Guest

How come there was no temple in the Garden of Eden?

Recommended Posts

Guest

Temples are houses of God, yet in the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were just in nature and didn't worship in a temple. Another question is why were altars used up until King Solomon? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob weren't worshipping in temples and they're considered already exalted. Moses had a traveling altar with him and the people of Israel. Adam built an altar after being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. So why weren't temples come into play in the scriptures until King Solomon? Were the people before him just traveling from one place to another too much to build a stable house of worship to remain in one place, or is there a deeper meaning? Now we have 155 dedicated LDS temples in use around the world and I live within a 30 minute drive of 4 temples. Are we just spoiled today? Also, do you think there will be temples in the Celestial Kingdom?

Edited by Zarahemla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Temples are houses of God, yet in the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were just in nature and didn't worship in a temple. 

The entire Garden of Eden was house of God.  

25 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Another question is why were altars used up until King Solomon? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob weren't worshipping in temples and they're considered already exalted. Moses had a traveling altar with him and the people of Israel. Adam built an altar after being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. So why weren't temples come into play in the scriptures until King Solomon? Were the people before him just traveling from one place to another too much to build a stable house of worship to remain in one place, or is there a deeper meaning? 

Big picture: as long as their have been worshipper of Him, there has been a house of His.  The physical location/style of such temples have varied through time.  Pre-fall, the entire Garden of Eden.  Post-fall, an alter built unto the Lord as a place to worship.  Burning bush location.  Arch of the Covenant.  Various mountains.  Solomon's Temple.  Herod's temple.  Modern day temple.  Etc.   They why of this is in short "because that's what God asked for".  Why did He ask for different things at different time is an involved question, with a lot of guessing on our part.

25 minutes ago, Zarahemla said:

Also, do you think there will be temples in the Celestial Kingdom?

The entire Celestial Kingdom is by definition House of God.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

I agree that the entire Celestial Kingdom is the House of God, but I'm just wondering if there will be a physical building or mansion in the Celestial Kingdom where we will worship. I don't see a need since you said the entire CK is House of God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

But a question I have is how are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already exalted and gods as described in D&C 132 if they never had their temple endowments and marriage sealing done in a dedicated temple? Does that lesson the importance of having a temple if they can have their work done outside a temple and still be exalted? Does the actual temple ceremony matter that much or is it mainly about individual worthiness since children who die before the age of 8 are exalted but we don't do their temple work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zarahemla said:

But a question I have is how are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already exalted and gods as described in D&C 132 if they never had their temple endowments and marriage sealing done in a dedicated temple? Does that lesson the importance of having a temple if they can have their work done outside a temple and still be exalted? Does the actual temple ceremony matter that much or is it mainly about individual worthiness since children who die before the age of 8 are exalted but we don't do their temple work?

But a question I have is how are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already exalted and gods as described in D&C 132 if they never had their temple endowments and marriage sealing done in a dedicated temple?

A temple (the actual structures we build today) are not necessarily required edifices for saving priesthood ordinances. The ordinances can be accomplished through different means; however, in our day, a temple is where these ordinances take place. As they are exalted then they would have to had these ordinances performed. In scripture, some interpret the Lord taking Nephi and others away to a mountain is symbolic of ordinances being performed.

Does that lesson the importance of having a temple if they can have their work done outside a temple and still be exalted?

No, not in the least.

Does the actual temple ceremony matter that much or is it mainly about individual worthiness since children who die before the age of 8 are exalted but we don't do their temple work?

Baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, Priesthood (for men), Endowments, and Sealing are the most important ordinances, and however the Lord has designated the should be accomplished that is what is most important. As we know the temple endowment has changed, our worthiness will be most important; although, both are essential. The most important aspect is that what is done is sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, and if so, then we are OK.

Children under the age of 8 are "alive in Christ" and need not all saving ordinances. Sealings to parents are still accomplished though, and to some degree these individuals will be paired off with a companion. Identifying the importance of linking us all. How and when, unrevealed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Creation, we learn there is a battle between order and chaos.  Water and Darkness are symbols of Chaos in the Creation. God puts them in abeyance by ordering, "Let there be Light", and then dividing the lands from the waters.  When the Garden arose from the waters, it became a symbol of God's Order.  Today's temples, just like Mt Sinai, Noah's Ark, and the Garden of Eden, are places of God's Order (a House of Order) in a world of Chaos and Darkness.

In ancient times, prior to physical temples, altars in the wilderness were temples. The story of Jacob's ladder (staircase) is a perfect example of a sacred space in the wilderness. In the early days of Nauvoo, God allowed baptisms for the dead to occur in the river. God determines what is a holy site/temple, not us. And sealings and ordinances are provided by God in his own way for each generation. So, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were sealed, etc., in God's way for their time.  Also, we learn in D&C 137, that God gives to people the blessings they would have accepted in life, even if they have yet to receive them (Joseph Smith's brother Alvin was in heaven, even though he had yet to be baptized).

What is most important in the temple ceremony are the covenants and promises made. Secondly, the temple becomes a place of revelation, specifically on the mysteries of godliness (D&C 84). The endowment and initiatory prepare us to enter into God's presence and see Him face to face.  We practice entering God's presence.  In the sealing, we join ourselves and our families to the Family of God.  The Book of Mormon tells us that children who die before the age of 8, only need to be sealed to their parents. They are alive in Christ. We do not know whether they will receive some ordinances, once they become spiritual adults. As it is, it seems to me that someday they will receive priesthood and to be sealed to their own spouses, as a minimum.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rameumptom said:

 Also, we learn in D&C 137, that God gives to people the blessings they would have accepted in life, even if they have yet to receive them (Joseph Smith's brother Alvin was in heaven, even though he had yet to be baptized).

A minor quibble with your otherwise awesome post:  Since Joseph also saw his parents in heaven during this vision, and they were still living at the time; doesn't this suggest that he was seeing a future state?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, rameumptom said:

Nice to see your ugly mug, too, Vort.  :)

I resemble that remark.

It sometimes occurs to me that new members to the board assume I'm a pretty young woman. I get a kick out of that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
2 hours ago, Vort said:

I resemble that remark.

It sometimes occurs to me that new members to the board assume I'm a pretty young woman. I get a kick out of that.

I'm a pretty, pretty princess... Or and over sized grindstone.

Edited by Guest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/08/2016 at 0:34 AM, Just_A_Guy said:

A minor quibble with your otherwise awesome post:  Since Joseph also saw his parents in heaven during this vision, and they were still living at the time; doesn't this suggest that he was seeing a future state?

Possibly. Or he was seeing a representation, based on current righteousness and holy desires.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2016 at 6:15 PM, Zarahemla said:

But a question I have is how are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already exalted and gods as described in D&C 132 if they never had their temple endowments and marriage sealing done in a dedicated temple? Does that lesson the importance of having a temple if they can have their work done outside a temple and still be exalted? Does the actual temple ceremony matter that much or is it mainly about individual worthiness since children who die before the age of 8 are exalted but we don't do their temple work?

You assume that the same ordinances expected of us today we're required in ancient times. I very much doubt this. 

Baptism was never required of people until Christ's time (at the earliest). The endowment as we recognize it didn't exist until Joseph Smith. There is no evidence of anything like celestial marriage until the LDS church.

Priesthood ordination has not always been considered a saving ordinance (and I have my doubts that it really is today).

So it seems that the expectations of ordinancestors and commandments have been variable through the ages. I think it would be wise not to apply what is expected of us to those of other times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 03/12/2016 at 9:15 PM, Zarahemla said:

But a question I have is how are Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob already exalted and gods as described in D&C 132 if they never had their temple endowments and marriage sealing done in a dedicated temple? Does that lesson the importance of having a temple if they can have their work done outside a temple and still be exalted? Does the actual temple ceremony matter that much or is it mainly about individual worthiness since children who die before the age of 8 are exalted but we don't do their temple work?

Whenever God revealed Himself to men He did so in holy places. Temple buildings were built whenever there was a group of worshipers, such as the Israelites after the exodus.  When the number of worshipers was few, God revealed His truths in deserts and upon high mountains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, MarginOfError said:

You assume that the same ordinances expected of us today we're required in ancient times. I very much doubt this. 

Baptism was never required of people until Christ's time (at the earliest). The endowment as we recognize it didn't exist until Joseph Smith. There is no evidence of anything like celestial marriage until the LDS church.

Priesthood ordination has not always been considered a saving ordinance (and I have my doubts that it really is today).

So it seems that the expectations of ordinancestors and commandments have been variable through the ages. I think it would be wise not to apply what is expected of us to those of other times.

I think there were analogs.  For example, I think the principle of faith in Jesus, and repentance, were indeed betokened by some sort of ritual immersion and that vestiges of it survive in modern Jewish mikvot.  Was the verbiage and physical form pertaining to that ceremony, precisely the same as it is now?  Our own scriptures tell us it the verbiage has changed over time (Isaiah's warnings about "chang[ing] the ordinances" notwithstanding). 

I have no problem with the notion that the Lord's people, except in times of apostasy, have always understood at least in general terms that marriage was supposed to be eternal; that principles like obedience and sacrifice and chastity and gospel living and consecration need to be memorialized by solemn covenant; and so on.  Whether the rituals that signified these principles existed in their modern form--like you, I strongly doubt that to be the case.

Edited by Just_A_Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/3/2016 at 5:20 PM, Zarahemla said:

Temples are houses of God, yet in the Garden of Eden Adam and Eve were just in nature and didn't worship in a temple. Another question is why were altars used up until King Solomon? Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob weren't worshipping in temples and they're considered already exalted. Moses had a traveling altar with him and the people of Israel. Adam built an altar after being kicked out of the Garden of Eden. So why weren't temples come into play in the scriptures until King Solomon? Were the people before him just traveling from one place to another too much to build a stable house of worship to remain in one place, or is there a deeper meaning? Now we have 155 dedicated LDS temples in use around the world and I live within a 30 minute drive of 4 temples. Are we just spoiled today? Also, do you think there will be temples in the Celestial Kingdom?

I'm not sure we can conclude that there wasn't a temple in the Garden of Eden (or any other time before Moses) just because it isn't specifically mentioned in the surviving texts.

Here's an interesting article: https://rsc.byu.edu/archived/sperry-symposium-classics-old-testament/melchizedek-seeking-after-zion-enoch

“President Brigham Young believed that there were temples in the city of Enoch. He said, “I will not say but what Enoch had Temples and officiated therein, but we have no account of it.” Similarly, concerning the possibility of temples in the city of Enoch, Elder Franklin D. Richards said, “I expect that in the city of Enoch there are temples; and when Enoch and his people come back, they will come back with their city, their temples, blessings and powers.””

“Josephus, a Jewish historian who lived in the first century after Christ, knew of a tradition that Melchizedek, not Solomon, was the first person to build a temple of the Lord in Palestine. “Its [Salem’s] original founder was a Canaanite chief, called in the native tongue ‘Righteous King’ [or Melchizedek]; for such indeed he was. In virtue thereof he was the first to officiate as priest of God and, being the first to build the temple, gave the city, previously called Solyma [or Salem], the name of Jerusalem.””

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2016 at 10:37 AM, Edspringer said:

God revealed His truths in deserts and upon high mountains.

 

Right. Mountains in particular were metaphors for temples in the scriptures (see in particular Isaiah 2:2).

But, don't forget the most important temples of all (1 Cor 6:19 and Jn 2:21)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now