No more games in Sacrament

[Grunt]

5 hours ago, seashmore said:

^^^This!

Also, am VERY glad that my YW can't lurk on IG or Pinterest before the lesson.  Surprised Snapchat wasn't listed.

Now, can we get rid of the automatic pop ups when you open the Gospel Library app that won't go away, even when you click "watch later?"  Frustrating switching between the GL app and a picture on my iPad for a lesson.

Interesting.  My pop ups go away and don’t come back when I hit “watch later”. 

[askandanswer]

13 hours ago, mgridle said:

Rugged individualism, that is what made this country great.  It's why no other country or people in the history of the world has done what the US did.  It truly was an exceptional nation.

LOL

[NightSG]

On 5/2/2018 at 8:31 AM, Lost Boy said:

It didn't mention facebook.  Interesting....

Or Ashley Madison.

[e-eye]

On 5/2/2018 at 6:31 AM, Lost Boy said:

It didn't mention facebook.  Interesting....

I wonder if VPN will still work.  If so, it is easy to get around all of that.  Of course there are data plans.

 

I told my daughter of the new blocks and she laughed - she said all the kids just use a VPN so they can get around it at church and at school.  That option needs to be shut down.  

[Vort]

2 minutes ago, e-eye said:

I told my daughter of the new blocks and she laughed - she said all the kids just use a VPN so they can get around it at church and at school.  That option needs to be shut down.  

This is not a hard problem to solve. All the kids' parents need to be confiscating phones. The "problem" vanishes immediately.

[Lost Boy]

13 minutes ago, Vort said:

This is not a hard problem to solve. All the kids' parents need to be confiscating phones. The "problem" vanishes immediately.

You seem to think parents would support you on this.  I doubt most parents are willing to fight that battle.

[mgridle]

18 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

You seem to think parents would support you on this.  I doubt most parents are willing to fight that battle.

If you raise your kids right, it shouldn't be a battle-if it is you've got bigger problems as a parent.

[Vort]

36 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

You seem to think parents would support you on this.  I doubt most parents are willing to fight that battle.

What battle? "Give me your phone." Conversation over.

[lostinwater]

7 minutes ago, Vort said:

What battle? "Give me your phone." Conversation over.

You have some very obedient children.  

[NightSG]

20 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Kicking your kids out of your house is what led to your broken families where a multi-millionaire hollywood celebrity goes on TV to say the welfare program is necessary because she has family who are on welfare and they really need it. 

Yeah, it's a terrible thing.  We should avoid books that command it.  🙄

[Vort]

3 minutes ago, lostinwater said:

You have some very obedient children.  

I honestly don't understand. If you have raised your children with any amount of discipline, what teenager would not hand over "his" (read: your) phone when instructed?

And if they said "no", the conversation would lead to steadily worse consequences for them.

Parent: Give me your phone.
Teen: No.
Parent: I'm not asking. Give me your phone now.
Teen: No.
Parent: If you want to act like an obstinate six-year-old, you will be treated like one. You are grounded. You may not leave the house except for school. Your phone will be cut off, and you will not get it back.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: That is how we have to treat our recalcitrant six-year-olds. They can't make mature decisions for themselves, so we do it for them.
Teen: I hate you!
Parent: Okay, you're allowed to hate me. But you're not allowed to say it. Now your grounding is extended for the rest of the month.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: Seriously, you need to stop right now. You don't want this to go on any longer.
Teen: You suck!
Parent: Now you are confined to your bedroom. Go.
Teen: You can't make me!
Parent (who can make him): Do you really want to test that theory?
Parent (who can't make him): I do not want to get outside authority like the police involved. That would be terrible and might tear our family apart. But I will, if you refuse to obey me.
<etc.>

I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

[mgridle]

47 minutes ago, Vort said:

What battle? "Give me your phone." Conversation over.

Same wavelength, man.  It unfortunately took me longer than it should have to realize how to actually be an authoritative parent-and that it was the best way.  

But man, when you get it-it makes life soooo much easier.

[mgridle]

31 minutes ago, Vort said:

I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

Exactly, certainly some children are more obstinate than others, but if you teach them properly they will recognize that they have the freedom to be obstinate and consequently their life will be worse than it could be. If they choose for it to be worse-that's fine, their choice, but I'll make sure they know it ain't a good choice.

I don't run a democracy in my household-you want your own rules-cool go live on your own, until then my house, my rules-deal with with.

[Lost Boy]

53 minutes ago, Vort said:

What battle? "Give me your phone." Conversation over.

Works for some.

[mgridle]

2 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

Works for some.

Nope-works for all who have children who are properly disciplined.

I don't get power struggles with kids.  You are the adult-you have all the trump cards, period. The kid didn't go out and buy the phone, the kid didn't work for it, the kid doesn't pay the bills on it, no Dad did (most likely). So who's phone is it really?  Dad's. If I pay for it, I can just as easily stop paying for it too-Be the Authority Figure.

This is why most kids are entitled snowflake, must have a cry room for college wussies. No one in life told them the greatest word for a kid. No! Kids need lots of Vitamin N-No. 

The more you give your child heavy doses of Vitamin N (and actually stick buy it), the easier giving Vitamin N becomes.  It's a piece of cake; parents (especially mom's) these days are so "overwhelmed", yeap you're overwhelmed b/c you let the kids rule the roost and don't tell them No and mean it.

[Lost Boy]

5 minutes ago, mgridle said:

Nope-works for all who have children who are properly disciplined.

I don't get power struggles with kids.  You are the adult-you have all the trump cards, period. The kid didn't go out and buy the phone, the kid didn't work for it, the kid doesn't pay the bills on it, no Dad did (most likely). So who's phone is it really?  Dad's. If I pay for it, I can just as easily stop paying for it too-Be the Authority Figure.

This is why most kids are entitled snowflake, must have a cry room for college wussies. No one in life told them the greatest word for a kid. No! Kids need lots of Vitamin N-No. 

The more you give your child heavy doses of Vitamin N (and actually stick buy it), the easier giving Vitamin N becomes.  It's a piece of cake; parents (especially mom's) these days are so "overwhelmed", yeap you're overwhelmed b/c you let the kids rule the roost and don't tell them No and mean it.

You put that contingency on there  "who are properly disciplined"  Most families I know do not have children that are "properly disciplined"

[mgridle]

9 minutes ago, Lost Boy said:

You put that contingency on there  "who are properly disciplined"  Most families I know do not have children that are "properly disciplined"

Very good point.  It is unfortunate that most families you know do not have children who are properly disciplined.  A very sad, sad state of affairs. It's weird, it wasn't this bad when I was growing up, sure some families were better at it than others, but today it is rare to find a family with properly disciplined kids.

Too much of the world influencing families-sad situation.

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, NightSG said:

Yeah, it's a terrible thing.  We should avoid books that command it.  🙄

You're probably on your mobile device.  Emojis from the device show up as blank squares so I'm gonna plug in the emoji I think goes with that comment.... 

[anatess2]

1 hour ago, Vort said:

I honestly don't understand. If you have raised your children with any amount of discipline, what teenager would not hand over "his" (read: your) phone when instructed?

And if they said "no", the conversation would lead to steadily worse consequences for them.

Parent: Give me your phone.
Teen: No.
Parent: I'm not asking. Give me your phone now.
Teen: No.
Parent: If you want to act like an obstinate six-year-old, you will be treated like one. You are grounded. You may not leave the house except for school. Your phone will be cut off, and you will not get it back.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: That is how we have to treat our recalcitrant six-year-olds. They can't make mature decisions for themselves, so we do it for them.
Teen: I hate you!
Parent: Okay, you're allowed to hate me. But you're not allowed to say it. Now your grounding is extended for the rest of the month.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: Seriously, you need to stop right now. You don't want this to go on any longer.
Teen: You suck!
Parent: Now you are confined to your bedroom. Go.
Teen: You can't make me!
Parent (who can make him): Do you really want to test that theory?
Parent (who can't make him): I do not want to get outside authority like the police involved. That would be terrible and might tear our family apart. But I will, if you refuse to obey me.
<etc.>

I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

I posit that the first "No" answer already shows something was missed in the child's upbringing and the rest of the convo is moot.  A 6-year-old saying "No"... ok.  A teen-ager saying "No"... something went wrong in the previous 12 years that requires drastic correction.

I was one of those obstinate teens.  But I knew better than to outright tell my Dad "No" in that manner.  So, okay, I would blast through curfew because I figured a whoopping is a whoopping and getting whoopped at 9:01 is the same as getting whoopped at 2am.  But I knew I was in for a whoopping... well, actually, it's not a whooping but all 3 mysteries of the rosary while kneeling... sometimes on salt, sometimes with Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin on one outstretched hand and Grimm's Fairy Tales and Anderson's Fairy Tales on the other.  So basically it's just a calculation on how to make the punishment so that the trip is not worth the pain.  There's no ensuing convo before the whooping.  I know what the consequences are before I do the deed or say the word.  I simply decided it's worth getting punished for so my Dad proceeds with it without needing to argue with me about it.

Edited May 3, 2018 by anatess2

[Lost Boy]

1 hour ago, mgridle said:

Very good point.  It is unfortunate that most families you know do not have children who are properly disciplined.  A very sad, sad state of affairs. It's weird, it wasn't this bad when I was growing up, sure some families were better at it than others, but today it is rare to find a family with properly disciplined kids.

Too much of the world influencing families-sad situation.

I used to have lots of chores around the house.  Gardening, hauling wood, feeding animals, etc.  Most kids don't have that many chores.  It wasn't like my dad made up stuff for me to do.  They were things that needed to be done.  Most families around here don't have that many things for kids to do.  A new generation and it is only going to get worse with more and more automation.

[Grunt]

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

I posit that the first "No" answer already shows something was missed in the child's upbringing and the rest of the convo is moot.  A 6-year-old saying "No"... ok.  A teen-ager saying "No"... something went wrong in the previous 12 years that requires drastic correction.

I was one of those obstinate teens.  But I knew better than to outright tell my Dad "No" in that manner.  So, okay, I would blast through curfew because I figured a whoopping is a whoopping and getting whoopped at 9:01 is the same as getting whoopped at 2am.  But I knew I was in for a whoopping... well, actually, it's not a whooping but all 3 mysteries of the rosary while kneeling... sometimes on salt, sometimes with Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin on one outstretched hand and Grimm's Fairy Tales and Anderson's Fairy Tales on the other.  So basically it's just a calculation on how to make the punishment so that the trip is not worth the pain.  There's no ensuing convo before the whooping.  I know what the consequences are before I do the deed or say the word.  I simply decided it's worth getting punished for so my Dad proceeds with it without needing to argue with me about it.

Heh.  I laugh at the idea of my children saying no to me.

[lostinwater]

5 hours ago, Vort said:

I honestly don't understand. If you have raised your children with any amount of discipline, what teenager would not hand over "his" (read: your) phone when instructed?

And if they said "no", the conversation would lead to steadily worse consequences for them.

Parent: Give me your phone.
Teen: No.
Parent: I'm not asking. Give me your phone now.
Teen: No.
Parent: If you want to act like an obstinate six-year-old, you will be treated like one. You are grounded. You may not leave the house except for school. Your phone will be cut off, and you will not get it back.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: That is how we have to treat our recalcitrant six-year-olds. They can't make mature decisions for themselves, so we do it for them.
Teen: I hate you!
Parent: Okay, you're allowed to hate me. But you're not allowed to say it. Now your grounding is extended for the rest of the month.
Teen: That's not fair!
Parent: Seriously, you need to stop right now. You don't want this to go on any longer.
Teen: You suck!
Parent: Now you are confined to your bedroom. Go.
Teen: You can't make me!
Parent (who can make him): Do you really want to test that theory?
Parent (who can't make him): I do not want to get outside authority like the police involved. That would be terrible and might tear our family apart. But I will, if you refuse to obey me.
<etc.>

I understand that there are some hardheaded, obstinate teens who defy their parents to their face. Why their parents put up with it, I can't imagine. If you love the child, you will do what is in his best interest, even if that means he leaves. Some people refuse to learn except by nasty, heartbreaking personal experience. So be it. Better they learn by sad experience than that they don't learn at all.

Thank-you @Vort

Sounds like we agree on the ending state.  But that heated exchange you perfectly described (that began after XYZ was demanded) is i guess what i was alluding to.  

[Guest MormonGator]

Isn't this sort of a moot point? Can I just find these sites on my phone without wi-fi?

[seashmore]

2 hours ago, MormonGator said:

Isn't this sort of a moot point? Can I just find these sites on my phone without wi-fi?

Yes, buuuuuuuttttt.....it eats up your data like Pac Man eats dots.  Fiscally minded adults (and their children with mobile devices) often use wifi because it allows them to keep data available for when there is no wifi available.  So people will be frustrated when they go to use their devices in a way that they probably shouldn't be in a chapel, anyway. 

Bonus: wifi sucks your battery life so less charging will be needed at church.

[NightSG]

15 hours ago, Lost Boy said:

I used to have lots of chores around the house.  Gardening, hauling wood, feeding animals, etc.  Most kids don't have that many chores.  It wasn't like my dad made up stuff for me to do.  They were things that needed to be done.  Most families around here don't have that many things for kids to do.  A new generation and it is only going to get worse with more and more automation.

It's not even automation; back in the day, unless it was to help out a kid in need, you didn't pay someone else to mow your lawn when you had your own kids big enough to reach the mower handle.  Same for any number of other things that people pay to have done now.  I remember going to the store on a single speed bicycle for a few things we needed when I was about 13, (and likely would have been sent long before that, but up to that point we were living 6 miles out of town on a hilly road) but sending a kid these days would probably get the parents investigated for neglect.

Edited May 4, 2018 by NightSG