Am I the only aware member with alarm bells going off in his head?

[Alex]

Hi,

Brand spanking uber newb here. Had to join this forum because I seem to be the only one around who is watching what has developed in the middle east these last two weeks and is err, a tad concerned.

Look, the 4 standard works don't go into a lot of detail about the final a/c . You know, the one raised up specifically to oppose the state of Israel and bring about misery on the face of the earth. The 4 standard works are timeless in that their mentions of an Anti-Christ relate to those opposing Christ in any and all eras. That multiple fulfillment quality is wonderful but err, umm, it's the final Anti-Christ that I keep an eye out for, as many of you do too, in some way.

So umm, the last fortnight or so has seen this meteoric rise of a prince in the house of Saud who is essentially working on erasing Iran's presence from the entire Middle East. Now, yes, Iran's islamic revolution back in 77 has brought misery to the region and many of the presidents of Iran have vowed to not only wipe the state of Israel from the map but to wipe Jews from the face of the earth. Everything about modern islamic Iran has evil to it- it has no redeeming qualities to its existence and normally, I would back ANYTHING that was opposed to Iran.

But umm, both Israel and now the USA is coming out and praising this prince as a miracle worker who will end extremism in the Middle East.

Yeah, letting women drive in Saudi is progress --as this prince has allowed-- but it isn't really changing hearts. It's more of a cover to win over minds. I'm thinking this prince ticks some boxes for being the greatest deceiver the world has ever seen (as his reforms to their law are minimal) and if you think about it, he possess the oil wealth to achieve incredible things.

Let's just say that Israel and the USA backs this prince's purge of Iranian influence in Lebanon etc and the USA even enters into battle with him and he goes on to feed and clothe the sick. The UN will absolutely worship him for redistributing wealth and even back him further. For he is the one controlling/protecting Islam's holy sites and he is the hand that has removed the scourge or iran's evil by smothering isis and opposing Iranian funded Hezbollah.

Now, I put it to you all that if he achieves just a few of these things, he will convince entire nations to back his purges. And these purges will not just take place outside of Saudi. Saudi Arabia has Wahhabi extremists --who were responsible for 9/11-- but in reality, a true Anti-Christ would sacrifice any and all pawns to achieve the biggest objective.

I'm not saying we can oppose what is unfurling here but saints need to consider the never before seen power play that is happening right in front of our eyes. Especially you LDS politicians elected to positions of political power- if you come out and back a war at the behest of this prince, you may well be sowing the seeds for something far, far worse.

You know, many praised von Stauffenberg for his plot to kill Hitler but all that Satuffenberg was doing was attempting to replace a drugged up fool (Hitler) with a competent general who could win the war. He appeared to be doing good, but if he succeeded, it would have been far worse for the entire globe.

Just keep this in mind brethren/sisters and yep, if you know an LDS politician then please, have them consider that this prince is not all he appears to be.

 

Your considered thoughts are appreciated.

 

 

 

[anatess2]

10 hours ago, Alex said:

Hi,

Brand spanking uber newb here. Had to join this forum because I seem to be the only one around who is watching what has developed in the middle east these last two weeks and is err, a tad concerned.

Look, the 4 standard works don't go into a lot of detail about the final a/c

If the British Kingdom was not it, and the Civil War wasn't it, and the governor of Missouri wasn't it, and Mao wasn't it, nor Stalin, nor Hitler, and the Kims wasn't it... I doubt this branch of the royal Saudis is gonna be it.  Many said Obama was it, and now they say Trump is it.  But then you never know.  There is only one thing for certain - we wouldn't know the day nor the hour.

 

10 hours ago, Alex said:

But umm, both Israel and now the USA is coming out and praising this prince as a miracle worker who will end extremism in the Middle East.

That's an exaggeration and neither Netanyahu's nor Trump's administrations said this.  Trump, of course, does his normal hyperbolic flourish when he speaks.  Bigly.

The history of the planet has shown that ending extremism in the Middle East and elsewhere is a pipe dream.  Foreign policy does not deal with absolutes.  Not even the US.  They only deal with the current players on the chess board.  It used to be that the UN/US/other-main-players would choose their chess pieces and actively work on propping up/getting rid of governments.  E.g. what the US did in Lebanon and Iraq.  They've been doing this for ages.

 

10 hours ago, Alex said:

Yeah, letting women drive in Saudi is progress --as this prince has allowed-- but it isn't really changing hearts. It's more of a cover to win over minds. I'm thinking this prince ticks some boxes for being the greatest deceiver the world has ever seen (as his reforms to their law are minimal) and if you think about it, he possess the oil wealth to achieve incredible things.

Let's just say that Israel and the USA backs this prince's purge of Iranian influence in Lebanon etc and the USA even enters into battle with him and he goes on to feed and clothe the sick. The UN will absolutely worship him for redistributing wealth and even back him further. For he is the one controlling/protecting Islam's holy sites and he is the hand that has removed the scourge or iran's evil by smothering isis and opposing Iranian funded Hezbollah.

Now, I put it to you all that if he achieves just a few of these things, he will convince entire nations to back his purges. And these purges will not just take place outside of Saudi. Saudi Arabia has Wahhabi extremists --who were responsible for 9/11-- but in reality, a true Anti-Christ would sacrifice any and all pawns to achieve the biggest objective.

This is a very simplistic view of the complex things that are happening in SA and what the change in leadership's impacts are.  This is not about women driving.  This is about crippling SA's influence in the globalist agenda including the swamp in the US and EU governments.  You think Bush voted for HIllary because he wants to preserve the Republican "image"? 

In any case, SA is a sovereign country.  They are free to run their own country the way they see fit.  The rest of the world chooses how to react to it.  It used to be that the US was very heavy handed in changing governments.  I am happy they're now starting to leave other countries well enough alone.  Rex Tillerson's response to Marco Rubio about SA and the Philippines during his senate hearings was awesome. 

 

10 hours ago, Alex said:

I'm not saying we can oppose what is unfurling here but saints need to consider the never before seen power play that is happening right in front of our eyes.

Never before seen?   I guess World War II was just too long ago?  My grandfather died in that war so it's not that long ago for me.   I just met a Bataan Death March survivor a few days ago over Veterans Day.  How about the regime changes that led to the Arab Spring.  Is that recent enough?  Well, ISIS is pretty current.  And my country, the Philippines, is currently waging a war against them in our own country as they took over an entire city.  So, yeah, to Filipinos, the change in SA is a good thing.  One crisis at a time is the ticket.  If this prince becomes the new Hitler, we'll deal with him then.

 

10 hours ago, Alex said:

Especially you LDS politicians elected to positions of political power- if you come out and back a war at the behest of this prince, you may well be sowing the seeds for something far, far worse.

Sorry, a lot of your prominent LDS politicians have been pro-war even when this Saudi prince was still in diapers.   And they're on both sides of the political aisle, unfortunately.

 

10 hours ago, Alex said:

You know, many praised von Stauffenberg for his plot to kill Hitler but all that Satuffenberg was doing was attempting to replace a drugged up fool (Hitler) with a competent general who could win the war. He appeared to be doing good, but if he succeeded, it would have been far worse for the entire globe.

Just keep this in mind brethren/sisters and yep, if you know an LDS politician then please, have them consider that this prince is not all he appears to be.

 

Your considered thoughts are appreciated.

 

Another day, another dictator.  Situation normal.  

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by anatess2

[zil]

Welcome, @Alex!  We like newbs.  Hope you stick around long enough not to be one anymore.  Wait, I think there's a logic error in there somewhere...

10 hours ago, Alex said:

the final a/c

The final air conditioner?  (Seriously, what is "a/c"?)  Two seconds later: Oh, "anti-Christ".  OK.

10 hours ago, Alex said:

it's the final Anti-Christ that I keep an eye out for, as many of you do too, in some way.

Hmm.  Now I'm curious.  Anyone else out there keeping an eye out for this (consciously)?  Can't say I've really thought about it in the last 2 decades.

Sorry, nothing useful to add.  Today's forecast: Mostly happy with occasional snarks gusting from the south.

[mirkwood]

I think the Anti-Christ will rise out of radical Islam.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, zil said:

Hmm.  Now I'm curious.  Anyone else out there keeping an eye out for this (consciously)?  Can't say I've really thought about it in the last 2 decades.

 

Do the final Anti-Christ, beast of the apocalypse, false prophet, and all that weird stuff in Revelation actually refer to specific people who have not lived yet?  While I admit they could, I am not entirely convinced they do.

No, I can't honestly say I spend much (or, well, any) time wondering about who the Anti-Christ, Beast or False Prophet are.

Maybe it is because I am here in Texas where people say really crazy stuff like "Obama is the Anti-Christ" on a regular basis, with a straight face.

[anatess2]

10 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Maybe it is because I am here in Texas where people say really crazy stuff like "Obama is the Anti-Christ" on a regular basis, with a straight face.

Florida too!  Except here, it was Bush who was the anti-Christ, then Obama was the anti-Christ, and now they're saying Trump is the anti-Christ.  It's actually pretty fun to listen to after-midnight AM radio over here.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DoctorLemon said:

Maybe it is because I am here in Texas where people say really crazy stuff like "Obama is the Anti-Christ" on a regular basis, with a straight face.

Reductio ad Anti-Christium?

When people said this in '08, @LeSellers said,"Well, I'm not going to put up much of an argument."

[Guest]

Just now, Carborendum said:

Reductio ad Anti-Christium?

When people said this in '08, @LeSellers said,"Well, I'm not going to put up much of an argument."

Careful Carb!

I almost said such antics are commonplace on LDS freedom forum! 

On a side note, we haven't seen you around much lately!  Good to have you back!

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, DoctorLemon said:

Careful Carb!

I almost said such antics are commonplace on LDS freedom forum! 

On a side note, we haven't seen you around much lately!  Good to have you back!

Yep.  I've been losing a lot of sleep lately.  I've got this one slow day.  I figured I'd drop by for a while. Tomorrow, it's back to the grindstone.

I spent some time around the LFF.  But people would go completely unchecked on their application of doctrines and prophecies of the last days.  MY GIVE UP!!

Edited November 13, 2017 by Guest

[Alex]

3 hours ago, zil said:

Welcome, @Alex!  We like newbs.  Hope you stick around long enough not to be one anymore.  Wait, I think there's a logic error in there somewhere...

The final air conditioner?  (Seriously, what is "a/c"?)  Two seconds later: Oh, "anti-Christ".  OK.

Hmm.  Now I'm curious.  Anyone else out there keeping an eye out for this (consciously)?  Can't say I've really thought about it in the last 2 decades.

Sorry, nothing useful to add.  Today's forecast: Mostly happy with occasional snarks gusting from the south.

 

Oh well, it looks like it's only me who pays attention to what is happening. I also watch for the signs that are promised- I do not seek for more signs but I do watch for that which is specifically mentioned:

Luke 21:25.

²⁵ And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring

Hmm, specific scriptures in Revelations primarily deal with the FINAL Anti-Christ's marking- '...a mark', '...his mark', '...the mark' and '...mark of his name' . I think there are eight of these marking scriptures in Rev alone so it's obviously important to be aware of it, or it wouldn't have been repeated so often.

Anyway, if anyone has a talk from any of the brethren since the restoration that adds to this topic then let me know here.

Alex

 

 

 

[NeuroTypical]

52 minutes ago, Alex said:

Oh well, it looks like it's only me who pays attention to what is happening.

We also would have accepted the following:
- Ostriches with our heads in the sand.
- Lulled into a false sense of security by those who would enslave us.
- Can't be bothered to take our blinders off.
- [anything with 'deluded sheeple' in it]

I remember when it was the commies.  After the soviet union fell, my buddy who sounded like you told me "look for them in the UN".  I remember when the Japanese had their turn, as well as militant environmentalism.  (Actually, that last one is still in many spotlights.)

But yeah, every obvious enemy has someone zealously against it.  And some of those zealots are like piano players that only play one or two notes.   And a common hallmark of those folks, is stuff gets insulting pretty fast if they don't find whatever audience to be fertile ground to grow their seeds of choice.

Edited November 13, 2017 by NeuroTypical

[zil]

@Alex, I hope you didn't take my post as critical of yours - I didn't mean it that way at all.  It's just fine if you want to consider current events in this way (as long as you don't go off the deep end or something).  Also, just because some don't agree with your interpretation, or don't actively make an effort to determine whether person X might be the "final" anti-Christ from scripture doesn't mean they aren't living in such a way as to recognize the signs when they happen.  IMO, those who are living the gospel as best they can, who have the Spirit with them will not be deceived, and will recognize signs when they come.  It's those who are "coasting" who might ought to worry.

As for prophets talking about these things, are you aware of the citation index BYU keeps: http://scriptures.byu.edu/

You can drill down to a scripture and see every conference talk that has referenced it, and many other documents (like Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, and things like that).  This might help you find references.

PS: Please forgive me for typing this message.  I promise to hand-write the next one.

[Guest]

Perhaps the false prophet, antichrist, beast of the apocalypse, and abomination of the desolation are not individual people but allegory for wickedness?  

Pornography comes to mind as being a good candidate, as it is, in some ways, like a false gospel, and has indeed shown itself to have the power to deceive all but the very elect and sometimes hopelessly enslave otherwise righteous men.

Edited November 13, 2017 by DoctorLemon

[JohnsonJones]

I've been following this guy, I've heard several points of view.  The west right now is praising him to high heaven.  On the otherhand, it depends on WHAT group you are part of that determines how you feel about this guy.  The pro-opinion is that he is getting new rights to areas where these rights were never had before.  He is supposedly clearing up corruption by actually arresting some of the untouchables in Saudi and other actions.

However, the opposing view is skeptical because these untouchables just happen to be those that oppose his  interests.  By getting rid of them, he furthers his own goals and secures his own political positioning.  In that, they are viewing it more as a purge of his enemies under the guise of something else. 

How does this relate to the US.  The oldest ally in the Middle East to the US is NOT Israel, I believe it is actually Saudi Arabia.  Saudi Arabia is the US's oldest and closest ally in the area (yes, that means the US in theory is actually closer to Saudi Arabia than Israel or any other nation over there).  This means the US also is invested in Saudi Arabian interest which has had a large effect (including events in Iran which unfolded in the 70s and 80s most likely) on other nations approach towards the US.

There is a cold war that's been going on for a LOOONG time in the Middle East and it's not between Israel and the others.  It is far more dangerous to the area, and at times far closer to being an active hot war of obliteration and genocide than anything approaching what has occurred to Israel.  This is between Saudi Arabia and iran.  As Saudi Arabia's ally, the US is seen as the opposing side to Iran along with Saudi and it's alliance.

For those of you that remember, think of the cold war between the US and the USSR that occurred last century.  It is very similar to that, except between Saudi and Iran.  The actions of Saudi Arabia towards Iran is basically just a continuation of that cold war.

However, about this rising prince, I don't know what the future holds.  It could be he turns out to be a very good thing for the Saudis, a very good thing for the US, and a very good thing for th region.  He could also turn out to be very bad.  I don't know.  Could he be the A/C...I don't know.  Probabilities point that he probably isn't (as there have been a huge number of possibles in the past as well, so the chances of it being him out of all of them...???), but I don't know...he could very well be.  Things are getting bad in the world today, and if I were a betting man I'd bet an A/C would be more likely to sprout out of Islam (as the entire religion is sort of A/C as they believe in the Lord as a prophet, but NOT as God or the Messiah...which I would identify as being A/C), but I do not know. 

I hope that the second coming is right around the corner as things are getting pretty evil in our world today, but it may be that things will get far worse and I'll be long dead before the second coming arrives.  We know that a temple is going to need to be built in Jerusalem and two prophets teach there for almost three years...but as far as I know, the temple hasn't even started to be built yet, so there is still time probably.  (though no man knows the day, we were given signs of the time as a forewarning).

[Alex]

Hmm, a couple of points.

1)  Carter wisely froze Iran's assets following the islamic revolution. For those who didn't know, the then Shah of Iran (1979) had paid the USA around a billion to buy advanced weaponry for Iran.

Yeah,  many would say the Shah was a greedy dictator but in context, the islamic revolution was/is far worse and that was why Reagan and Bush Snr backed Saddam- because Saddam opposed the Iranian Revolution. 

Then last year all of a sudden Obama turns around and unfreezes that money, giving it back to Islamist Iran. For some unknown reason Obama just knew better than any President since Carter as he opted to give extremist Iran all that money plus interest. Trump is rightly annoyed over the payment as were many who know that Iran funds Hezbollah (Hezbollah actually admitted it is funded by Iran).

Trump is backing the new prince in his purge of any Iranian influence in the Middle East and of course, Israel is so pleased that this new prince secretly visited Israel in October.

Things are moving here far more quickly than I've ever seen before- the war drums are beating over Lebanon, again, now that the Saudi prince has forced the Lebanese president to resign just 2 days ago. 

2) The dominoes are lining up here for another true 'Gulf War' (that is a war between the oil states on the Persian Gulf) and the Iranian missile fired at Saudi from Yemen a few days ago has to be responded to by Saudi- If I was a gambler I'd put money on Saudi invading Yemen in December to put down the Houthi rebellion.

Obviously I can't see the future but this prince's standing within Islam and the West is about to skyrocket- If he kills the radicals in Yemen the globe will applaud. If he feeds the families of the radicals in Yemen (much poverty there) the globe will applaud and even praise him.

Yep, I sense something sinister unfurling very quickly here and the fact that one of you (a brother from the Philippines) welcomes the rise of this prince if it defeats Iranian backed terror says that there are probably saints in other nations where terrorism is a problem, who will also welcome his hand.

Just be careful with what you hope for.

 

[JohnsonJones]

6 hours ago, Alex said:

Hmm, a couple of points.

1)  Carter wisely froze Iran's assets following the islamic revolution. For those who didn't know, the then Shah of Iran (1979) had paid the USA around a billion to buy advanced weaponry for Iran.

Yeah,  many would say the Shah was a greedy dictator but in context, the islamic revolution was/is far worse and that was why Reagan and Bush Snr backed Saddam- because Saddam opposed the Iranian Revolution. 

Then last year all of a sudden Obama turns around and unfreezes that money, giving it back to Islamist Iran. For some unknown reason Obama just knew better than any President since Carter as he opted to give extremist Iran all that money plus interest. Trump is rightly annoyed over the payment as were many who know that Iran funds Hezbollah (Hezbollah actually admitted it is funded by Iran).

Trump is backing the new prince in his purge of any Iranian influence in the Middle East and of course, Israel is so pleased that this new prince secretly visited Israel in October.

Things are moving here far more quickly than I've ever seen before- the war drums are beating over Lebanon, again, now that the Saudi prince has forced the Lebanese president to resign just 2 days ago. 

2) The dominoes are lining up here for another true 'Gulf War' (that is a war between the oil states on the Persian Gulf) and the Iranian missile fired at Saudi from Yemen a few days ago has to be responded to by Saudi- If I was a gambler I'd put money on Saudi invading Yemen in December to put down the Houthi rebellion.

Obviously I can't see the future but this prince's standing within Islam and the West is about to skyrocket- If he kills the radicals in Yemen the globe will applaud. If he feeds the families of the radicals in Yemen (much poverty there) the globe will applaud and even praise him.

Yep, I sense something sinister unfurling very quickly here and the fact that one of you (a brother from the Philippines) welcomes the rise of this prince if it defeats Iranian backed terror says that there are probably saints in other nations where terrorism is a problem, who will also welcome his hand.

Just be careful with what you hope for.

 

I believe @anatess2 is actually a LDS Sister.

If the Prince turns out to be someone who can deter the extremists and bring a few western values to Saudi Arabia, there would be many who would be happy with that outcome. 

I'm still in the wait and see, as I could very well see this as him trying to solidify a political position while purging his enemies.  I do not know, I'll wait and see.  One thing about many of the Muslim rulers over there, due to their laws, their nations are FAR more moral than the US in some ways.  Of course, the punishments are also extreme.  I've had some rather remarkable things from citizens over there in regards to their being honest about money and other things (stealing is HARSHLY dealt with, for example).  That could be due to fear of punishment though.  In that light, I can see the advantages of Western laws in my life, and appreciate them, but unsure that having them be brought to the Middle East would be beneficial in regards to their own morality.  It could be just as destructive as it is helpful, not just in morality, but as their morality falls, so could their hesitation and restraint in other areas.  Western culture doesn't seem to bring order as we've seen in various nations that have had it imposed on them to a degree (for example, Iraq, the US's attempts in Syria, etc...etc..etc).  Jordan and Israel are probably the two examples of it working to a degree.  I'm not seeing western society as a great boon to many of the other nations there.  It could actually be very destructive.

However, it is always tense between Saudi Arabia and Iran.  In my opinion, one of the reasons it's been more tense in the recent years is that if Iran gets nuclear weapons, there is almost no doubt in my mind that they will use them eventually, NOT on Israel, but Saudi Arabia.  Some people in the US would cheer such a result as well, but I would not.  That would be a disaster on a scale many probably don't see.  There are probably around three to four States out there that are stabilizing the region somewhat right now, if you take out Saudi, the entire region could go into chaos like a powder keg.  That means a LOT of pent up stuff towards Israel probably would be released, and with US/Russia relations as it has been in the MIddle East, as well as the resources we still squabble over, could even be a powder keg that lights the world.

If I'm unlucky I'd be over there on a trip of mine in the middle of it.  Not a fun way for me to go.

I could see a hot war lighting up.  There was always concern on the Arabian Peninsula about aggressive Iranian actions.  What's worse, is in many ways it is far more fueled by religious fervor on some parts or the other (Iran and Saudi ascribe to very different sects of Islam, and they pretty much hate each other and consider the other like apostates), which could make a LOT of hate fueled religious extremism on both sides.  Could that bring about the Apocalypse...possibly.  I don't know.  If I recall, it also states the Bear would be involved, which probably means Russia, and if Russia gets involved with a Hot War there, you can bet the US probably would get involved.

However, for the present (at least the next 6 months to a year) I expect more cold war actions.  That could mean a proxy war in Yemen or other places between the Sauds and Iran.

So, what can we do?  You asked about talks regarding the End of time and the Last days from General Authorities. There have been many, and I am not going to list them all.  I will list a few from the past few decades.  Most of these do not talk directly about the conflicts, but focus more on what WE can do and how we should act in accordance to the times and evils around us.

The Second Coming of Christ Legrand Richards

The coming tests and trials and glory

Be of Good Cheer Neal A Maxwell

Behold the enemy is combined Neal A. Maxwell

The Key to Spiritual Protection Boyd K. Packer

The Time shall Come L Whitney Clayton

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by JohnsonJones

[Guest]

14 hours ago, NeuroTypical said:

We also would have accepted the following:
- Ostriches with our heads in the sand.
- Lulled into a false sense of security by those who would enslave us.
- Can't be bothered to take our blinders off.
- [anything with 'deluded sheeple' in it]

I don't think you mentioned "All's Well In Zion."

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Alex said:

Oh well, it looks like it's only me who pays attention to what is happening. I also watch for the signs that are promised- I do not seek for more signs but I do watch for that which is specifically mentioned:

Alex,

Whatever signs there are, I'd ask the following question:  What are you going to do about it?

I follow the counsel of the prophets to be prepared.  I'm temporally prepared, I strive to be spiritually prepared.  But I also prepare to keep living life.  What else would you expect people to do?  Have we been listening to the news?  Of course we have.  Do we recognize that this could be a big sign?  Or course we do.  But what are we supposed to change because of it?

Live.  Live a life that shows that you are a follower of Christ.  Prepare every needful thing, and live.

All the signs that we see are signs that have been around for a long time.  They've happened so many times.  How do we know if "this is it"?  We don't. So, we simply remain vigilant.  We recognize that this could be it.  But in case it isn't, we keep living life.

In the end, it doesn't matter if we're going to get hit by a bus tomorrow or if Christ comes again next week.  We need to be prepared no matter what.  Are you prepared?

Edited November 14, 2017 by Guest

[JoCa]

On 11/13/2017 at 12:24 AM, Alex said:

Your considered thoughts are appreciated.

I don't know about the rest of your post, but I follow the economy pretty closely and if you aren't getting prepared to batten down the hatches right now you're a fool.  The signs are aligning we will be in a recession pretty soon (my guess is by end of 2018).  Screaming stock market, screaming real estate market, low unemployment, low inflation, low rates . .. these things don't last very long at all. We are in 3rd longest expansion ever in US history (in 5 months it will be the 2nd longest). 

If you aren't squirling nuts for the winter right now . . . .you are nuts (pun intended).

[anatess2]

18 hours ago, Carborendum said:

Reductio ad Anti-Christium?

When people said this in '08, @LeSellers said,"Well, I'm not going to put up much of an argument."

Hey!  How's that guy?  Did you lock him in a closet?  We need him back here!  I'd like to see him take on a few of our new hobby horse riders and see what shakes out!  I would love to introduce him to @Grunt!  I think they're gonna like each other.

[anatess2]

14 hours ago, Alex said:

Hmm, a couple of points.

1)  Carter wisely froze Iran's assets following the islamic revolution. For those who didn't know, the then Shah of Iran (1979) had paid the USA around a billion to buy advanced weaponry for Iran.

Those 2 words alone makes me wonder about your ideological orientation.  My impression was, not many Americans would consider Carter's actions against Iran anything approaching even within 100 miles of wisely.  You wanna talk about US interference that caused Iranian people to get knocked out of their progressive trend and thrown back into the dark ages?  Thank you, Carter.  Like I said... as a non-American, it would be nice if the US can be a world leader (as their ideals of liberty is truly a beacon) but not put its fingers too much into the affairs of sovereign nations.

Edited November 14, 2017 by anatess2

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Hey!  How's that guy?  Did you lock him in a closet?  We need him back here!  I'd like to see him take on a few of our new hobby horse riders and see what shakes out!  I would love to introduce him to @Grunt!  I think they're gonna like each other.

He got... discouraged from coming back to the site.  I'm afraid I am to blame for putting the final nail in the coffin.  I told him in person that he should come back.  But he felt he wasn't welcome.  His... ehrr... bold... nature was not taken well on the site.

[anatess2]

5 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

He got... discouraged from coming back to the site.  I'm afraid I am to blame for putting the final nail in the coffin.  I told him in person that he should come back.  But he felt he wasn't welcome.  His... ehrr... bold... nature was not taken well on the site.

Tell him all he has to do is not say USmerica and we'll forgive him all his trespasses.  KIDDING KIDDING!  Really, he should know we enjoy diversity of thought here even as we like squabbling over it.  Tell him he should come back because we have @Rob Osborn now to get us distracted from squabbling with him. 

 

[anatess2]

15 hours ago, Alex said:

Yep, I sense something sinister unfurling very quickly here and the fact that one of you (a brother from the Philippines) welcomes the rise of this prince if it defeats Iranian backed terror says that there are probably saints in other nations where terrorism is a problem, who will also welcome his hand.

Just be careful with what you hope for.

 

Yeah, I'm a sister.    

And yes, I grew up under Marcos.  Martial Law.  Remember him?  You know they always say, oh Marcos is this evil person, the anti-Christ even.  Guess what.  Marcos prevented us from becoming Vietnam or Korea or communist China.  Yes.  MARCOS.  The guy whose wife has 3,000 pairs of shoes.  Guess who backed Marcos?  The US.

Then the Cold War was ended and the Philippines got rid of Marcos through a revolution.  And the Oligarchs took over and installed the wife of a communist sympathizer as President.  We went on another revolution to get rid of her and the US did F16 fly-bys over the Malacanang.  

Frankly, we're tired of the US interfering in our affairs.  Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama all contributed in the mess that we are in not just in the Middle East but also the Pacific theater.  We elected Duterte because he has no problem insulting American leaders and has a flexible foreign policy that doesn't bow down to any world power - allied or not - if it is not for our own best interests.  So the oligarchs are now getting the UN and the US Congress to oust Duterte.  Trump administration says - leave them alone.  America First means Filipinos should also put Philippines First.  That's his powerful speech at the UN that Filipinos were cheering for!  And that's why he's getting the red carpet treatment even in China that is getting beat up on trade agreements.

Do we welcome the rise of Prince X versus Prince Y?  IT'S NOT OUR CHOICE.  IT'S NOT OUR AFFAIR!  Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation ruled by their own monarchy with their own culture and their own people.  IT IS NOT OUR PLACE TO TELL THEM WHO THEY CAN HAVE AS KING.   But, we are fine with this Prince because his enemy is our enemy.  AND HELLO... WE ARE FIGHTING A WAR OVER HERE!  That's really all we can do.  We have no control over SA.  It is a sovereign nation.  We simply have control over how we react to them!  Anything that stops the flow of money to the terrorists we are ENGAGING IN AN ACTIVE WAR IN - where Filipino soldiers are getting killed at RIGHT NOW - WE WILL APPLAUD.  Do you understand this?  If that Prince becomes Hitler then we'll wage war against his minions in the Philippines then.  ONE WAR AT A TIME.  What would you rather we do?  Tell the Saudis we don't want them helping us defeat these people killing us right now?  Because... gasp, he might be the anti-Christ?  Okay, let's all just let our people die because some LDS punk thinks we should just die now instead of supporting a possible anti-Christ.  

It's such a crazy thing that the US is currently having a big cow over "foreign interference in our elections".  Oh yeah?  Remember your F16 fly-bys punks???

P.S. If you think... but but but Duterte declared the war ended 2 weeks ago!  Yeah, that's one war.  We've been dealing with these jihadists for decades.  It's not just gonna stop just because we killed their leaders in one conflict.  We kill a couple leaders, more rise up to replace them.  Whack a mole.

Edited November 14, 2017 by anatess2

[Blueskye2]

15 hours ago, Alex said:

Hmm, a couple of points.

1)  Carter wisely froze Iran's assets following the islamic revolution. For those who didn't know, the then Shah of Iran (1979) had paid the USA around a billion to buy advanced weaponry for Iran.

Yeah,  many would say the Shah was a greedy dictator but in context, the islamic revolution was/is far worse and that was why Reagan and Bush Snr backed Saddam- because Saddam opposed the Iranian Revolution. 

Then last year all of a sudden Obama turns around and unfreezes that money, giving it back to Islamist Iran. For some unknown reason Obama just knew better than any President since Carter as he opted to give extremist Iran all that money plus interest. Trump is rightly annoyed over the payment as were many who know that Iran funds Hezbollah (Hezbollah actually admitted it is funded by Iran).

Trump is backing the new prince in his purge of any Iranian influence in the Middle East and of course, Israel is so pleased that this new prince secretly visited Israel in October.

Things are moving here far more quickly than I've ever seen before- the war drums are beating over Lebanon, again, now that the Saudi prince has forced the Lebanese president to resign just 2 days ago. 

2) The dominoes are lining up here for another true 'Gulf War' (that is a war between the oil states on the Persian Gulf) and the Iranian missile fired at Saudi from Yemen a few days ago has to be responded to by Saudi- If I was a gambler I'd put money on Saudi invading Yemen in December to put down the Houthi rebellion.

Obviously I can't see the future but this prince's standing within Islam and the West is about to skyrocket- If he kills the radicals in Yemen the globe will applaud. If he feeds the families of the radicals in Yemen (much poverty there) the globe will applaud and even praise him.

Yep, I sense something sinister unfurling very quickly here and the fact that one of you (a brother from the Philippines) welcomes the rise of this prince if it defeats Iranian backed terror says that there are probably saints in other nations where terrorism is a problem, who will also welcome his hand.

Just be careful with what you hope for.

 

The Lebanese Patriarch of the Maronite Church met with King and Prince Salman. Amazing! The Crown Prince indicated he is going to open SA to al religions.  

Patriarch Bechara al-Rai said he supports the removal of the Labanese Prime Minister.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-lebanon-patriarch/lebanese-patriarch-in-saudi-says-supports-reasons-hariri-quit-idUSKBN1DE1XW

I don’t see this as the work of the anti-Christ. Anything that provides relief for Christians in Islam countries is good news.