My girlfriend is conflicted about serving a mission and marrying me

[Guest LiterateParakeet]

14 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

I acknowledge that I said this at early on in our relationship. I am still aware of the stigma surrounding people who haven't served a mission and are in a marital relationship. My intention was to make my girlfriend aware if she wasn't already how I felt about it. I prefer being upfront and honest about my feelings as to not lead people on. Obviously of course, this attitude of mine changed over the course of our relationship. If my girlfriend were to return from a mission, I would hope that she would still be interested in marrying me, someone who by that time likely would have not served a mission. Chances of that happening are of course are next to none so I guess I my faith would be extremely misplaced. I guess the attitude I had those months ago works both ways huh

Even though that was months ago for you, for us, we read it in your post today, so it feels very current.  I think your feelings have changed, but it wasn't quite clear...

[NeuroTypical]

1 hour ago, LatterDSaint said:

I am still aware of the stigma surrounding people who haven't served a mission and are in a marital relationship. 

Um... I didn't serve a mission, and I am in a marital relationship...  Is there some sort of stigma surrounding me?  One would think after 21 years of marriage I might have seen a hint of it by now...

[Guest MormonGator]

3 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Is there some sort of stigma surrounding me?  

It has more to do with your poor hygiene then marital/mission status. 

[LatterDSaint]

45 minutes ago, NeuroTypical said:

Um... I didn't serve a mission, and I am in a marital relationship...  Is there some sort of stigma surrounding me?  One would think after 21 years of marriage I might have seen a hint of it by now...

Are you a male convert?  I probably should have edited it to "stigma surrounding men who haven't served". If you are a male convert then perhaps my perceptions are misguided and although I have come to understand that serving a mission is a priesthood obligation, I do acknowledge that 90% + of male students here at BYU Provo are RMs so its to be expected that there is an additional expectation level for every male member that attends BYU to have served or think about serving.... 

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[LatterDSaint]

38 minutes ago, MormonGator said:

It has more to do with your poor hygiene then marital/mission status. 

How did that loss to Kentucky feel? 😁

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[LatterDSaint]

1 hour ago, LiterateParakeet said:

Even though that was months ago for you, for us, we read it in your post today, so it feels very current.  I think your feelings have changed, but it wasn't quite clear...

I acknowledge this mistake of mine. I should have been more clear about specifically when these conversations took place over the course of our relationship. 

[Latter-Day Marriage]

You are making this WAY more complicated and harder than it needs to be.

There is no church standard about which spouse should or shouldn't be an RM.  If a couple is right for each other, they are right for each other and shouldn't feel like their status of having served or not served a mission changes who they can or should marry.  Drop that idea.

What president Kimball said was right for his day, but that is not how things are now.  Missionary aged priesthood holders are encouraged to serve a mission but it is no longer an obligation.  For women it has never been an obligation, it is something they need to personally decide about with God's guidance.  In general young women were encouraged to not put off marriage for a mission but there are exceptions, and with the reduction in age for sister missionaries that doesn't really apply in most cases anyway.

If she feels God wants her to serve a mission, give her your full support and encourage her to do what God wants.  It doesn't mean you have to break up with her though.  She can still be your girlfriend as she serves a mission if you are willing to wait faithfully for her (however she defines that) and if she would like you to do that.  Just have clear boundaries about what it means to faithfully wait for her.

If waiting for her is something you are not willing to do, then you can have a 'hard break' in the relationship and just be friends for now and perhaps check in with each other after her mission, or if she is ok with it have a 'soft break' where you go on casual dates with other girls looking if there is somebody else you would rather be with, but you don't get romantic with them unless you deiced to make a it a hard break with your missionary.

I recommend you don't try and push her one way or the other, she has to make her choice and if you can honest give her your full support whatever she chooses it makes it easier for her to do the right thing.

[Manners Matter]

17 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Missionary aged priesthood holders are encouraged to serve a mission but it is no longer an obligation. 

Do you have a source for that?

[LatterDSaint]

42 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

Missionary aged priesthood holders are encouraged to serve a mission but it is no longer an obligation. 

I am sure that you are much wiser than myself, but I must ask, from where did you get this from? I may have only been a member for 2 years and a few months but I have not seen any prophet or leader of the church that I have met say anything of a sort to what you wrote here. 

 

42 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

If she feels God wants her to serve a mission, give her your full support and encourage her to do what God wants.  It doesn't mean you have to break up with her though.  She can still be your girlfriend as she serves a mission if you are willing to wait faithfully for her (however she defines that) and if she would like you to do that.  Just have clear boundaries about what it means to faithfully wait for her.

I understand. 

 

42 minutes ago, Latter-Day Marriage said:

I recommend you don't try and push her one way or the other, she has to make her choice and if you can honest give her your full support whatever she chooses it makes it easier for her to do the right thing.

Okay. I will heed your advice because I know that this is what is best.

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[Overwatch]

@LatterDSaint

Just leave her be to do her own thing. You will find another worthy woman no problem when you get home. Go on your mission and serve righteously. However, if you do not want to serve then do not go, It will be worse for you. Going on a mission is a privilege. I saw young men runaway from the mission field and some even come on unworthily. If you are not worthy and or your heart is not in the work your companion will know. It would be better for you to stay and serve in a way more suitable to your disposition and worthiness.

It is said all worthy young men should serve missions. If you are unworthy of a mission do not go. It is an honor to serve the Lord of hosts. It is a blessing to invite others to come unto Christ. If you want it for a vain badge of bachelor status to impress some future or current young lady then I will tell you your heart is in the mud. Get yourself straight and heed the call to work in field and the vineyard. Thrust the sickle and gather the Lord's wheat while there is still daylight. 

The Lord, our King, has many handmaidens. A faithful, lonely, servant will not go unnoticed. He will guide you to a wife suitable for you and you for her. Together you will chip away the rough edges you both have. This may take a while but in due time you will be smooth together and beautiful unto God. You will not regret serving a mission if you serve with all your might, mind and strength. 

[LatterDSaint]

2 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

@LatterDSaint

Just leave her be to do her own thing. You will find another worthy woman no problem when you get home. Go on your mission and serve righteously. However, if you do not want to serve then do not go, It will be worse for you. Going on a mission is a privilege. I saw young men runaway from the mission field and some even come on unworthily. If you are not worthy and or your heart is not in the work your companion will know. It would be better for you to stay and serve in a way more suitable to your disposition and worthiness.

It is said all worthy young men should serve missions. If you are unworthy of a mission do not go. It is an honor to serve the Lord of hosts. It is a blessing to invite others to come unto Christ. If you want it for a vain badge of bachelor status to impress some future or current young lady then I will tell you your heart is in the mud. Get yourself straight and heed the call to work in field and the vineyard. Thrust the sickle and gather the Lord's wheat while there is still daylight. 

The Lord, our King, has many handmaidens. A faithful, lonely, servant will not go unnoticed. He will guide you to a wife suitable for you and you for her. Together you will chip away the rough edges you both have. This may take a while but in due time you will be smooth together and beautiful unto God. You will not regret serving a mission if you serve with all your might, mind and strength. 

ahhh so my perception that those who do not serve will be condemned has been confirmed. "Going on a mission is a privilege" Going on a mission brings great blessings to ones life, but I believe this is the case if they served their two years honorably and did their best to serve the lord rather than to serve some purpose they left behind back home. 

5 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

If you are not worthy and or your heart is not in the work your companion will know. It would be better for you to stay and serve in a way more suitable to your disposition and worthiness.

it seems we are on the same page here. Still amazed at your outright condemnation for someone who has not served a mission. 

 

6 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

It will be worse for you

Perhaps you meant, I will miss out on the blessings that come with serving a mission. This I would be able to understand more than what you said. 

 

7 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

It is a blessing to invite others to come unto Christ. If you want it for a vain badge of bachelor status to impress some future or current young lady then I will tell you your heart is in the mud.

agreed 

9 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

Together you will chip away the rough edges you both have. This may take a while but in due time you will be smooth together and beautiful unto God.

So in effect you are telling me that my wife will be someone who I probably do not want to marry but over time I will learn to love and only that will make us perfect in the eyes of the Lord? It's an interesting perspective. 

I want to ask you a question. I would appreciate what your response would be. If I were to marry an atheist, would you still stand by your message of smoothing out the rough edges etc?

Also brother, what if I want to serve but I am currently limited due to immigration status. I don't know if I will definitely marry in the next year or two but if I do (to another women) would you believe that I would be condemned regardless of letting this one woman still on my mind go and marrying another?

[Guest MormonGator]

11 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

How did that loss to Kentucky feel? 😁

lol! Brutal. 

[Overwatch]

8 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

Perhaps you meant, I will miss out on the blessings that come with serving a mission. This I would be able to understand more than what you said. 

 

No, I mean you will be miserable and so will your companion and quite possibly the people you attempt to teach will not feel the spirit

8 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

ahhh so my perception that those who do not serve will be condemned has been confirmed

Serving a mission is a privilege, period. Only your choices can condemn you before God. Only you know your thoughts and intentions to the exact. You don't need my validation but I will give my opinion, serving a mission will bring others and you joy.

8 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

seems we are on the same page here. Still amazed at your outright condemnation for someone who has not served a mission. 

What are you getting at? You either want to serve or you don't. A lot of latter-day saint women see the good and take pride in missionary work. Don't you believe it is an important work to do?

8 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

So in effect you are telling me that my wife will be someone who I probably do not want to marry but over time I will learn to love and only that will make us perfect in the eyes of the Lord? 

Smh. No, meaning you both will be imperfect.

I have more to write, about to enter a meeting. Will finish in a bit.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Overwatch

[anatess2]

9 hours ago, LatterDSaint said:

I am sure that you are much wiser than myself, but I must ask, from where did you get this from? I may have only been a member for 2 years and a few months but I have not seen any prophet or leader of the church that I have met say anything of a sort to what you wrote here. 

I agree with you there. 

But, as things are... not all men can serve missions even as they strive to be eligible.  My husband did not serve a mission because he became inactive at 17 and did not come back to Church until he got engaged to be married.  My husband's testimony of the Church and of Eternal Marriage has grown solid as a rock which enabled him to become a great husband and father.  The prophet Thomas Monson did not serve a full-time mission as a young man as he went and joined the military instead.  He served as mission president after he got out of the military and his testimony on missions is that much greater.

To say that a young woman should only marry RM's -well, that's up to the woman and should not be your yardstick.  YOUR yardstick should be - How Can I Serve the Lord with all that I am?  Serving the Lord so you can score a wife is an okay reason but you should strive for a better reason than that.  Just because you are ineligible to serve a full-time mission doesn't mean that you can't be a missionary.  We are all called to be everyday missionaries.  And your honest and humble and diligent desire to serve God will thus shine.  And if a woman doesn't see that as worthy for an eternal companion then it is her loss, not yours.  That just gives you an important clue on the woman that she is which might not be a good one to be married to as she doesn't see you, an honest, humble, and diligent servant of the Lord, as worthy of her affections.

Edited September 13, 2018 by anatess2

[LatterDSaint]

35 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

No, I mean you will be miserable and so will your companion and quite possibly the people you attempt to teach will not feel the spirit

How do you know this?? I have seen many posts on here involving RM's who have come back, gotten married and either one of them appear to have just as much potential as a non missionary to be miserable. In short is your reasoning "Married and served a mission= great perfect life free of problems. Married and not served a mission= imperfect hellish marital relationship. The idea that a marriage cannot be fulfilled without serving a mission is foreign to me. Does anyone else share the same view? I find this slightly questionable... and take note, ideally my marital relationship would be with and RM whilst being an RM myself. This I cannot deny would be the most ideal marital relationship for every member of the church.

 

29 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

To say that a young woman should only marry RM's -well, that's up to the woman and should not be your yardstick

 I think Overwatch might disagree

 

35 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

Serving a mission is a privilege, period.

You did not confirm no deny that I (if I do not serve a mission) will be condemned as well as my hypothetical non RM/RM wife. Perhaps you could confirm or deny this rather than cower away?

35 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

What are you getting at? You either want to serve or you don't. A lot of latter-day saint women see the good and take pride in missionary work. Don't you believe it is an important work to do?

I most definitely believe that it is important work but you appear to believe that it is the be all end all for our salvation....

 

35 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

No, meaning you both will be imperfect.

My Bishop allowed me to understand that those who look upon others as "imperfect" in the Church probably did not get the most out of their mission. Isn't it supposed to open your heart and be more understanding of each individual situation rather than outright shaming people for not conforming to our ideals? Of course I understand that those that do not serve will be missing out but this isnt the message I am getting from your posts at all....

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[LatterDSaint]

25 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

That just gives you an important clue on the woman that she is which might not be a good one to be married to as she doesn't see you, an honest, humble, and diligent servant of the Lord, as worthy of her affections.

Ill let you know this. My girlfriend did see all these things in me about a month ago even after she decided she wanted to serve a mission. Up until recently, she never saw President Kimball's speech about young able bodied men who have been commanded by the Lord to serve a mission. Our discussion about this speech alone is what led to our mutual break up

[anatess2]

14 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

Ill let you know this. My girlfriend did see all these things in me about a month ago even after she decided she wanted to serve a mission. Up until recently, she never saw President Kimball's speech about young able bodied men who have been commanded by the Lord to serve a mission. Our discussion about this speech alone is what led to our mutual break up

So... let me ask you... why are you not going on a mission?

[Overwatch]

43 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

You did not confirm no deny that I (if I do not serve a mission) will be condemned as well as my hypothetical non RM/RM wife. Perhaps you could confirm or deny this rather than cower away?

Where is this hostility coming from? I already edited my response earlier. Scroll up and read.

[Overwatch]

48 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

My Bishop allowed me to understand that those who look upon others as "imperfect" in the Church probably did not get the most out of their mission. Isn't it supposed to open your heart and be more understanding of each individual situation rather than outright shaming people for not conforming to our ideals? Of course I understand that those that do not serve will be missing out but this isnt the message I am getting from your posts at all

You are imperfect son. I would tell that to your face if you were in my presence. You are taking the truth to be hard. You seem to want to validate not going on a mission and ironically it appears you are condemning women who prefer to marry returned missionaries.

[Overwatch]

50 minutes ago, LatterDSaint said:

How do you know this?? I have seen many posts on here involving RM's who have come back, gotten married and either one of them appear to have just as much potential as a non missionary to be miserable. In short is your reasoning "Married and served a mission= great perfect life free of problems. Married and not served a mission= imperfect hellish marital relationship. The idea that a marriage cannot be fulfilled without serving a mission is foreign to me. Does anyone else share the same view? I find this slightly questionable... and take note, ideally my marital relationship would be with and RM whilst being an RM myself. This I cannot deny would be the most ideal marital relationship for every member of the church

You perhaps need to slow down and read context. You would be miserable as a missionary if you didn't want to be on a mission. You would be miserable and so would your mission companion if he wasn't able to uplift your spirit enough to be effective missionaries. 

[LatterDSaint]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

So... let me ask you... why are you not going on a mission?

I think it may have been answered before but I will repeat it again. I have since assumed when I started college in America that the Church cannot make adjustments to my visa to accommodate serving a full time mission for two years. From the outcome of my talk with my Bishop, it appears that he does not believe such circumstances can be met either...

Graduation is my focus and up until now, honoring the woman who I truly felt could be  my spouse was also my focus. It appears that the second focus has diminished some, and I believe truly that this was in the Lord's will. There are things that have convinced me that if we were to remain together over the next few months, our relationship and livelihood would crumble in its entirety. Focusing on this has given solace over the past two days.

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[LatterDSaint]

30 minutes ago, Overwatch said:

You are taking the truth to be hard. You seem to want to validate not going on a mission

Your perception is false. You are however contradicting the message of my Bishop. I take issue with this. You also appear to have this complex that you are the ultimate truth bearer. It is slightly disturbing. Serving a mission should be a decision between me and the Lord no? It appears that you are intent on shaming me if I have any reluctant feelings about serving which admittedly I do. I find this disturbing also....

Edited September 13, 2018 by LatterDSaint

[JohnsonJones]

This is going to sound odd...but you quoted

Quote

The question is asked: Should every young man fill a mission? And the answer of the Church is yes, and the answer of the Lord is yes. Enlarging this answer we say: Certainly every male member of the Church should fill a mission, like he should pay his tithing, like he should attend his meetings, like he should keep his life clean and free from the ugliness of the world and plan a celestial marriage in the temple of the Lord” (Spencer W. Kimball, “Planning for a Full and Abundant Life”, Ensign, May 1974, 86).

Is she a MAN???

That would be odd.  If she is not a MAN or a MALE you probably should point this out to her.  Using this as a commandment that a young woman should serve a mission is ridiculous.

At the time this advice was given the advice to young women was that they, if possible, should remain home and be home makers and mothers.

Multiple talks were given at the time about women being mothers and that this was the most important calling.

Young women previously were NOT allowed to go on missions at the same age as young men (and they still aren't though the age gap has narrowed).  This was to provide opportunity for them to date and marry if they so desired.  A mission was NOT something they were actively encouraged to go on, and if they had the chance to be married, then they should choose marriage before a mission.  A mission was for those who wanted to go and normally had not gotten married or had the opportunity at that point.  Normally, during those years if a woman came to a Bishop and asked if they should marry such and such who had proposed or go on a mission, it was advised to get married.

That said, TIMES HAVE CHANGED.  Things are different and our approach to things has also changed.

You have been in a relationship for less than six months.  That may seem long to you, but in the overall scheme of things, that is NOT a long time.  Support her and her choices and hopefully you will have her support your choices.  If things are not going to work out, pray and have faith in the Lord that eventually you will be blessed.

To you, rather than looking to get married, I WOULD ADVISE YOU to go on a mission.  I would put going on a mission above going to college, above going to a university and above all other measures at your point in life currently.  Don't wait, just go as soon as possible.

If the advice given by President Kimball above is for anyone, it is NOT for her, but FOR YOU.  It says, ALL MALE MEMBERS of the Church should fill a mission.  At your age and what you've told me, that sounds like you fit that description.  I'd run, not walk, to fill out your mission papers and go on that mission as soon as possible.

[Overwatch]

1 minute ago, LatterDSaint said:

Your perception is false. You are however contradicting the message of my Bishop. I take issue with this. You also appear to have this complex that you are the ultimate truth bearer. It is slightly disturbing. Serving a mission should be a decision between me and the Lord no? It appears that you are intent on shaming me if I have any reluctant feelings about serving. I find this disturbing also....

I am doing nothing of the sort. You are chossing to take offense for me saying serving a mission is a privilege and an honor. 

[LatterDSaint]

Just now, JohnsonJones said:

I would put going on a mission above going to college, above going to a university and above all other measures at your point in life currently.  Don't wait, just go as soon as possible.

Drop out of college to serve a mission and fail to obtain graduating from BYU? Hmmmmm I guess I'll give this some thought.....

 

2 minutes ago, JohnsonJones said:

If the advice given by President Kimball above is for anyone, it is NOT for her, but FOR YOU.  It says, ALL MALE MEMBERS of the Church should fill a mission.  At your age and what you've told me, that sounds like you fit that description.  I'd run, not walk, to fill out your mission papers and go on that mission as soon as possible.

This is EXACTLY what we were discussing right before we mutually split. Every detail you have written here is the foundation on which led us to separate a few days ago.....