The Millennium

[Rob Osborn]

1 minute ago, The Folk Prophet said:

Prove it.

Broken record eh? Good day mate, have a good one. Love ya brother.

[The Folk Prophet]

9 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Broken record eh? Good day mate, have a good one. Love ya brother.

You have a good one too. When you find some real proof, you let me know.

Edited July 11, 2017 by The Folk Prophet

[SilentOne]

6 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Are you sure?  If that is so, what is a cockatrice?

5 hours ago, zil said:

Pretty sure.  I would have thought by now that you had learned how to use google as a dictionary:

https://www.google.com/search?num=20&newwindow=1&site=&source=hp&q=define+cockatrice&oq=define+cockatrice&gs_l=hp.3..0l3j0i22i30k1.877.3882.0.4243.18.15.0.0.0.0.358.2986.0j2j7j3.12.0....0...1.1.64.hp..6.12.2981.0..35i39k1j0i20k1j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i22i10i30k1.ZU_H-k1BR5o

5 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I did.  And I'm having a hard time believing that a two-legged dragon with a cock's head will be living in the Millenium.

But fear not, dear ink muse.  The time is upon us when we shall all envy Lord @MormonGator and @LadyGator.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/cockatrice/

Quote

the mediaeval name (a corruption of "crocodile")

Now I wonder what "mediaeval" is supposed to mean.

A different answer:

Quote

In 1611, when the KJV was produced, the translators used "cockatrice" in part of their translations from the Hebrew.  A cockatrice is a mythical creature that does not exist.  It was supposedly a serpent produced from a cock's egg.  So why would they use that word?  They did so because they didn't know what the original Hebrew word meant, and not having a sufficient knowledge of biology they used an English word that wasn't appropriate. Today we have a much better understanding of the Hebrew, as well as biology.  This is why modern translations use the words "viper" and "adder" and "poisonous snake" to translate the original Hebrew word, "tsepha."

Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry

Quote

Some venomous snake (Isa. 11:8).

Bible Dictionary

 

[zil]

3 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

A different answer:

Quit ruining our fun with research!

[SilentOne]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

Quit ruining our fun with research!

Okay. Well, I guess I'm going to go with there will be basilisks living on earth during the Millennium.

[zil]

20 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

Okay. Well, I guess I'm going to go with there will be basilisks living on earth during the Millennium.

Here you go.  Just print him, cut him out, and stick him with your temple recommend and I'm sure he'll make it to the millennium.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, SilentOne said:

A different answer:

13 hours ago, zil said:

Quit ruining our fun with research!

Yeah.  I mean, if we wanted facts we would have just looked it up.  Now we have to come back off of that tenuous limb.  Ok. Back to hum-drum.

[Sunday21]

@Carborendum Can we add Japanese Beatles to the list of critters that we don't want around during the millennium? I pluck these nasty things off my roses every morning and evening. Also fly's, also Canadian Geese!!! I hate Canadian Geese with a passion. They are protected here. What else....

[Traveler]

19 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

I said prove it.

@Rob Osborn When it comes to spiritual things - I am not 100% convinced that there is that much difference in demanding proof or demanding a sign.

In the field of things empirical; a proof has purpose and is beneficial - but it seems to me that seeking empirical proof of things spiritual is in essence seeking for a sign.

 

The Traveler

[The Folk Prophet]

31 minutes ago, Traveler said:

@Rob Osborn When it comes to spiritual things - I am not 100% convinced that there is that much difference in demanding proof or demanding a sign.

In the field of things empirical; a proof has purpose and is beneficial - but it seems to me that seeking empirical proof of things spiritual is in essence seeking for a sign.

 

The Traveler

Hahahahahahah.

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, Traveler said:

@Rob Osborn When it comes to spiritual things - I am not 100% convinced that there is that much difference in demanding proof or demanding a sign.

In the field of things empirical; a proof has purpose and is beneficial - but it seems to me that seeking empirical proof of things spiritual is in essence seeking for a sign.

 

The Traveler

6 ¶Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

[The Folk Prophet]

2 hours ago, Rob Osborn said:

6 ¶Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

It's actually kind of funny, because I don't actually know for sure that you're wrong on the millennium idea. I just want you to back it up with something other than flimsy scriptural references that don't necessarily say what you are implying they are saying.

The scriptures you quote say...well, here: I'll re post them:

29 For in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment, and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth.
30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come. (D&C 43:29-30)

So it says the redeemed shall reign on the earth with Christ...which we know to be true. But it doesn't necessarily mean ALL of His people. It could. But it isn't self evident proof from the scripture itself. It seems likely that many who will ultimately be saved won't live on the earth in the millennium, because one of the great works of the millennium is the saving work for the dead, who can't be saved until that work is done.

Moreover, vs 31 reads:

31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.

So...in context:

29 For in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment, and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth.

30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come.

31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.

Now...is the end of vs. 29 the end of a thought and then verse 30 begins a new thought that speaks of the end of the earth? So are those who are redeemed and to reign with Christ on the earth doing so in the millennium or after the end? We know that the righteous will inherit the earth, that it will become a sea of glass, etc., So is that what vs 29 means or does it mean in the millennium? And either way...does it mean ALL of them?

I don't know for sure. But you just saying it doesn't mean much...particularly when you have a history of declaring the church "wrong" in matters where your personal interpretation has come to a different conclusion. So I want you to support your interpretation of this scripture with something more than just your interpretation...as if your interpretation defines "holy" and anyone who disagrees with it must be dogs and swine.

We know that righteous people will rule on the earth during the millennium. We know that many will come forth in the morning of the first resurrection at that time too. I can't say it's a forgone conclusion that everyone who does will then dwell on the earth for the duration of the millennium. Some might. "Everyone who gets saved" seems a stretch.

Even Christ himself, as taught by Joseph, will not spend the entire 1000 years literally on the earth. (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith p258 "“That Jesus will be a resident on the earth a thousand [years] with the Saints is not the case, but will reign over the Saints and come down and instruct"). So an interpretation that all "saved" individuals will dwell on the earth during that time is suspect to me. So I want "proof" by way of something other than just your say-so if that is the reality of how it will be. Beyond that, Joseph Smith taught that immortal beings would visit the earth during the millennium. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p268). Who are these visiting beings? The unsaved? How can any but the unsaved visit the earth if all the saved are dwelling on the earth? You can't visit somewhere you dwell.

The fact that I want you to support an idea with some backing doctrinal statements and the like is sign-seeking is so laughable it's not worth debating. The fact that you consider anyone who disagrees with your peculiar view of any given idea swines and dogs and that your ideas are de facto holy ones speaks more of you than it does of those, supposedly your fellow brethren in Christ, you accuse of being swines and pigs, particularly when they aren't even claiming that you are certainly wrong or not on a given matter.

[Rob Osborn]

5 hours ago, The Folk Prophet said:

It's actually kind of funny, because I don't actually know for sure that you're wrong on the millennium idea. I just want you to back it up with something other than flimsy scriptural references that don't necessarily say what you are implying they are saying.

The scriptures you quote say...well, here: I'll re post them:

29 For in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment, and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth.
30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come. (D&C 43:29-30)

So it says the redeemed shall reign on the earth with Christ...which we know to be true. But it doesn't necessarily mean ALL of His people. It could. But it isn't self evident proof from the scripture itself. It seems likely that many who will ultimately be saved won't live on the earth in the millennium, because one of the great works of the millennium is the saving work for the dead, who can't be saved until that work is done.

Moreover, vs 31 reads:

31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.

So...in context:

29 For in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment, and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth.

30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come.

31 For Satan shall be bound, and when he is loosed again he shall only reign for a little season, and then cometh the end of the earth.

Now...is the end of vs. 29 the end of a thought and then verse 30 begins a new thought that speaks of the end of the earth? So are those who are redeemed and to reign with Christ on the earth doing so in the millennium or after the end? We know that the righteous will inherit the earth, that it will become a sea of glass, etc., So is that what vs 29 means or does it mean in the millennium? And either way...does it mean ALL of them?

I don't know for sure. But you just saying it doesn't mean much...particularly when you have a history of declaring the church "wrong" in matters where your personal interpretation has come to a different conclusion. So I want you to support your interpretation of this scripture with something more than just your interpretation...as if your interpretation defines "holy" and anyone who disagrees with it must be dogs and swine.

We know that righteous people will rule on the earth during the millennium. We know that many will come forth in the morning of the first resurrection at that time too. I can't say it's a forgone conclusion that everyone who does will then dwell on the earth for the duration of the millennium. Some might. "Everyone who gets saved" seems a stretch.

Even Christ himself, as taught by Joseph, will not spend the entire 1000 years literally on the earth. (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith p258 "“That Jesus will be a resident on the earth a thousand [years] with the Saints is not the case, but will reign over the Saints and come down and instruct"). So an interpretation that all "saved" individuals will dwell on the earth during that time is suspect to me. So I want "proof" by way of something other than just your say-so if that is the reality of how it will be. Beyond that, Joseph Smith taught that immortal beings would visit the earth during the millennium. (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith p268). Who are these visiting beings? The unsaved? How can any but the unsaved visit the earth if all the saved are dwelling on the earth? You can't visit somewhere you dwell.

The fact that I want you to support an idea with some backing doctrinal statements and the like is sign-seeking is so laughable it's not worth debating. The fact that you consider anyone who disagrees with your peculiar view of any given idea swines and dogs and that your ideas are de facto holy ones speaks more of you than it does of those, supposedly your fellow brethren in Christ, you accuse of being swines and pigs, particularly when they aren't even claiming that you are certainly wrong or not on a given matter.

Thats quite the soapbox. Frankly, I am done dialoguing with you. Have a nice day.

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, Rob Osborn said:

Thats quite the soapbox. Frankly, I am done dialoguing with you. Have a nice day.

Seriously? TFP takes the time to compose a thorough, thoughtful, reasonable, and non-insulting response, and you just blow him off?

If you wonder why people here tend not to engage you very often, look no further than your above blow-off.

[Rob Osborn]

8 minutes ago, Vort said:

Seriously? TFP takes the time to compose a thorough, thoughtful, reasonable, and non-insulting response, and you just blow him off?

If you wonder why people here tend not to engage you very often, look no further than your above blow-off.

Noninsulting? Yeah right!

[Vort]

9 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

Can we add Japanese Beatles to the list of critters that we don't want around during the millennium?

You mean these guys?

I'm no huge Beatles fan or anything, but I think you're being just a bit harsh. They don't dislike you. Look, they want to hold your hand.

 

[SpiritDragon]

11 hours ago, Sunday21 said:

@Carborendum Can we add Japanese Beatles to the list of critters that we don't want around during the millennium? I pluck these nasty things off my roses every morning and evening. Also fly's, also Canadian Geese!!! I hate Canadian Geese with a passion. They are protected here. What else....

What's wrong with geese that have decided to get Canadian citizenship? 

I'm sure you're referring to the noble creature known as the Canada goose, which are not actually Canadian.

[mordorbund]

On 7/11/2017 at 5:30 PM, Rob Osborn said:

29 For in mine own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment, and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth.
30 For the great Millennium, of which I have spoken by the mouth of my servants, shall come. (D&C 43:29-30)

Do you think those that reign are doing so from earth? We consider Christ the head of our Church and He's been governing remotely for a few centuries now.

[mordorbund]

On 7/11/2017 at 1:41 PM, Mike said:

I hadn't thought much about this recently, and so you caused me to think about it, and I'm pondering what I read on lds.org https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-45-the-millennium?lang=eng  The following caught my attention:

I realize I haven't complied with your request for scriptural references. However, I'm interested to know whether you find the above interesting. I do. 

I do find it interesting. I've obviously taken this thread in the direction of "immortal and resurrected beings" part of that quote. Is there another part that you find interesting? and why?

[Rob Osborn]

1 hour ago, mordorbund said:

Do you think those that reign are doing so from earth? We consider Christ the head of our Church and He's been governing remotely for a few centuries now.

Well, it does say they will reign with him on the earth.

[mordorbund]

1 minute ago, Rob Osborn said:

Well, it does say they will reign with him on the earth.

Do you think Jesus will live on the earth for that 1000 years as well then?

[Rob Osborn]

6 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Do you think Jesus will live on the earth for that 1000 years as well then?

Absolutely, thats what the scriptures say

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Rev. 20:4-6)

 

[Rob Osborn]

18 minutes ago, mordorbund said:

Do you think Jesus will live on the earth for that 1000 years as well then?

11 For I will reveal myself from heaven with power and great glory, with all the hosts thereof, and dwell in righteousness with men on earth a thousand years, and the wicked shall not stand. (D&C 29:11)

[Mike]

2 hours ago, mordorbund said:

I do find it interesting. I've obviously taken this thread in the direction of "immortal and resurrected beings" part of that quote. Is there another part that you find interesting? and why?

Yes, this part resonates in my own heart and mind. 

Quote

Peace on the Earth

During the Millennium, there will be no war. People will live in peace and harmony together. Things that have been used for war will be turned to useful purposes. “They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more” (Isaiah 2:4; see also Isaiah 11:6–7; D&C 101:26).

It's tempting to elaborate and even to speculate, but I don't want to go that far. I'm mindful of the counsel included at the beginning of this "page" on lds.org from "Gospel Principles" (shown below in parentheses) which strikes me as wise counsel--the take away for me is that these things are something for me to ponder more than for me to presume to elucidate. In any event it's meaningful to me personally.

(For teachers: The subject of the Millennium sometimes leads people to speculate about ideas that are not found in the scriptures or the teachings of latter-day prophets. As you guide this lesson, be careful to avoid such speculation.)