Jane_Doe Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, zil said: Just because we don't (yet) know or understand something does not mean it doesn't make sense. The two are not synonymous. In the case of the Holy Ghost, we are simply lacking in sufficient knowledge to understand. I'm certain that how he does what he does makes perfect sense. I don't understand how my car works. But I believe it works and makes sense to somebody. Sunday21, NeedleinA and wenglund 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: I don't understand how my car works. But I believe it works and makes sense to somebody. Well, that depends on your car - I mean, Yugos make no sense to anybody... Jane_Doe, wenglund and Sunday21 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Hmm, praising the spirit requires some detailed instruction. I shall pray and ask for this to be discussed in conference. I would pray and ask for the spirit to guide me on how to praise him - a bit odd, yes- but he tends to give me impressions or feelings rather than specific detail. Yes, he can give specific detail on specific things but it requires so much work on my behalf... it's just much easier to request a spiritually attuned apostle answer such a query. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I just called the missionaries on this and had a good talk. It came to a stalemate, though. They said that there was doctrine that established we will become Gods, but they are looking it up to send me. Someone else said the true doctrine was "exalted" with no further explanation and the rest is supposed, then THAT I can accept. If the doctrine is we will become Gods, then that is something I would need to read the doctrine on and ponder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang=eng Note: The New and Everlasting Covenant refers to celestial marriage (i.e. Temple marriage) and not plural marriage. Edited December 1, 2017 by bytebear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 29 minutes ago, Grunt said: I just called the missionaries on this and had a good talk. It came to a stalemate, though. They said that there was doctrine that established we will become Gods, but they are looking it up to send me. Someone else said the true doctrine was "exalted" with no further explanation and the rest is supposed, then THAT I can accept. If the doctrine is we will become Gods, then that is something I would need to read the doctrine on and ponder. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/76.50-70?lang=eng#p49 https://www.lds.org/scriptures/tg/man-potential-to-become-like-heavenly-father?lang=eng https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132.1-24?lang=eng#p1 Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 33 minutes ago, Grunt said: I just called the missionaries on this and had a good talk. It came to a stalemate, though. They said that there was doctrine that established we will become Gods, but they are looking it up to send me. Someone else said the true doctrine was "exalted" with no further explanation and the rest is supposed, then THAT I can accept. If the doctrine is we will become Gods, then that is something I would need to read the doctrine on and ponder. We've been talking about exaltation this entire time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Grunt said: I just called the missionaries on this and had a good talk. It came to a stalemate, though. They said that there was doctrine that established we will become Gods, but they are looking it up to send me. Someone else said the true doctrine was "exalted" with no further explanation and the rest is supposed, then THAT I can accept. If the doctrine is we will become Gods, then that is something I would need to read the doctrine on and ponder. D&C 132: 19, 20. Verse twenty states "Gods" in no uncertain terms. edit Here: 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them. 21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory. ((I reckon the missionaries are good for Faith, Repentance, Baptism, TGOTHG and "back home..." but not too much else)) Edited December 1, 2017 by Alex Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: We've been talking about exaltation this entire time. So not EVERYONE will reach "godhood". There are angels who didn't receive exaltation? Edited December 1, 2017 by Grunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Ministering angels did not reach godhood, but some people have been angels before exaltation, like Moroni, Gabriel, etc. An angel can mean a messenger from God, or be a specific state of being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytebear Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) Also, I see a distinction from "gods" (little g) and God (big G) which generally is used to mean God the Father, the Godhead, or perhaps the collective body of the exalted. In other words, we not only become gods, but we become one with God. There is only one God. Edited December 1, 2017 by bytebear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, Grunt said: So not EVERYONE will reach "godhood". There are angels who didn't receive exaltation? Yes. We believe in three degrees of glory after the resurrection - the Celestial (where God is), the Terrestrial (no one here will be exalted or be a god), the Telestial (no one here will be exalted or be a god). Those are the three degrees of glory. There's also outer darkness, or perdition, where Satan is and where the Sons of Perdition will go (those who refuse to accept Christ, who totally and knowingly reject all glory). Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Grunt said: So not EVERYONE will reach "godhood". There are angels who didn't receive exaltation? Correct. We also do usually call it exhalation. It's just a more normal word choice. Edited December 1, 2017 by Jane_Doe Maureen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 This makes a little more sense. It's still a major stretch for me, but I'll keep reading. I already missed supper anyway, AND I have a 15 hour trip tomorrow on which to study. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just_A_Guy Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jane_Doe said: We also do usually call it exhalation. 2 minutes ago, Grunt said: It's still a major stretch for me, but I'll keep reading. Deep breaths, guys. Deep breaths. Jane_Doe, zil, Midwest LDS and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zil Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 9 minutes ago, Just_A_Guy said: Deep breaths, guys. Deep breaths. First we're exhausted, now we're exhaling. I wonder what we'll be next. Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Osborn Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 2 hours ago, zil said: Just because we don't (yet) know or understand something does not mean it doesn't make sense. The two are not synonymous. In the case of the Holy Ghost, we are simply lacking in sufficient knowledge to understand. I'm certain that how he does what he does makes perfect sense. Oh, Im sure it makes perfect sense eventually. Its the here and now understanding that makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane_Doe Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Just_A_Guy said: Deep breaths, guys. Deep breaths. There are some words I just can't spell.... *sigh*. Deep breathes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 6 hours ago, zil said: First we're exhausted, now we're exhaling. I wonder what we'll be next. And there I was, arguing with the missionaries..... "No, we become heavy breathing, some girl on the internet said so...." zil and Sunday21 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, zil said: First we're exhausted, now we're exhaling. I wonder what we'll be next. exhausted, exhaling, excellent, then exceedingly excellent, then exhumed (resurrected - See Matt:27:52) then exalted? Edited December 1, 2017 by askandanswer zil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Gooday @Grunt I've only read bits and pieces of this thread so somebody might have already said this. This https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng is a link to the King Follett discourse, which is widely regarded as the first public statement by Joseph Smith about the idea that a man can become a god. This discourse is the foundation on which the man to god doctrine is built. Its pretty much the walls and ceilings as well. There's scriptural support for the idea as indicated in @zil's post above, but at this time of night the only one that readily comes to mind for me is (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 84:38) 38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father's kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him. And of course there is always the question of what father (Father) wouldn't want his (His) children to grow up and become like him (Him). Grunt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, askandanswer said: Gooday @Grunt I've only read bits and pieces of this thread so somebody might have already said this. This https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/04/the-king-follett-sermon?lang=eng is a link to the King Follett discourse, which is widely regarded as the first public statement by Joseph Smith about the idea that a man can become a god. This discourse is the foundation on which the man to god doctrine is built. Its pretty much the walls and ceilings as well. There's scriptural support for the idea as indicated in @zil's post above, but at this time of night the only one that readily comes to mind for me is (Doctrine and Covenants | Section 84:38) 38 And he that receiveth my Father receiveth my Father's kingdom; therefore all that my Father hath shall be given unto him. And of course there is always the question of what father (Father) wouldn't want his (His) children to grow up and become like him (Him). Thanks! Since my flight is in a few hours, I've spent most of the night reading and referencing. Since most of the doctrine to support this belief is from revelation, which I still have difficulty accepting the accuracy or permanence of, I'll have to ponder it. It's going to take awhile to get through it all. Mostly, I'm reading the essay someone linked to earlier and backtracking from there. I'm on D&C 88 currently. Jane_Doe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grunt Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 I really do value what you all post and I honestly note most of it then reference and research it. It just takes awhile. I don't want you folks to think that I don't appreciate the time you take to reference and respond. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to learn. I ask questions, then research the responses, then ask MORE questions, wash-rinse-repeat. It's harder now since I'm moving past what I consider "the basics". Jane_Doe and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 You're going to get what you need most through prayer and the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, rather than study, although study helps a lot. I can't help wondering if you haven't already received what you need through prayer and the Holy Ghost, but just haven't quite acted on it yet or responded to it in the preferred manner? zil and Jane_Doe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
askandanswer Posted December 1, 2017 Report Share Posted December 1, 2017 Having said that, I should also say that I admire and respect the care and diligence, the time and work, and the mental effort you are putting into this. I hope that your study of the gospel will be one of those occasions where the more you put into something, the more you get out of it. I'm very confident that if pursued to the end, the outcome will enormously exceed your inputs. Jane_Doe and zil 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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