both sides.  I don't recall any Conservatives here doing the same (except for Mormongator.)

Just to re-iterate I totally agree with @LiterateParakeet on this one, 100%. There IS a lot of hate coming from both sides right now. It would be naive of me to admit that my side (generally conservative or at the least, sympathetic to conservatism) is innocent. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

4 hours ago, Windseeker said:

LP, Don't you think there is a difference between race insensitive and racist? I believe Trump is the former but I don't believe he's racist. We need to stop supporting those who can't see the difference. People are tired of the lies.  And when it comes to race insensitive, everyone fails at some point because some people are overly sensitive. Those who inject race into everything whether they realize or not are feeding racism and division.

Absolutely, I agree with you that there is a difference between race insensitive and racist.  No problem there.  I disagree with you about Trump, but I'll just leave it at that.   

Who gets to make the call of who is being "overly sensitive" and "injecting race"?  It's white people who have the tendency to say that and to me it's the equivalent of "sit down, shut up and let me get back to watching my football game."  What reason do white people have to care about race as long as we are in the majority?  If we walked in their shoes for awhile (to coin a cliche) we might see things differently.

About the video, as I said to Backroads, I have acknowledged (more than once now) that there is wrong going on on both sides.  There is hate on both sides.  Are you ready to do the same and admit that some Trump supporters are throwing around hate as well? 

Quote

These protests and incessant displays of glassy eyed ignorance have convinced me I was wrong not to vote for Trump. He's simply an equal opportunity offender of people, not a racist, bigot homophobe.

We'll just have to disagree on this one.  Trust me the other side sees things happening from the Conservatives and makes them dig their heels in deeper as well.  It goes both ways.  

[NightSG]

21 minutes ago, LiterateParakeet said:

About the video, as I said to Backroads, I have acknowledged (more than once now) that there is wrong going on on both sides.  There is hate on both sides.  Are you ready to do the same and admit that some Trump supporters are throwing around hate as well? 

There have been numerous confirmed examples of hate, violence and destruction from the other side, but you have yet to post one confirmed report of anything worse than a bit of name calling in a place where, frankly, that probably happened plenty before Trump even announced his candidacy.

Confirmed, as in, not just some graffiti that no one saw being done, or someone's conveniently unsubstantiated and quite fishy story.

What we hate is being told what we think and feel.  What we hate is people deciding that they know the hearts of not only one man they've never met, but 60 million Americans they've never met.  What we really hate is gossip and lies being passed as truth and anyone who dares insist on the truth being called biased because the simple truth is that Trump supporters aren't taking to the streets to physically harm anyone, destroy property or tell children that the big bad Trump is going to deport everyone who's not at least a third generation citizen and lily white.

Face it, the truth is not on your side, and calling people biased for not pretending it is ain't going to convince anybody.

[Backroads]

1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

I'm sorry that happened to your father-in-law.  As you know, I don't like to see anyone unfairly treated.  Remember though, I've already agreed that their is hate flying around from both sides.  I don't recall any Conservatives here doing the same (except for Mormongator.)  So what is the Right doing to forgive others.  This is not directed at you personally (I promise) but I notice people are always eager to tell others to forgive and yet slow to do any forgiving themselves.  

How do you define playing the victim?  If a woman is being abused by her husband and she calls out for help, is she playing the victim?  To me "playing the victim" would mean someone pretending to be hurt orgnffended when there was no actual harm done.  That is not the case here....not even close.   When one is being mistreated growth does not come from simply taking the abuse.  No, the growth comes from establishing and defending one's boundaries.  That is what I see happening here.  

Nothing directly happened to my FiL, but you said your friend feels that anyone who voted from Trump doesn't care enough about racism and I find that a very broad, broad statement to make. It sounded as if your friend would feel that my FiL, simply by voting for Trump, didn't care about the racism problem enough despite all that he does.

To me, playing the victim is refusing to grow past the experience, to put the burden of fixing the problem entirely on someone else. 

At one of my teacher forums, there is a recent discussion about how tricky it is to teach in southern states as most tiffs will result in serious racism accusations. Many people feel like they're put in the position of having to fix all these problems. One group might state all the horrible things they've been through and put the onus on another group that may not necessarily deserve such responsibility. At what point does the offended group admit the other group has done all they reasonable can and that the former will have to make further progress either in more partnership or on their own?

I'm relating this to the feeling half the country hates us, or you, or whomever. It's terribly unfair to limit another group's voting philosophies into something so simple as "you don't care about racism." That's a huge burden to throw on someone.

Yes, we can all better try to sympathize and love those we disagree with, but having to automatically change our views to be worthy of giving sympathy and love is far from fair.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Backroads

[Windseeker]

2 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Who gets to make the call of who is being "overly sensitive" and "injecting race"?  It's white people who have the tendency to say that and to me it's the equivalent of "sit down, shut up and let me get back to watching my football game."  What reason do white people have to care about race as long as we are in the majority?  If we walked in their shoes for awhile (to coin a cliche) we might see things differently.

About the video, as I said to Backroads, I have acknowledged (more than once now) that there is wrong going on on both sides.  There is hate on both sides.  Are you ready to do the same and admit that some Trump supporters are throwing around hate as well? 

We'll just have to disagree on this one.  Trust me the other side sees things happening from the Conservatives and makes them dig their heels in deeper as well.  It goes both ways.  

If a persons racial sensitivity is to a point where they dehumanizing others based on race, judge others that because of their skin color they are incapable of experiencing and understanding the broad range of human emotion, particularly empathy, and feeling the need for segregation and safe spaces then that person is simply a racist. I understand what causes a person to hate and make judgments based on race, walking in my own shoes. In my own shoes I've been treated poorly because of my race. Racism and dehumanizing others is something we all must reject. 

I appreciate my son's reaction to his Latina friend who told me as a white person I had no right to an opinion and that I should think before I speak.
"You're going to tell someone who chose to marry a minority and raise 4 minority kids, as well as basically raise a half Mexican son of an illegal immigrate and a half Haitian nephew that he doesn't know what it's like to be a minority? As a white guy he is a minority, maybe you should think before you speak".

If you find your self saying "White people" to anything, be very careful to consider what it is you are saying. Are you generalizing and dehumanizing?

People are People. We ought not to make assumptions on a persons humanity, character or potential nor should we treat people differently because of their race. Ending racism starts with that simple truth.   

There is no way to right the wrongs of the past, there is no path to justice thru racism, discrimination, and hate. Martin Luther King was inspired with the only possible solution. "A color-blind society". 

And yes, there are hateful people on both sides no doubt. I agree with you.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Windseeker

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

12 hours ago, NightSG said:

There have been numerous confirmed examples of hate, violence and destruction from the other side, but you have yet to post one confirmed report of anything worse than a bit of name calling in a place where, frankly, that probably happened plenty before Trump even announced his candidacy.

So your stance is that your side can do no wrong?  No offense intended, but that's so unrealistic to me that it leaves nothing for us to talk about. 

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

16 hours ago, Backroads said:

Nothing directly happened to my FiL,

Wait. So, nothing...nothing directly happened to your FIL...but you are still offended.  That's pretty much what I defined above as victim stance.  I don't mean to be offensive, but you see how easy it is to throw that word around.

And you avoided my question about your side doing any wrong...so was that an oversight or do you agree with NightSG? You can keep telling yourselves that the hate is only coming from one side...denial is a choice.  

West Virginia mayor slammed, nonprofit boss fired after saying Michelle Obama is 'ape in heels'

She says her comment was "misconstrued as racism".  I don't think that word means what she thinks it means.  This would be hilarious if it were not so hateful. 

NPR: Hundreds of Hateful Incidents Reported After Trumps Victory

The Right loves Vets....unless they are black, apparently
Black veteran says he was refused free Veteran's Day meal at Chili's after man in Trump shirt questioned his service

Hate crimes against Muslims up 67 percent in 2015, FBI says

The Trump Effect: The Impact of the Presidential Campaign on Our Nation's Schools

If I had the time, I could list tons more.   

Edited November 15, 2016 by LiterateParakeet

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

11 hours ago, Windseeker said:

If a persons racial sensitivity is to a point where they dehumanizing others based on race, judge others that because of their skin color they are incapable of experiencing and understanding the broad range of human emotion, particularly empathy, and feeling the need for segregation and safe spaces then that person is simply a racist. I understand what causes a person to hate and make judgments based on race, walking in my own shoes. In my own shoes I've been treated poorly because of my race. Racism and dehumanizing others is something we all must reject. 

I appreciate my son's reaction to his Latina friend who told me as a white person I had no right to an opinion and that I should think before I speak.
"You're going to tell someone who chose to marry a minority and raise 4 minority kids, as well as basically raise a half Mexican son of an illegal immigrate and a half Haitian nephew that he doesn't know what it's like to be a minority? As a white guy he is a minority, maybe you should think before you speak".

If you find your self saying "White people" to anything, be very careful to consider what it is you are saying. Are you generalizing and dehumanizing?

People are People. We ought not to make assumptions on a persons humanity, character or potential nor should we treat people differently because of their race. Ending racism starts with that simple truth.   

There is no way to right the wrongs of the past, there is no path to justice thru racism, discrimination, and hate. Martin Luther King was inspired with the only possible solution. "A color-blind society". 

And yes, there are hateful people on both sides no doubt. I agree with you.

There are some things we can agree on and others that we don't.  I will agree with you on this:
Empathy is lacking on BOTH sides of this issue.  No doubt about that.

There is hate and judgments based on race on BOTH sides.

People are people, we should judge them as individuals.  True.

The areas where we disagree, I have already explained (here or in other discussions). It would be redundant for me to repeat it again.  (What I mean is...there is more there than I have time to unpack.)

[Windseeker]

3 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

There are some things we can agree on and others that we don't.  I will agree with you on this:
Empathy is lacking on BOTH sides of this issue.  No doubt about that.

There is hate and judgments based on race on BOTH sides.

People are people, we should judge them as individuals.  True.

The areas where we disagree, I have already explained (here or in other discussions). It would be redundant for me to repeat it again.  (What I mean is...there is more there than I have time to unpack.)

Would you agree that racism is racism?

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

32 minutes ago, Windseeker said:

Would you agree that racism is racism?

Language can be a complicated thing.  When I say forgiveness, feminist . . . racism...we may think of very different things but assume we are talking about the same thing.   So if you want to define racism . . . to be sure we're on the same page.  

[NightSG]

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

NPR: Hundreds of Hateful Incidents Reported After Trumps Victory

Oooh, NPR getting their "facts" from SPLC.  Hang on, let me dig up some InfoWars articles to refute that.  

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

The Right loves Vets....unless they are black, apparently
Black veteran says he was refused free Veteran's Day meal at Chili's after man in Trump shirt questioned his service

Idiot manager who should have just offered the complainer a doggie bag and the Stolen Valor website to pursue his claim.  

And it's Cedar Hill; sort of like Alabama, but without the culture.

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Hate crimes against Muslims up 67 percent in 2015, FBI says

Predicting Trump's win that early?  Surprised they weren't too busy buying lottery tickets.

5 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

The Trump Effect: The Impact of the Presidential Campaign on Our Nation's Schools

A) SPLC again.  Ask Art Bell for the rebuttal.

B) Irrational fears.  Makes as much sense as saying that large black men are obviously evil and hateful because some elderly white women fear them.

 

Some thin skinned whiners getting their widdle feewings hurted isn't even close to the actual destruction and injury from the other side.

[NeuroTypical]

I have a great respect for the Stratfor organization as a source of legitimate news and trends.  They make money by being correct, not by forwarding agendas.  So when they talk about the possibility of increased violence in the U.S., I listen, whereas I take everyone else and their links with a grain of salt.  Here's what Stratfor has to say about the Post-Election Threat Environment:

Quote

In the early hours of Nov. 9 small groups of demonstrators opposing Donald J. Trump’s electoral victory spontaneously took to the streets in Oakland, CA, and Portland, OR, disrupting traffic and causing property damage. Many more demonstrations have since been held across the country and many more will likely arise elsewhere over the coming days and weeks. The spontaneous outbursts, though small, have the potential to form into a larger and more organized movement given the high rate of dissatisfaction with the president-elect. Even a small minority (tens of thousands of people) could create a nationwide protest movement. Though protests are unlikely to make much of a political difference, and winter weather would limit turnout, dedicated demonstrators could cause disruptions and property damage and create headaches for security professionals.

They specifically mention the Service Employee International Union (good at organizing scores of protests around minimum wage), pro-immigration groups (like the National Council of La Raza), BLM, Black Blocs, anarchists, and various right-wing groups.
 

Quote

 

Though a Trump win could subdue some of his more aggressive supporters, it could also encourage them. We have already seen such emboldenment on an individual level in the days following the election.

Compounding all this is the jihadist threat from groups such as the Islamic State, al-Qaeda franchises and other sympathizers. These groups are already doing everything they can to attack the United States domestically and U.S. interests abroad, so it is unlikely the attack tempo will change significantly as a result of the election. But the Islamic State is already exploiting the election results for propaganda purposes, claiming Trump’s election represents the “eminent demise of America.” Jihadists have been making this claim for a while, though, regardless of the administration in power. Jihadist propaganda will certainly use Trump’s election to try to alienate and radicalize Muslims in the United States and elsewhere.

What to look for

Based on the first 24 hours after the election results came in, it looks like verbal threats and isolated incidents of violence will be the norm on both sides of the political spectrum. We need to watch the trends carefully to determine whether this is a just a brief adjustment phase as emotions settle after the election or if these indicate longer term patterns.

The United States has a long history of peaceful transitions of power and settling political disputes through elections rather than on the streets. But given this year’s unusually heated campaign, it is worth laying out some benchmarks to help chart any tendencies towards the types of disruptions and violence outlined above:

Signs of continued inflammatory rhetoric from leaders on either side. The war of words between leaders should be over, and the statements from major national leaders on Nov. 9 indicate high-level rhetoric is moving towards reconciliation. It will be important to watch for signs that public rhetoric is moving back towards divisiveness.

Increased acts of violence against foreigners, the LGBT community or government offices. This would suggest an emboldened nativist movement such as we saw in the United Kingdom immediately after voters there chose to leave the European Union. There is already a growing body of anecdotal evidence that Trump supporters and opposers are using the election results to justify verbal and physical attacks. In the states, it will be important to watch for rumblings from right-wing militias (such as the Three Percent Group, who were linked to an attempted attack on a mosque in Kansas) and among the sovereignist and land rights movement. The latter has been emboldened by the recent acquittal of the Malheur defendants in Oregon.

A maturing protest and/or civil disobedience movement. Will the anti-Trump protest reaction fizzle or catch? Demonstrations so far have been relatively small and spontaneous, but larger, more organized demonstrations with a coherent purpose would signal a stronger movement.

 

 

[Guest]

http://reason.com/blog/2016/11/11/election-night-hijab-attack-false

[Guest Godless]

3 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

I have a great respect for the Stratfor organization as a source of legitimate news and trends.  They make money by being correct, not by forwarding agendas.  So when they talk about the possibility of increased violence in the U.S., I listen, whereas I take everyone else and their links with a grain of salt.  Here's what Stratfor has to say about the Post-Election Threat Environment:

They specifically mention the Service Employee International Union (good at organizing scores of protests around minimum wage), pro-immigration groups (like the National Council of La Raza), BLM, Black Blocs, anarchists, and various right-wing groups.
 

 

I attended Bush's inauguration in 2000. There were a lot of (peaceful) protesters at various parts of the DC mall. As I recall, periodic protests and political rallies were fairly common under Bush, especially after we invaded Iraq. I have no doubt that the protests will eventually become more peaceful, and it is my sincere hope that violence against minorities doesn't become a lingering issue. That being said, I don't think the protest culture is going away anytime soon. I just hope that they eventually get turned more towards the real culprit behind this election result, the DNC. Democrats became their own worst enemy in this election, and there needs to be a massive overhaul if there's any hope to get some more blue seats in Congress in the midterms. 

[Guest MormonGator]

20 minutes ago, Godless said:

I attended Bush's inauguration in 2000. There were a lot of (peaceful) protesters at various parts of the DC mall. As I recall, periodic protests and political rallies were fairly common under Bush, especially after we invaded Iraq. I have no doubt that the protests will eventually become more peaceful, and it is my sincere hope that violence against minorities doesn't become a lingering issue. That being said, I don't think the protest culture is going away anytime soon. I just hope that they eventually get turned more towards the real culprit behind this election result, the DNC. Democrats became their own worst enemy in this election, and there needs to be a massive overhaul if there's any hope to get some more blue seats in Congress in the midterms. 

I'm all for peaceful protest. In fact, I think it's fundamental to democracy because it keeps politicians on their toes. Democrat or republican-I do not want them to be conformable. They work for us. 

 

[Windseeker]

1 hour ago, MormonGator said:

I'm all for peaceful protest. In fact, I think it's fundamental to democracy because it keeps politicians on their toes. Democrat or republican-I do not want them to be conformable. They work for us. 

 

I agree but I doubt I'm the only one who in the space of a week finds these protests have grown as tiresome and ineffective as the icebucket challenge.

[Guest MormonGator]

56 minutes ago, Windseeker said:

I agree but I doubt I'm the only one who in the space of a week finds these protests have grown as tiresome and ineffective as the icebucket challenge.

lol. The ice bucket challenge was fun and it really did raise money for a great cause. We can peck about this or that about it but in reality it was very much a positive. 

The protesters have made their point, I agree. I guess I'd ask them what they want to accomplish. I see that all the time in politics. People love protesting, they love marching and organizing and when you ask them what they want to accomplish, they don't have a clear and concise answer. 

These people need to read "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. Which in fairness should be read by everyone. 

Edited November 15, 2016 by MormonGator

[Backroads]

13 hours ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Wait. So, nothing...nothing directly happened to your FIL...but you are still offended.  That's pretty much what I defined above as victim stance.  I don't mean to be offensive, but you see how easy it is to throw that word around.

And you avoided my question about your side doing any wrong...so was that an oversight or do you agree with NightSG? You can keep telling yourselves that the hate is only coming from one side...denial is a choice.  

 

I'll be honest... I'm way third-party over here. I agree that the other side has done plenty of wrong and have witnessed it.