I am so angry right now

[zil]

15 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

measurable constant

Erm, imperial / English / whatever inches are called is also a measurable constant.  Every "standardized" unit of measure on the planet is, by definition, an arbitrary standard established by man, and is based on a measurable constant held by some organization (like NIST).

NOTE: I'm mostly having fun in this thread.  Humans are way too anal and emotionally attached to all this stuff.

[anatess2]

Just now, zil said:

Erm, imperial / English / whatever inches are called is also a measurable constant.  Every "standardized" unit of measure on the planet is, by definition, an arbitrary standard established by man, and is based on a measurable constant held by some organization (like NIST).

NOTE: I'm mostly having fun in this thread.  Humans are way too anal and emotionally attached to all this stuff.

Yes.  Units of measures like Standard or Customary Measures used in the US (which Americans - funny people that they are - mistakenly call English/Imperial measures which are completely different) as well as Metric measurements are based on a CONSTANT - the measurement doesn't change at all.  Datetime is NOT a Constant - the earth's orbit is lengthening by increments.  Hence the SI measurement of seconds is not based on the earth's rotation but radiation which is constant.

[zil]

4 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Hence the SI measurement of seconds is not based on the earth's rotation but radiation which is constant.

Ah, got it (wasn't sure which thing you were referring to as a measurable constant).  Meanwhile, we chose (arbitrarily) which radiation to use as our measurable constant (I'm guessing if one radiation is constant - something which I personally don't know is / is not true, then there's probably another radiation which is also constant).  Thus, all these things are, in one way or another, arbitrary.

Maybe I'll change my login name to zilbitrary.  If only I had UPDATE rights on the forum's database.

Edited October 16, 2018 by zil
Bad bracketing.

[anatess2]

Just now, zil said:

Ah, got it (wasn't sure which thing you were referring to as a measurable constant).  Meanwhile, we chose (arbitrarily) which radiation to use as our measurable constant (I'm guessing if one radiation is constant - something which I personally don't know is / is not true), then there's probably another radiation which is also constant.  Thus, all these things are, in one way or another, arbitrary.

Maybe I'll change my login name to zilbitrary.  If only I had UPDATE rights on the forum's database.

Yes, it's arbitrary what the French decided equals a gram, a meter, etc.  That's why they had to make 6 of those measurement things so if one falls to the sea, there are 5 more like it.  But once standardized, the measurement can be replicated ad infinitum because it's a constant and there's no disagreement on which measurement is up to standard.

[estradling75]

3 minutes ago, zil said:

Maybe I'll change my login name to zilbitrary.  If only I had UPDATE rights on the forum's database.

Your wish can be granted if you know the right people...  Because some of us do have update rights 

[zil]

3 hours ago, estradling75 said:

Because some of us do have update rights

On the database.  As in SQL.  As in:

UPDATE usersTable

SET userId = 'zilbritrary'

WHERE userId = 'zil'

(PS: I sure hope they're protected against SQL injection, or that my table/field names are wrong.)

[mordorbund]

48 minutes ago, zil said:

On the database.  As in SQL.  As in:

UPDATE usersTable

SET userId = 'zilbritrary'

WHERE userId = 'zil'

(PS: I sure hope they're protected against SQL injection, or that my table/field names are wrong.)

Obligatory

[NightSG]

On 10/15/2018 at 7:22 AM, MarginOfError said:

strictly speaking, it was done in metric, with the computers doing the work to convert it to the stupid units for operator convenience.

Strictly speaking, the calculations were done in binary, which then had to be converted to either of the other systems. 

[cdw3423]

17 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Strictly speaking, the calculations were done in binary, which then had to be converted to either of the other systems. 

As they are done in binary, decimal numbers can have round off error, as it is not possible to exactly represent a number like 1.1 in binary.  However, fractions like 1/2, 3/4, 15/32 and so forth can all be exactly represented in binary.  Of course that is only true if the denominator is a power of 2.

[zil]

1 minute ago, cdw3423 said:

Of course that is only true if the denominator is a power of 2.

Otherwise known as a power of 10.  There go those metric people, trying to sneak in under the radar!

[MarginOfError]

54 minutes ago, NightSG said:

Strictly speaking, the calculations were done in binary, which then had to be converted to either of the other systems. 

Well played, sir!

[askandanswer]

1 hour ago, cdw3423 said:

As they are done in binary, decimal numbers can have round off error, as it is not possible to exactly represent a number like 1.1 in binary.  

And would the size of any rounding error still be within an acceptable @MarginOfError? 

[cdw3423]

15 minutes ago, askandanswer said:

And would the size of any rounding error still be within an acceptable @MarginOfError

I think that would depend on just how agreeable @MarginOfError is to the acceptableness of the size of the error. 

[JohnsonJones]

8 hours ago, anatess2 said:

It may be arbitrary but that arbitrary thing is based on a measurable constant.  Date-time on the other hand is not only arbitrary,  but also the arbitrary thing it is based on is not measurably constant, hence the challenge.

It may not be constant, but a sun dial still seems to work for telling time.

[anatess2]

14 hours ago, JohnsonJones said:

It may not be constant, but a sun dial still seems to work for telling time.

Actually, it doesn't.  It only works when there's sun.  So, in the Philippines, you get between 11-13 hours of use of that sun dial everyday.  In Alaska, good luck.

[jerome1232]

2 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Actually, it doesn't.  It only works when there's sun.  So, in the Philippines, you get between 11-13 hours of use of that sun dial everyday.  In Alaska, good luck.

Well, in Alaska it would work between 0 and 24 hours a day. I think there's a total of three days where the sun never sets. You are golden for those three days.

 

Random thought, wouldn't a sundial not work very well super close to the equator, since the sun isn't very offset to the north or south there, the shadow on the sundial wouldn't really go around, it would just point at 3 or 9 and the shadow would be short or long. Hmmmm.

[anatess2]

1 minute ago, jerome1232 said:

Well, in Alaska it would work between 0 and 24 hours a day. I think there's a total of three days where the sun never sets. You are golden for those three days.

 

Random thought, wouldn't a sundial not work very well super close to the equator, since the sun isn't very offset to the north or south there, the shadow on the sundial wouldn't really go around, it would just point at 3 or 9 and the shadow would be short or long. Hmmmm.

Sun dials in the Philippines are not "round".  Rather, they are linear.  So, the very first known sun dial ever used in the Philippines is a half circle standing up and the dial tilted southward:

 

This is the one in the Philippine Military Academy:

[jerome1232]

23 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

Sun dials in the Philippines are not "round".  Rather, they are linear.  So, the very first known sun dial ever used in the Philippines is a half circle standing up and the dial tilted southward:

 

This is the one in the Philippine Military Academy:

That makes a lot of sense!

[dahlia]

On 10/14/2018 at 7:49 PM, Carborendum said:

Interesting story.

My professor of Dynamics (laws of motion) said that women were to blame for non-metric units and calling our weight instead of mass.

A rather slender woman of 125 lbs would have to say they weigh 556 newtons.  No woman wants to call that out.

And we call out force rather than mass because no woman wants to tell people that she just gave birth to a quarter of a slug.

I'm reading this after reading the thread about calling women 'ladies' and still sorting out my thoughts.

No time needed for this one, tho - what a sexist pig! I can't imagine being a woman in a STEM field in college, and having to sit in class with men while the professor made fun of women and weight.

This reminds me of a radio interview I heard regarding the first space shuttle flight. The interviewee was talking about the large cargo area, which was necessary because they were planning to have women astronauts. WT flying F? Thankfully, the reporter pulled it back and said something about the women not having anymore luggage than the men, but jeez Louise....  If they guy had said there would be hydroponic gardens to grow watermelons for the black astronauts, I wouldn't have been more shocked.

I was in a criminal law class where the prof's examples were always rape or a crime against women, with a lot of detail. Folks went right to the dean on that one - and that was decades ago. No one wants to sit in class and be the butt of some sexist's or racist's 'jokes.' Of course, their response to complaints is that they were just joking and that (insert name of offended group) are just too sensitive, but to heck with them. Complain anyway; otherwise nothing changes. 

[anatess2]

12 hours ago, dahlia said:

I'm reading this after reading the thread about calling women 'ladies' and still sorting out my thoughts.

No time needed for this one, tho - what a sexist pig! I can't imagine being a woman in a STEM field in college, and having to sit in class with men while the professor made fun of women and weight.

This reminds me of a radio interview I heard regarding the first space shuttle flight. The interviewee was talking about the large cargo area, which was necessary because they were planning to have women astronauts. WT flying F? Thankfully, the reporter pulled it back and said something about the women not having anymore luggage than the men, but jeez Louise....  If they guy had said there would be hydroponic gardens to grow watermelons for the black astronauts, I wouldn't have been more shocked.

I was in a criminal law class where the prof's examples were always rape or a crime against women, with a lot of detail. Folks went right to the dean on that one - and that was decades ago. No one wants to sit in class and be the butt of some sexist's or racist's 'jokes.' Of course, their response to complaints is that they were just joking and that (insert name of offended group) are just too sensitive, but to heck with them. Complain anyway; otherwise nothing changes. 

 

Men joke about women.  Women joke about men.  Brunettes joke about Blondes and Redheads.  Everybody joke about the Polish.

Part of life.  We dish out what we get.  But yeah, women release emotions by crying at the world.  Men release emotions by laughing at the world.  So it's mostly men who employ jokes and sarcasm in serious situations.  That's how men can risk life and limb and put women and children first in the boats because they have the capacity to joke while sinking into the Atlantic. 

But if it's not a joke (even if it's based on a statistical majority like the way I constructed that statement in the previous paragraph), complain away...  then you can get everybody to consider the minority side of statistics or the ones willing to defy their own instincts.  In any case, that's how you get rid of bad comedians. 

 

Edited October 19, 2018 by anatess2

[Guest]

18 hours ago, dahlia said:

I'm reading this after reading the thread about calling women 'ladies' and still sorting out my thoughts.

No time needed for this one, tho - what a sexist pig! I can't imagine being a woman in a STEM field in college, and having to sit in class with men while the professor made fun of women and weight.

Interesting.  There was a girl seated right beside me at the time.  She and I both looked at each other and rolled our eyes at the Newton joke.  But she was still smiling.  When he went on to the slug, she laughed louder than I did.

Yes, times have changed.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Guest

[Vort]

18 hours ago, dahlia said:

I can't imagine being a woman in a STEM field in college, and having to sit in class with men while the professor made fun of women and weight.

To be fair, he was not making fun of women about their weight. He was teasing women for being sensitive about their weight, making a joke about female vanity. I think it's in poor taste and frankly just not very funny. But if we're going to prohibit "women are so vain" jokes, let's also get rid of the sexist, gallingly unfunny "men are so stupid" jokes, at least in a classroom setting. I think that sounds like a pretty good idea.

As for the birth thing...well, that's just silliness. It's sort of offensive in a gross-out way to sensitive souls, and again, I think it's in poor taste, but I don't think it reasonably qualifies as sexist.

[Vort]

6 hours ago, anatess2 said:

Everybody joke about the Polish.

Never quite understood Polish (or "Polack") jokes. From what I can tell, these are brilliant, hard-working people who have produced more than their fair share of Nobel Prize winners and such. Polish immigrants came to the US and within a generation or two established themselves. As far as I know, they didn't demand accommodations such as Polish-speaking public school teachers or start violent social movements because they thought they weren't being treated as well as they deserved. What's to make fun of?

[dahlia]

22 hours ago, Vort said:

To be fair, he was not making fun of women about their weight. He was teasing women for being sensitive about their weight, making a joke about female vanity. I think it's in poor taste and frankly just not very funny. But if we're going to prohibit "women are so vain" jokes, let's also get rid of the sexist, gallingly unfunny "men are so stupid" jokes, at least in a classroom setting. I think that sounds like a pretty good idea.

I was a professor in a woman-dominated field. I am also the proud mother of a male. I frequently had to prohibit the "men are so stupid" jokes/comments that would come up in class. They don't get to speak that way about men in my presence. 

[dahlia]

On 10/19/2018 at 11:01 AM, anatess2 said:

 

Men joke about women.  Women joke about men.  Brunettes joke about Blondes and Redheads.  Everybody joke about the Polish.

Part of life.  We dish out what we get.  But yeah, women release emotions by crying at the world.  Men release emotions by laughing at the world.  So it's mostly men who employ jokes and sarcasm in serious situations.  That's how men can risk life and limb and put women and children first in the boats because they have the capacity to joke while sinking into the Atlantic. 

But if it's not a joke (even if it's based on a statistical majority like the way I constructed that statement in the previous paragraph), complain away...  then you can get everybody to consider the minority side of statistics or the ones willing to defy their own instincts.  In any case, that's how you get rid of bad comedians. 

 

I don't know about you, but I don't joke about rape too much. It's just a thing with me.

It's easy to say we all joke about each other. Yeah, probably.  But keep that stuff out of the workplace and the classroom.