Why we don't live in Zion (and why we should be happy about that)

[Vort]

Intentionally provocative title notwithstanding, most of us yearn to live in Zion. And we should. But not now. Right now, this is where we belong, in this filthy, perverse, sin-riddled world. Here's my morning's pondering, which I thought some might enjoy.

This morning, my eleven-year-old has been watching some documentary on YouTube about people with extraordinary memory recall. These people can remember events in the news and their own lives on almost any given day that you ask about. Unsurprisingly, such people often feel isolated, with no one else who really understands what it's like. Some even see this ability as a curse, such as an inability to forget bad or unkind things they did.

Let's say that a community of such people formed. Maybe ten thousand or a hundred thousand, maybe a million. They all live together in a city. Their primary interaction is with each other. What would that society be like? Court cases would be much different from how they're depicted on TV, certainly. None of this "I do not recall" business when asked where you were on October 21, 1997. But more importantly, every aspect of life would be different for such people. The very way they interacted on a day-to-day basis would change. The culture would be different.

Now, let's suppose that you, a "normal", non-exceptional-memory-ability person, were to visit this city for a week, or a month, or maybe a year. Can you imagine how it would go? At first, all would be fine as you began adapting to this somewhat different culture. But soon enough, probably the day you arrive, you'll get rudely awakened to your deficiency -- a deficiency you never realized you even had. You're sitting in a group, and someone mentions their sadness at the news seventeen years ago today. Immediately, everyone nods -- except you. Desperately, you try to figure out when that would be. Let's see, that would be March 3, 2001, right? So what happened then? You haven't the slightest clue. September 11 you remember, but otherwise? No idea. So you quietly say, "What was the bad news?" Everyone turns and looks at you with a curious expression, then someone says, "Oh, today is March 3." Doesn't help. You have to ask, "Look, sorry, but what happened on March 3 of 2001?" People eye you curiously, and someone says, "Louis Edmonds died. You know, the guy from Dark Shadows."

Oh. Well of course.

In very short order, you would come to realize that You Are An Idiot. Literally, I mean. You can't function in the society of that city, because you lack the intellectual necessities. The "exceptional" memory that these people have isn't exceptional to them, it's normal, and you are severely handicapped. In such a society, it would be difficult for you even to have strong friendships, much less something like intimacy. Sure, you might find some patient, loving people willing to tolerate your astonishing lack of memory. But even if everyone were patient and kind, you would quickly feel overwhelmed and incompetent -- because you would be.

Zion is filled with people who love Christ and love each other as Christ does. That is what we want. That is what we should strive for. That is the celestial kingdom. But we, today, are not ready for that. It might be a nice place to visit, but for the moment, we would not want to live there, because we're too spiritually stupid to thrive there. We have too much damage from the wickedness around us and are too drawn to our sins. We're the junkies at a halfway house, learning to reject the poisons and to act as civilized, social human beings.

So maybe while we're despairing at the evils of the society we live in, we might reflect that, in this wicked world, we might actually be of some use. In Zion, in our present state, we would be all but useless, except maybe as someone others could practice charity on. If we pursue our path, we will eventually be granted the gifts we need to live in Zion. Until then, we have the kingdom of God, which is after all Zion (or at least an echo of Zion). All things will come to those with faith.

[NeuroTypical]

Fake response: Speak for yourself Buckwheat, I'm a friggin' spiritual ninja.

Real response: That was insightful and eye-opening.  Thank you.

[Rob Osborn]

And yet, we are commanded to build zion wherever we are.

[The Folk Prophet]

It's an interesting idea. I don't believe it. 

[laronius]

I would like to think that my association with Zion people would inspire me to do better but I do see the potential for embarrassment:

Priesthood leader: Our string of 99 months in a row of perfect home teaching came to an end last month.

Me: Doh! 

[Traveler]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 12:21 PM, Vort said:

Intentionally provocative title notwithstanding, most of us yearn to live in Zion. And we should. But not now. Right now, this is where we belong, in this filthy, perverse, sin-riddled world. Here's my morning's pondering, which I thought some might enjoy.

This morning, my eleven-year-old has been watching some documentary on YouTube about people with extraordinary memory recall. These people can remember events in the news and their own lives on almost any given day that you ask about. Unsurprisingly, such people often feel isolated, with no one else who really understands what it's like. Some even see this ability as a curse, such as an inability to forget bad or unkind things they did.

Let's say that a community of such people formed. Maybe ten thousand or a hundred thousand, maybe a million. They all live together in a city. Their primary interaction is with each other. What would that society be like? Court cases would be much different from how they're depicted on TV, certainly. None of this "I do not recall" business when asked where you were on October 21, 1997. But more importantly, every aspect of life would be different for such people. The very way they interacted on a day-to-day basis would change. The culture would be different.

Now, let's suppose that you, a "normal", non-exceptional-memory-ability person, were to visit this city for a week, or a month, or maybe a year. Can you imagine how it would go? At first, all would be fine as you began adapting to this somewhat different culture. But soon enough, probably the day you arrive, you'll get rudely awakened to your deficiency -- a deficiency you never realized you even had. You're sitting in a group, and someone mentions their sadness at the news seventeen years ago today. Immediately, everyone nods -- except you. Desperately, you try to figure out when that would be. Let's see, that would be March 3, 2001, right? So what happened then? You haven't the slightest clue. September 11 you remember, but otherwise? No idea. So you quietly say, "What was the bad news?" Everyone turns and looks at you with a curious expression, then someone says, "Oh, today is March 3." Doesn't help. You have to ask, "Look, sorry, but what happened on March 3 of 2001?" People eye you curiously, and someone says, "Louis Edmonds died. You know, the guy from Dark Shadows."

Oh. Well of course.

In very short order, you would come to realize that You Are An Idiot. Literally, I mean. You can't function in the society of that city, because you lack the intellectual necessities. The "exceptional" memory that these people have isn't exceptional to them, it's normal, and you are severely handicapped. In such a society, it would be difficult for you even to have strong friendships, much less something like intimacy. Sure, you might find some patient, loving people willing to tolerate your astonishing lack of memory. But even if everyone were patient and kind, you would quickly feel overwhelmed and incompetent -- because you would be.

Zion is filled with people who love Christ and love each other as Christ does. That is what we want. That is what we should strive for. That is the celestial kingdom. But we, today, are not ready for that. It might be a nice place to visit, but for the moment, we would not want to live there, because we're too spiritually stupid to thrive there. We have too much damage from the wickedness around us and are too drawn to our sins. We're the junkies at a halfway house, learning to reject the poisons and to act as civilized, social human beings.

So maybe while we're despairing at the evils of the society we live in, we might reflect that, in this wicked world, we might actually be of some use. In Zion, in our present state, we would be all but useless, except maybe as someone others could practice charity on. If we pursue our path, we will eventually be granted the gifts we need to live in Zion. Until then, we have the kingdom of God, which is after all Zion (or at least an echo of Zion). All things will come to those with faith.

@Vort

I have an older brother with a photographic memory – I know what it is like to be overshadowed.  The truth is, once you get over the ego thing being around really smart people is not so bad.  Growing up I was always the black sheep of the family – in the rest of the world (except with my wife and kinds) I am a borderline genius.   To be honest – I prefer being the black sheep – the pressure to be smart is not worth it.  It is more fun to be able celebrate mediocre accomplishments instead of greater things being expected.  But then this may be what you are implying all along.

 

The Traveler

[The Folk Prophet]

Now that I have a bit of time let me expand on why I don't believe it.

I think @Vort is putting "Zion" in mortality on a bit of a pedestal. That sounds weird, I know. I mean the people in Zion though. I don't think to reach Zion means we are perfect. Only one person ever lived a perfect life. It seems to me that those in Zion were still mortal, still had weaknesses, etc. I don't think the divide between the righteous in our times and the righteous in communities that became Zion is as wide as you make it sound.

Honestly, I've long felt that if we want to bring about Zion, the best course would be to get 100% home and visiting teaching in every ward. I know we're not there. But there are many who do that pretty successfully, and they magnify their callings and  serve, etc.

What more do we expect those in Zion to be than obedient, faithful servants of God? Are there really no obedient faithful servants of God in our time? Clearly there are.

For those of us who may not quite be there but are working on it, we (presuming activity) interact with those who are there weekly. Do we really feel dwarfed by them as if they're some entirely different species?

I dunno. Maybe you're right. But I think you're stretching the idea of Zion beyond mortality. And whereas Zion is certainly symbolic for the Celestial Kingdom, I don't think that communities who attain the level, particularly at the start, are Celestial beings yet.

[Colirio]

Some thoughts...

 

Charity is a gift. Without the Atonement and attendant spiritual blessings, none of us would ever merit the gift of charity or living in Zion. But with those God given blessings, we can. 

 

So, without God's grace, none of us can live there. Therefore, it is a completely empty city. With His grace, those who seek can, and will, find that they fit right in with everyone else who has done the same. 

 

 

In General Conference last year, Elder Neil L. Andersen quoted President David O. McKay's vision. It seems appropriate to quote him here: 

"Many years ago, President David O. McKay told of a beautiful experience he had while sailing on a boat toward Samoa. After falling asleep, he “beheld in vision something infinitely sublime. In the distance,” he said, “I beheld a beautiful white city. … Trees with luscious fruit … and flowers in perfect bloom abounded everywhere. … A great concourse of people [was] approaching the city. Each one wore a white flowing robe. … Instantly my attention … centered upon their leader, and though I could see only the profile of his features … , I recognized him at once as my Savior! The … radiance of his countenance [was] glorious. … [The] peace about him … was divine!”

President McKay continues, “The city … was his … the City Eternal; and the people following him were to abide there in peace and eternal happiness.”

President McKay wondered, “Who [are] they? [Who are these people?]”

He explains what happened next:

“As if the Savior read my thoughts, he answered by pointing to [words in] a semicircle that … appeared above [the people], … written in gold … :

“‘These Are They Who Have Overcome the World—

“Who Have Truly Been Born Again!’”"

[warnerfranklin]

Elder Holland mentioned in a talk that in these latter days Zion will be where we are. In our homes, in our hearts, or wherever we may be. 

[mordorbund]

Think not when you gather to Zion,
Your troubles and trials are through,
That nothing but comfort and pleasure
Are waiting in Zion for you.
No, no, 'tis designed as a furnace,
All substance, all textures to try,
To burn all the " wood, hay, and stubble, "
The gold from the dross purify.

Think not when you gather to Zion,
That all will be holy and pure;
That fraud and deception are banished,
And confidence wholly secure.
No, no, for the Lord our Redeemer
Has said that the tares with the wheat
Must grow till the great day of burning
Shall render the harvest complete.

Think not when you gather to Zion,
The saints here have nothing to do
But to look to your personal welfare,
And always be comforting you.
No, those who are faithful are doing
What they find to do with their might;
To gather the scattered of Israel
They labor by day and by night.

Think not when you gather to Zion,
The prize and the victory won.
Think not that the warfare is ended,
The work of salvation is done.
No, no, for the great prince of darkness
A tenfold exertion will make,
When he sees you go to the fountain,
Where freely the truth you may take.

-Eliza R. Snow

[lostinwater]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:21 AM, Vort said:

So maybe while we're despairing at the evils of the society we live in, we might reflect that, in this wicked world, we might actually be of some use. In Zion, in our present state, we would be all but useless, except maybe as someone others could practice charity on. If we pursue our path, we will eventually be granted the gifts we need to live in Zion. Until then, we have the kingdom of God, which is after all Zion (or at least an echo of Zion). All things will come to those with faith.

i'd like to think that we are worth more to God and Jesus than what we do.  i honestly think the reason i profess to belong to Christianity is because Jesus likes me.  i know of lots of people who will readily pull out their scalpel and begin to hack and carve on me in the name of love, but what really draws me in is the idea that Jesus would like to spend time with me - warts and all.  Those are the kind of people i *want* to change for.   i think pretty much anyone can detect (and detests) people that profess to love them, and yet you can feel the negative/judging persona steaming off of them.  Knowing that underneath the love they profess is a giant ax waiting to chop off one of my fingers should my performance lag.

Perhaps that means i'm a celestial moocher, or a snowflake, or a prick, or a hundred other descriptors (many of which are probably true  ) - but a heaven on which is superimposed this  looming sense of not measuring up.  It just wouldn't be heaven for me.  But perhaps that is why there are many rooms in heaven.

But i am probably misunderstanding the whole nature of your post - and so let me apologize in advance.

Edited March 7, 2018 by lostinwater