what if you don't want to become an endowed member?

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Because at work no one pretends to believe in the forced politeness.  It's done because it's (usually) less counterproductive than fistfights in the aisles.

I disagree.  I think a real fistfight would solve all our problems at my office.

[Guest MormonGator]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I disagree.  I think a real fistfight would solve all our problems at my office.

lol!!!!!!! 

[Guest MormonGator]

I have this picture of @NightSG and @Carborendum breaking out the brass knuckles now. 

[NightSG]

7 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

I disagree.  I think a real fistfight would solve all our problems at my office.

Hence the (usually).  I've definitely worked a few places it would help immensely.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

I have this picture of @NightSG and @Carborendum breaking out the brass knuckles now. 

He's certainly have me on strength.  But I've got him on technique.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Hence the (usually).  I've definitely worked a few places it would help immensely.  

Yes, I saw the "usually".  But I just had to write that clever line.  Yes, it really was clever.  MG agrees 

[NightSG]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

He's certainly have me on strength.  But I've got him on technique.

I'm getting there.  Aikido and progressive jiujitsu are combining pretty well, especially with a bit of daito thrown in.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, NightSG said:

I'm getting there.  Aikido and progressive jiujitsu are combining pretty well, especially with a bit of daito thrown in.

I'm studying an eclectic art that has some Aikido, jiujitsu, judo, and Filipino techniques (among others).  Unfortunately, the sword (Korean swords tend to be straight unlike the curved Japanese swords) and other bladed weapons are only available at 1st degree black belt.  I'm not there yet.  Although, I think maybe the sword is the one that is available at brown belt.  The lower belt weapons are limited to staff, bo, short sticks, nunchaku, and three stick.  But I think my madrone staff could put up with your daito pretty well.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Guest

[zil]

4 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I let my temple recommend expire and in fairness no one cares. 

I care.  Do whatever you have to to get it back.  Even if you don't go.

Edited November 29, 2016 by zil
added "it"

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

All I'm saying is that people will respond better to others who are genuine and authentic, than to fakery. 

This.  And the problem is not with the YW leadership but with your daughter.  When the leadership asked her to fellowship the other young women they didn't intend for your daughter to comply by using fakery... the solution would have been for your daughter to figure out a way to TRULY care for her sisters instead of being fake with them.

My son is my example on this.  My son is "out there".  He is who he is everywhere he goes.  So, in his school, everybody knows he's The Mormon.  He has 2 best friends in school - one is a devout Catholic, the other is a self-proclaimed Atheist (his "dad" is a woman married to his mother).  They're all in the music program in the school so they talk a lot about music and whatever teen-age boys talk about.  He invites both of them to church all the time, including church activities, etc.  They never come.  But they come spend some weekends at my house with all of my son's other friends including his church friends.  They all talk about religion just like they talk about music and whatever teen-age boys talk about.  They go home when we leave the house for Church.  There's no fakery here. 

Then, he goes to jiujitsu.  He is The Mormon there too.  He has friends from jiujitsu and they talk about martial arts and sports and whatever teen-age boys talk about.  He invites them to church all the time and 4 of them have been regular attendees.  One of them got baptized even.  But they all - including the ones who doesn't want anything to do with the church - come spend some weekends at my house too with all of my son's other friends including his church friends.  They all talk about religion just like they talk about jiujitsu and whatever teen-age boys talk about.  No fakery there either.

Then, there's the neighborhood kids.... same deal.

My son doesn't do "fake".  He loves people.  Young and old and everybody in between.  They know he's a Mormon in the same manner that they know he's an amazing pianist jiujitsu practitioner whose girlfriend lives over 2,000 miles away whose mother is ok with a quadzillion kids having impromptu sleep-over at his house but they'll have to go home before church on Sunday otherwise, they get 3 hours of Mormonism even if all they have on is a pair of raggedy shorts and flipflops....  It's just part of who he is.

Edited November 29, 2016 by anatess2

[anatess2]

@dahlia, you can't go to the temple for endowments immediately after baptism.  It takes at least 1 year to prepare for it.  So, if you don't want to prepare for it, then the 1 year becomes longer and longer and longer.  There's no timeline.  Everyone is in their own journey in their own pace and in their own level of progression.  The Church will NEVER impede your progress even if it is on a 2 steps forward and 1 step back snail's pace.

Progression doesn't stop.  Even when we die, it continues.  Even when we make it to the Celestial Kingdom, it still continues.  There are certain milestones - baptism, confirmation, ordination, endowment, eternal marriage, etc.  You make it to the first step you continue to progress to the next even if it takes you more than a mortal lifetime to get there.

We are commanded to LOVE others as we love ourselves.  LOVE is that burning desire to bring others closer to Christ with us.  Therefore, those who love you will always try to serve you and help you make that next step in your progression.  Unfortunately, we don't all know how to go about fulfilling that desire.  We are mortals prone to mortal failings.  So, we try to use mortal tools like - goals and numbers - to make us feel better about our efforts and so we don't lose hope in our LOVE and fall into the trap of despair.  Those who love us will cut us some slack for our "mortalness" even when they prove to be ineffective because they know we simply don't know how else to bring others closer to Christ.

So, when someone is impeded to take the next step in their progression to get closer to Christ by something as relatively simple as Garments then those who love that someone will try to "solve the problem of Garments" so they can get closer to Christ.  You shouldn't resent them for the effort because you love Christ and it is Christ that commanded them to love others as they love themselves.  But yes, if their efforts are causing the opposite effect - getting you even farther from Christ than closer to Christ - then it would be great if you can let them know so they can stop what they're doing and re-evaluate.

 

So, in our ward... we have the wife of our Gospel Principles teacher who has been attending church for at least 3 years now.  She's not baptized and has no intention of getting baptized.  We have a 9-year-old whose grandmother just got endowed a few months ago.  He likes coming to church and even attends scouts - been there since he was a Tiger Cub attending the Wolf Den (because we don't have a Tiger Den).  He's not baptized either because his mom doesn't approve.  Now, his grandmother has been a member since she got baptized at 8 years old.  She just got her endowments a few months ago... I think she's in her late 60's now.

[Vort]

14 hours ago, priesthoodpower said:

If you are a prime candidate to receive endowment the leaders will push you toward that goal because they themselves have a numbers goal to reach.

I gotta say, this is far more cynical than I can really stomach. I do not believe that this is the primary motivation for any of the bishops and stake president I have had and known. I don't believe it's really even a secondary motivation. At most, it has been a nudge to get them going in the right direction.

[Vort]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

I let my temple recommend expire and in fairness no one cares. 

I expect this is not so. Those who love you and have duties of spiritual oversight for you are probably concerned. The fact that they don't call you out and lecture you doesn't mean they aren't concerned.

[Vort]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

so they talk a lot about music and whatever teen-age boys talk about

I love a mother's innocence.

[anatess2]

9 minutes ago, Vort said:

I love a mother's innocence.

Yes.  I want to stay innocent.  That's their father's job to figure out what that is teen-age boys talk about...

P.S.  Yes, it still bothers me when my 2 boys do huddles with their dad whispering about seemingly important stuff and I ask - what are you talking about?  And all 3 reply - boy stuff.  But yeah, I blame that on my husband who didn't give me the necessary chromosomes for a daughter so I can hold my own huddles...

Edited November 29, 2016 by anatess2

[An Investigator]

I was in the same position tbh, I can't do my endowments yet as I've not been a member but before I got baptised I was very much like oh I don't want to go.  I didn't see the point as my husband isn't a member.    I'm not sure if I want to go do them as soon as I'm able which will be April but after doing baptisms I definitely want to go at some point.     I was abit worried too about how my husband would react to me wearing garments, I showed him the Church video on them and he was like well.. not the most attractive of things but I'm assuming they come off hahaha.   

[Vort]

7 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

not the most attractive of things but I'm assuming they come off hahaha

See, men cut to the heart of the matter.

[NeuroTypical]

14 hours ago, dahlia said:

I would hate to be someone's 'project.'

Heh - @dahlia, I feel for you.  My family has, for various reasons over the decades, been a project for various church folks at various times.  I've learned to treat the whole thing with good-natured humor and some witty zingers.

Absolute best example ever: I was in Bishopric/Ward Council one week, standing in for our Ward Clerk who was on vacation.  They were giving updates on various efforts with various families.  The poor guy who had just had my family over for dinner had to give a report on having us over for dinner, even though I was sitting there in the room looking at him.  The poor brother - he is a good, genuine man, he was so embarrassed.  I didn't make it easy on him - I pretended to tear up and said (trying not to giggle) "So that's all I am to you?  Just a checkbox?"  

I then directly addressed the elephant, voicing appreciation for all the efforts over the years with my family.  I also mentioned it was not the first time some poor soul had to give an update on what they had done the NT family, with NT in the room.

 

Dahlia, even if someone becomes a project, it's important to remember why.  The purest of Christlike motivations are usually the motivations.  The  numbers and quotas and activation goals and all, are ways to try to turn the Christlike motivations into actions that bless lives.  Sometimes folks forget to remember this, but usually if they spend five seconds quietly reflecting about it, they remember pretty quickly. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by NeuroTypical

[anatess2]

22 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

 

Dahlia, even if someone becomes a project, it's important to remember why.  The purest of Christlike motivations are usually the motivations.  The  numbers and quotas and activation goals and all, are ways to try to turn the Christlike motivations into actions that bless lives.  Sometimes folks forget to remember this, but usually if they spend five seconds quietly reflecting about it, they remember pretty quickly. 

My mother, even after 11 years, have been sending my name to the Carmelite Sisters to pray for my salvation.  She still asks me when I'm going to come back to the Church.  And she still tells me the LDS Church is of the devil.  I love her for it.  Goes to show how much she loves me and fears for my eternal soul.

[NightSG]

2 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm studying an eclectic art that has some Aikido, jiujitsu, judo, and Filipino techniques (among others).  Unfortunately, the sword (Korean swords tend to be straight unlike the curved Japanese swords) and other bladed weapons are only available at 1st degree black belt.  I'm not there yet.  Although, I think maybe the sword is the one that is available at brown belt.  The lower belt weapons are limited to staff, bo, short sticks, nunchaku, and three stick.  But I think my madrone staff could put up with your daito pretty well.

Swords tend to be impractical outside the house.  Even most of the sticks aren't really as sensible these days, with the exception of hanbo (cane) and yawara.  Wandering the streets with a bo or nunchaku isn't likely to end well.

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Then, he goes to jiujitsu.  He is The Mormon there too.  He has friends from jiujitsu and they talk about martial arts and sports and whatever teen-age boys talk about.  He invites them to church all the time and 4 of them have been regular attendees.

It helps when they realize Ed Parker was LDS.

[Jane_Doe]

30 minutes ago, An Investigator said:

I was in the same position tbh, I can't do my endowments yet as I've not been a member but before I got baptised I was very much like oh I don't want to go.  I didn't see the point as my husband isn't a member.    I'm not sure if I want to go do them as soon as I'm able which will be April but after doing baptisms I definitely want to go at some point.     I was abit worried too about how my husband would react to me wearing garments, I showed him the Church video on them and he was like well.. not the most attractive of things but I'm assuming they come off hahaha.   

That's sums up my husband's thoughts too.

[anatess2]

27 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Swords tend to be impractical outside the house.  Even most of the sticks aren't really as sensible these days, with the exception of hanbo (cane) and yawara.  Wandering the streets with a bo or nunchaku isn't likely to end well.

It helps when they realize Ed Parker was LDS.

The Filipino martial arts use hanbo but you're not expected to be carrying one around.  They use hanbo because it is the most available stick on the streets of the Philippines - you can break one off a tree growing in the side of the street or break one off a piece of furniture, etc. when you find yourself caught in a fight.  The short stick/long stick/sword/knife/open-hand training in true Filipino Martial Arts is designed so you get comfortable with anything available when you get caught in a street fight.  So, you're walking the street and somebody tries to beat you up... you quickly scan the vicinity and see a pipe handy... so you employ your short stick skills....  you see a machete (common in the Philippines) you use your sword skills... if you come up with nothing at all... then you get to fight open-hand... etc.

 

Edited November 29, 2016 by anatess2

[NightSG]

32 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

The Filipino martial arts use hanbo but you're not expected to be carrying one around.

Assuming your opponent is going to give you time/opportunity to even pick something up that's laying close at hand seems awfully optimistic.

I should probably take the next good opportunity to get a MRI of the knee I trashed ~20 years ago, just in case I ever need justification for carrying a cane somewhere I wouldn't be able to get anything else in.

[anatess2]

19 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Assuming your opponent is going to give you time/opportunity to even pick something up that's laying close at hand seems awfully optimistic.

I should probably take the next good opportunity to get a MRI of the knee I trashed ~20 years ago, just in case I ever need justification for carrying a cane somewhere I wouldn't be able to get anything else in.

You can carry one around if you like.  But a good Filipino Martial Artist doesn't require to carry one.  The thought that you will need to "assume your opponent is going to give you time..." is already failing the arts.

I mean, look at all those Martial Arts movies - especially the Chinese ones... heck let's just look at Ip Man... they don't carry weapons around.  Everything becomes a weapon, even the feather duster.  Or your clothes.  That's part of the Art.

Edited November 29, 2016 by anatess2

[Guest MormonGator]

17 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Assuming your opponent is going to give you time/opportunity to even pick something up that's laying close at hand seems awfully optimistic.

Something a good martial artist remembers is that their opponent is the toughest, meanest, strongest person in the world. Never, ever under estimate them. That's what both Bruce Lee and Ed Parker taught. No matter how strong and tough and skilled you think you are (and you might very well be!)-you will lose from time to time and you will get your butt kicked. 

If I meet someone in marital arts who says they've never lost in sparring or in a "real fight" (a true garbage term) I know immediately I've met a liar. 

Edited November 29, 2016 by MormonGator