The 7th Seal

[raven2]

On 11/21/2017 at 1:48 AM, Alex said:

No, it's a lease alright. What confuses people is that even the lease is incredibly valuable because of its prime location. Church owns the building but not the land. Church could have set out the lease to run past 2038 but deliberately didn't bother, hence the questions to Pres Hinckley asking why this is.

As I recall, there's also some trickiness in the lease itself as the church couldn't obtain the lease for a chapel but had to call it a cultural centre with a chapel attached- the visitors centre is not just a missionary tool but meets the requirements of the lease. That road is zoned for cultural purposes, hence the V & A being a few doors along the road and the Science Museum being across the road and the Royal Albert Hall being at the Hyde Park end of the road,

Here, this explains the definition of leasehold, as opposed to freehold:

https://www.gov.uk/leasehold-property

See, having an end date to ownership is what raised the question posed in the church news to begin with.

I know this thread is a little old but I did want to respond to this comment about the Hyde Park building. The church not only owns the building but the land it is on. There is no need for a ‘lease’. This would also mean that President Hinckley has no reason to be asked or to respond to a supposed question about the Hyde Park building, 2038 or its relationship to the Saviors second coming.

“The Church bought the land for the Hyde Park building when not a single member lived within a seven-mile radius; the site had remained empty since being bombed in World War II.“

Source: Hyde Park building in London to be beacon of light, hope, truth to all the world - Church News July 13, 2012.

Edited September 26, 2020 by raven2

[Kurtis]

On 11/17/2017 at 7:43 PM, my two cents said:

There are different stages to the Second Coming.

1 - Economy and U.S. government collapse.

2- Civil uprising with wide spread lawlesness and saints gathering to Zion (Only place of safety). Constitution Government set up in Zion.

3 - Battle of Gog & Magog (Russia against Israel). Ends with shaking of the earth and christ showing himself to surviving   jews at Jerusalem. Also, Armagedon (china against America). Ends with China surrounding saints, then enemy is destroyed with a disease at night so they "wake up and are all dead" Isaiah. This happened before to save Jerusalem.

4 - Mass apostasy of saints. Even the elect may be deceived.

5 - Gathering of israel to Zion. Jews to Jerusalem.

6 - Building of Temple in Missouri and Jerusalem.

7- Christ appearance at Andi-Ondi-Adam. And dedication of Missouri Temple. 

8 - Second Coming: Righteous caught-up to meet Christ. World burns, transformed into a Terrestial State and transported to a new location close to the center of the Galaxy.

[SpiritDragon]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:02 AM, Kurtis said:

1 - Economy and U.S. government collapse.

2- Civil uprising with wide spread lawlesness and saints gathering to Zion (Only place of safety). Constitution Government set up in Zion.

3 - Battle of Gog & Magog (Russia against Israel). Ends with shaking of the earth and christ showing himself to surviving   jews at Jerusalem. Also, Armagedon (china against America). Ends with China surrounding saints, then enemy is destroyed with a disease at night so they "wake up and are all dead" Isaiah. This happened before to save Jerusalem.

4 - Mass apostasy of saints. Even the elect may be deceived.

5 - Gathering of israel to Zion. Jews to Jerusalem.

6 - Building of Temple in Missouri and Jerusalem.

7- Christ appearance at Andi-Ondi-Adam. And dedication of Missouri Temple. 

8 - Second Coming: Righteous caught-up to meet Christ. World burns, transformed into a Terrestial State and transported to a new location close to the center of the Galaxy.

What are your sources on point number 3?

[Carborendum]

On 1/17/2023 at 11:02 AM, Kurtis said:

4 - Mass apostasy of saints. Even the elect may be deceived.

I'm interested in #4.  Recently, I've been having intimations of this.  But I don't know where I've read anything like it in scriptures.  I'm sure I have.  But I can't think of where.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Carborendum

[Traveler]

On 1/17/2023 at 10:02 AM, Kurtis said:

1 - Economy and U.S. government collapse.

2- Civil uprising with wide spread lawlesness and saints gathering to Zion (Only place of safety). Constitution Government set up in Zion.

3 - Battle of Gog & Magog (Russia against Israel). Ends with shaking of the earth and christ showing himself to surviving   jews at Jerusalem. Also, Armagedon (china against America). Ends with China surrounding saints, then enemy is destroyed with a disease at night so they "wake up and are all dead" Isaiah. This happened before to save Jerusalem.

4 - Mass apostasy of saints. Even the elect may be deceived.

5 - Gathering of israel to Zion. Jews to Jerusalem.

6 - Building of Temple in Missouri and Jerusalem.

7- Christ appearance at Andi-Ondi-Adam. And dedication of Missouri Temple. 

8 - Second Coming: Righteous caught-up to meet Christ. World burns, transformed into a Terrestial State and transported to a new location close to the center of the Galaxy.

A couple of notes - also for @SpiritDragon 

First for #3. Anciently Gog was a land much to the north of Israel that would be more in line with Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia and only a very little part of southern Russia near eastern Ukraine.  Magog was the king of Gog.  If a single country is to be named, it is most likely Georgia.  Obviously this is symbolic of something other than a current modern country.

Second for #’s 6 & 7.  There is a possibility that the city of Enoch and associated temple as well as Melchizedek and associated city of Salem and temple will all be restored – which could be the prophetic temple referenced as the Missouri Temple and Jerusalem Temple which could be brought back as they were taken which would negate the need to build and dedicate new temples.  

 

The Traveler

[romans8]

On 11/19/2017 at 12:02 AM, Vort said:

D&C 20:1 is not part of the revelation, was not penned nor dictated by the Prophet Joseph Smith, and is clearly a formulaic, formalistic, fancy-pants way of saying "April 6, 1830". So it is not any kind of reliable proof of the date of Jesus' birth or the correctness of Dionyseus Exiguus's year numbering system. Not saying I agree with Alex's statements or ideas, but I don't think D&C 20:1 refutes them.

I found this in the April 2014 General Conference

“Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth.”

[Just_A_Guy]

1 hour ago, romans8 said:

I found this in the April 2014 General Conference

“Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth.”

As much as I have been benefited from following Elder Bednar’s counsel and revere him as an apostle, I respectfully (and usually, quietly) disagree with his exegesis on this particular issue.

[Vort]

2 hours ago, romans8 said:

I found this in the April 2014 General Conference

“Today is April 6. We know by revelation that today is the actual and accurate date of the Savior’s birth.”

 Congratulations on your finely honed finding skills.

[Penny Lane]

On 11/18/2017 at 5:43 PM, Anddenex said:

Thank you for the thoughtful comments regarding my question. The thoughts have stemmed more around the second coming rather than signs of the 7th seal; however, I am good with both and the thoughts that have been shared.

A few names to check into James Prout lastdaystimeline.com,

https://www.lastdaystimeline.com/

 

 

Morgan Philpot watch all 3 this is part 2

... both go into detail of signs and Ezras Eagle the Apachropha

what we may be experiencing now are the vials, the sign of the sign of times.  I've been studying this since 2011, and I just recently came across the idea that the 7th seal may have been opened the evening of the dedication of the Palmyra Temple April 6, 2000.  I can't say for certain, but the entire scripture references both they two have are amazing to study.  Good luck

[askandanswer]

Welcome to the forum @Penny Lane, may your contributions be many and thought provoking. 

[laronius]

15 hours ago, Swarrior said:

I write this to respond to the initial request of the thread.   We are currently living under the 6th seal, because things which we are told will happen in the 6th seal haven't happened yet.  (see D&C 77)

The "second coming" is in actuality a series of events in which the Lord Jesus Christ makes an appearance.  The events in sequence are:

His appearance at the Temple In Mount Zion and with the 144,000 6th seal event 

His appearance at the Council of Adam-Ondi-Ahman           

The council of Adam-Ondi-Ahman, cannot take place until after Zion has been established and there is a people prepared to live a celestial law that Christ can live among. much has to happen still and in the future before this council can take place. Chief among them is the establishment of Zion in all her glory.

The Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith said:

“When this gathering is held, the world will not know of it; the members of the Church at large will not know of it, yet it shall be preparatory to the coming in the clouds of glory of our Savior Jesus Christ as the Prophet Joseph Smith has said. The world cannot know of it. The Saints cannot know of it—except those who officially shall be called into this council—for it shall precede the coming of Jesus Christ as a thief in the night, unbeknown to all the world.” (Way to Perfection, pp. 290–91.)

His appearance in Jerusalem when his feet touch the Mount of Olives 

Then finally the Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord       

We are told we/the earth have a temporal  existence of 6000 years.  I think we can take the Lord's word for that, therefore we can pretty much discern the the 7th seal would open.                                

Adam Born       0                
Seth Born         130                       
Enos                  105        235        
Cainan                90        325        
Mahalaleel          70        395        
Jared                  65        460        
Enoch               162        622        
Methuselah       65        687        
Lamech            187        874        
Noah                182      1056        
Flood              600       1656        
Arphaxad            2       1658        
Salah                35       1693        
Eber                 30       1723        
Peleg               34        1757        
Reu                  30        1787        
Serug              32         1819        
Nahor             30       1849        
Terah             29       1878        
Abram          130       2008        1953BC

Adam to Christ = -3961 years
Birthday issues =     -10 years 
no year 0      + 1    year

You will end up with -3970 years 
Add 6000 years you end up with 2030 which is when we might expect the 7th seal to open

So between now and then some pretty miraculous events have to occur in American

The anti-Christ will make his appearance 
The saints will suffer
Civil war will break out - state against state - see John Taylor's vision
The missionaries will be called home 
Vengeance and fury will be poured out 
The Assyrian will come in like a flood 
The New Jerusalem will be established 
The ten tribes will return . . .  just to name a few 

The Book of Mormon was written for our time.  If used correctly, it will give you almost a year by year account of what you can expect. 

Their new Millennium started when Christ was born
Ours started in 2000  
Line them up and you can pretty much predict what and when things will happen. The Nephites didn't have a year 0, so remember that when you make your alignment. 

I don't much concern myself with much past Mount Zion coming into her own in power and Glory.  

I think this kind of thing is fun to consider but you are making way too many assumptions to come to a definitive answer. A lot of it is based on interpretation that may or may not be correct. For example, the earth has a temporal existence of 6000 years. I interpret that as not including the Garden of Eden period. So if Adam lived 130 years before Seth does that include the time in the garden? That alone could greatly alter your timeline.

Strictly from my opinion, while I recognize some things could happen pretty quickly and I'd love for the Second Coming to be 6 years out, I just don't see it all happening by then. But of course that is just my opinion.

[Michael Thomas]

In the Doctrine and Covenants 77:13, Joseph asks the Lord when the things are to be accomplished written in the 9th chapter of Revelation? He is answered that they are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal before the coming of Christ. My personal belief is that we are living in the beginning of the millennium at this time, and we can expect a great many cataclysmic events to take place soon. According to Revelations 8 and 9 we have a lot to look forward to before the Lord comes. His coming will begin the millennium of peace but not the actual beginning of the seventh thousand year period. 

[Traveler]

On 2/12/2025 at 10:19 AM, Michael Thomas said:

In the Doctrine and Covenants 77:13, Joseph asks the Lord when the things are to be accomplished written in the 9th chapter of Revelation? He is answered that they are to be accomplished after the opening of the seventh seal before the coming of Christ. My personal belief is that we are living in the beginning of the millennium at this time, and we can expect a great many cataclysmic events to take place soon. According to Revelations 8 and 9 we have a lot to look forward to before the Lord comes. His coming will begin the millennium of peace but not the actual beginning of the seventh thousand year period. 

Welcome to the forum Michael.  I am interested in your post and would like to engage in conversation.  As I have considered things, it seems that there is much to take into account.  I am somewhat of the opinion that there are several events, processes or scriptural ear marks.  Often these things are spoken of as though they are expressions of a single event (very possible in my mind).  Or they could also be separate events – though related – maybe even years, decades or more apart.  I will make a list of what I believe these events are:

One: The 7^th Seal

Two: The Last Days

Three: The Gathering of Israel

Four: The Restoration of all things

Five: The Destruction of the Wicked

Six: The Divine protection of the Righteous (pillar of fire by night and smoke by day – being caught up)

Seven: Time of Turbulence.

Eight: Ringing in of the Millennium

Nine: Coming of Christ to reign as king

Ten: Establishment of Zion (Jackson County Missouri)

Eleven: The Rise of the Anti-Christ.

Twelve: The battle or war of Armageddon.

Thirteen: Two Witnesses protecting Jerusalem – killed and lying in the streets of Jerusalem – then being raised up

I have been of the mind that the opening of the 7 seal and the ushering in of the Millennium are the same thing.  Could you elaborate more detail concerning your opinion of this matter.  I am open to discussion with you are anyone else that would like to join in on the discussion. 

 

The Traveler